Difference between male and female autism?

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Rascal77s
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03 May 2012, 10:59 pm

Verdandi wrote:
It seems downright bizarre to me the way so many men online seem to think they have a claim of ownership over "video gaming" for example.



Oh all right, you can have video games. But the grill is off limits.



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03 May 2012, 11:16 pm

There are definitely some women here with extreme male brains, and "male" autism.

But I agree, I've read about different ways it can manifest depending on both prenatal hormone exposure and hemispheric dominance.

It's said that Apies who are right hemisphere dominant tend to be more creative and fantasy based, this is true of humans in general. A lot of Aspie women present this way and are more outwardly emotional but may still have difficulty understanding the emotions and intentions of others.

So at first glance they may appear to be the opposite of classic Asperger's but underneath the surface it's the same disorder.

SBC also gets into 2D4D ratio, he hypothesized that most women on the spectrum would have the male ratio but was wrong. I have the male ratio (NT) but many Aspie women had the extreme female ratio.


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03 May 2012, 11:29 pm

edgewaters wrote:
EstherJ wrote:
I just don't fit the stereotyped model for the way my culture thinks girls should talk/dress/act/work/be. Don't get it wrong - I'm very secure in the fact that I'm female and NOT male, but I don't fit the stereotype. I FEEL more neutral.


Male here but I get exactly the same feeling. I don't care if I don't fit the stereotype, I don't fight against it but I don't try to conform to it either. It seems childish to do either of those things. I also find that I'm repelled by very exaggerated expressions of masculinity/femininity.


I agree with both of you. I've never tried to fit in or actively rebel against gender norms. I scored in the male range on the brain gender tests but not extremely male.

I tend to attract more male friends than female. I'm not masculine in appearance, I guess in attitude I am but I have no issues with "girl" things. I like some things that are feminine.

If 1 is extremely feminine and 10 is extremely masculine I'd be 5. Almost identifying as male in my own mind, but not.


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Verdandi
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04 May 2012, 12:00 am

Rascal77s wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
It seems downright bizarre to me the way so many men online seem to think they have a claim of ownership over "video gaming" for example.



Oh all right, you can have video games. But the grill is off limits.


It's too late for that, my sister uses the grill all the time.



Rascal77s
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04 May 2012, 12:27 am

Verdandi wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
It seems downright bizarre to me the way so many men online seem to think they have a claim of ownership over "video gaming" for example.



Oh all right, you can have video games. But the grill is off limits.


It's too late for that, my sister uses the grill all the time.


Blasphemy!! !



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04 May 2012, 12:37 am

Rascal77s wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
It seems downright bizarre to me the way so many men online seem to think they have a claim of ownership over "video gaming" for example.



Oh all right, you can have video games. But the grill is off limits.


It's too late for that, my sister uses the grill all the time.


Blasphemy!! !


I enjoy my tasty blasphemy.

But seriously: Isn't it strange how cooking is viewed as a "female" thing, but barbecue is viewed as a "male" thing? Aren't they both basically the same thing, just through different methods and different dishes?



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04 May 2012, 12:46 am

Verdandi wrote:
But seriously: Isn't it strange how cooking is viewed as a "female" thing, but barbecue is viewed as a "male" thing? Aren't they both basically the same thing, just through different methods and different dishes?


No, totally different. You see, grilling outdoors over FIRE goes back to the caveman days. The male brain is programmed to grill, it's our link to nature and our ancestors in these more 'civilized' times.



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04 May 2012, 1:02 am

Rascal77s wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
But seriously: Isn't it strange how cooking is viewed as a "female" thing, but barbecue is viewed as a "male" thing? Aren't they both basically the same thing, just through different methods and different dishes?


No, totally different. You see, grilling outdoors over FIRE goes back to the caveman days. The male brain is programmed to grill, it's our link to nature and our ancestors in these more 'civilized' times.


This sounds like hilarious machismo, but seriously, it doesn't really mean much. I don't believe human brains are programmed to use specific tools in specific ways, and I don't really believe that male and female brains are structured all that differently. If there's some atavistic urge to set things on fire and cook meat over it for 12 hours, why would it only appear in male brains instead of female brains, given that we're all made of the same stuff? Am I overthinking a funny joke? Where's Isaiah Mustafa when you need him?

It's also the same with chefs: Cooking is supposed to be a female thing, but being a chef is a male thing.



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04 May 2012, 2:09 am

Guineapigged wrote:
Do you know Simon Baron-Cohen? (He's the guy who wrote the AQ test, and loads of other popular books about autism). He has written a book called "The Essential Difference" which addresses the difference between male and female brains and how it all links in with autism. I've only skimmed through the book so I can't really give you any more detail than that, but I from what I've read it was very interesting. (E.g., female brains tend to be stronger at empathising and male brains stronger at systemizing, which is why male autistics have a higher rate of fact-based special interests and females a higher rate of social-based special interests.)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Essential-D ... 0713996714

It's all a matter of socialisation, isn't it? Girls are taught girly things and boys get to do the male stuff. I also liked playing with cars and bricks as a child, which enables me to understand things only males are supposedly able to do.

If you let your son read a lot of books, he'll be more likely to empathize.

I know this is a really old debate, but there's more and more proof that it's really a matter of how you raise your child.

It's also a bit misleading because female autistics are said to perform badly at "female" tasks. The same goes for male autistics. They're probably not really good at sports - which is supposedly something men are good at.

I don't know what's interesting about being told what "you already know". Well, men and women are different after all, even if they are autistic.

Verdandi wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
It seems downright bizarre to me the way so many men online seem to think they have a claim of ownership over "video gaming" for example.



Oh all right, you can have video games. But the grill is off limits.


It's too late for that, my sister uses the grill all the time.


Blasphemy!! !


I enjoy my tasty blasphemy.

But seriously: Isn't it strange how cooking is viewed as a "female" thing, but barbecue is viewed as a "male" thing? Aren't they both basically the same thing, just through different methods and different dishes?

Cooking is a female thing as long as it takes place in the domestic domain.

In the public domain - yes, also barbecue - but also in restaurants, men do the cooking. Because they're in charge.

Remember "Ratatouille"? Yes.

It's funny how some things never change.


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04 May 2012, 2:16 am

EXPECIALLY wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
EstherJ wrote:
I just don't fit the stereotyped model for the way my culture thinks girls should talk/dress/act/work/be. Don't get it wrong - I'm very secure in the fact that I'm female and NOT male, but I don't fit the stereotype. I FEEL more neutral.


Male here but I get exactly the same feeling. I don't care if I don't fit the stereotype, I don't fight against it but I don't try to conform to it either. It seems childish to do either of those things. I also find that I'm repelled by very exaggerated expressions of masculinity/femininity.


I agree with both of you. I've never tried to fit in or actively rebel against gender norms. I scored in the male range on the brain gender tests but not extremely male.

I tend to attract more male friends than female. I'm not masculine in appearance, I guess in attitude I am but I have no issues with "girl" things. I like some things that are feminine.

If 1 is extremely feminine and 10 is extremely masculine I'd be 5. Almost identifying as male in my own mind, but not.

I also scored 50% male on the brain test.

Isn't this what we're aiming for? Doing things because we like them, not because they're associated with a certain gender. Most people don't do that. Guys like cars, girls like shopping.

But unless you rebel against gender norms, there's no changing that. Actually, by doing "male" things you do rebel against the gender norms because it often is more of a subtle and personal thing.

What I really hate though is that you can do whatever you want, but as soon as you attend a public event you have to dress up and then you can't avoid the gender norms. And people will look at you strangely if you don't dress according to your assigned gender.

Rascal77s wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
But seriously: Isn't it strange how cooking is viewed as a "female" thing, but barbecue is viewed as a "male" thing? Aren't they both basically the same thing, just through different methods and different dishes?


No, totally different. You see, grilling outdoors over FIRE goes back to the caveman days. The male brain is programmed to grill, it's our link to nature and our ancestors in these more 'civilized' times.

To be precise, men did the hunting because they were disposable. I don't know where that went these days...

Women stayed back in the cave with the kids and taking care of the food because they had to secure the offspring.


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Verdandi
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04 May 2012, 2:16 am

TheHouseholdCat wrote:
Cooking is a female thing as long as it takes place in the domestic domain.

In the public domain - yes, also barbecue - but also in restaurants, men do the cooking. Because they're in charge.

Remember "Ratatouille"? Yes.

It's funny how some things never change.


I've never seen Ratatouille. However, I do see your argument - it's about unearned/assumed authority and expectations.



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04 May 2012, 2:31 am

TheHouseholdCat wrote:
EXPECIALLY wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
EstherJ wrote:
I just don't fit the stereotyped model for the way my culture thinks girls should talk/dress/act/work/be. Don't get it wrong - I'm very secure in the fact that I'm female and NOT male, but I don't fit the stereotype. I FEEL more neutral.


Male here but I get exactly the same feeling. I don't care if I don't fit the stereotype, I don't fight against it but I don't try to conform to it either. It seems childish to do either of those things. I also find that I'm repelled by very exaggerated expressions of masculinity/femininity.


I agree with both of you. I've never tried to fit in or actively rebel against gender norms. I scored in the male range on the brain gender tests but not extremely male.

I tend to attract more male friends than female. I'm not masculine in appearance, I guess in attitude I am but I have no issues with "girl" things. I like some things that are feminine.

If 1 is extremely feminine and 10 is extremely masculine I'd be 5. Almost identifying as male in my own mind, but not.

I also scored 50% male on the brain test.

Isn't this what we're aiming for? Doing things because we like them, not because they're associated with a certain gender. Most people don't do that. Guys like cars, girls like shopping.

But unless you rebel against gender norms, there's no changing that. Actually, by doing "male" things you do rebel against the gender norms because it often is more of a subtle and personal thing.

What I really hate though is that you can do whatever you want, but as soon as you attend a public event you have to dress up and then you can't avoid the gender norms. And people will look at you strangely if you don't dress according to your assigned gender.


Well I really did score as "male" but they didn't ask many personal questions. There are a few different tests. Identifying patterns, different angles, etc.

I'm actually spatially ret*d so if I scored as "male" on those areas it'd be odd because men are supposed to have better spatial relation.

But meh. Honestly I don't like many "male" things. Most of male friends have had more androgynous interests too(granted they weren't considered "manly" men by any stretch of the imagination).


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04 May 2012, 2:48 am

EXPECIALLY wrote:
Well I really did score as "male" but they didn't ask many personal questions. There are a few different tests. Identifying patterns, different angles, etc.

I'm actually spatially ret*d so if I scored as "male" on those areas it'd be odd because men are supposed to have better spatial relation.

But meh. Honestly I don't like many "male" things. Most of male friends have had more androgynous interests too(granted they weren't considered "manly" men by any stretch of the imagination).

I scored really well on the spatial part of the test I did. Which is really odd. Because I usually can't do that. :lol:

I don't like things the way I am supposed to like them, if that makes sense.

I like football in a pretty girly sense. You know... To me, it's not about the players or anything, but I see some real beauty in the concept of the sport. It's not supposed to be beautiful. It's a rational sport that is about technique, while at the same time the players get really emotional.

Or take... shopping. I like shopping, but not for clothes. Stationery is what I love. Books, pens, anything. It's not exactly a male interest either, but there seems to be something more rational about it. Because men have rational interests.

Well, their interests are not rational, but the areas where they come from. If you collect trains or stamps... There still is a rational aspect about that.

With clothes... I'm not sure about that one. Most people would say that clothes are important for a girl so she knows how to dress well, but if you shop too much you're still blamed for it.

I guess female interests are supposedly more superficial as well. I don't know how collecting trains or cleaning your car will help you in life, but that's how you're supposed to see things.

My interests mean a lot to me. I don't feel people have the right to judge my interests as wrong. What's so bad about being genuinely interested in music and art and literature?

As a woman, you have to love poetry. I think it's the dullest of all literary genres. I don't mind poetry, but I don't want it to be forced into me. My favourite poems are less poetic anyway. I don't like flowery poetry. About trees and flowers and bees.


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edgewaters
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04 May 2012, 2:59 am

EXPECIALLY wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
EstherJ wrote:
I just don't fit the stereotyped model for the way my culture thinks girls should talk/dress/act/work/be. Don't get it wrong - I'm very secure in the fact that I'm female and NOT male, but I don't fit the stereotype. I FEEL more neutral.


Male here but I get exactly the same feeling. I don't care if I don't fit the stereotype, I don't fight against it but I don't try to conform to it either. It seems childish to do either of those things. I also find that I'm repelled by very exaggerated expressions of masculinity/femininity.


I agree with both of you. I've never tried to fit in or actively rebel against gender norms. I scored in the male range on the brain gender tests but not extremely male.

I tend to attract more male friends than female. I'm not masculine in appearance, I guess in attitude I am but I have no issues with "girl" things. I like some things that are feminine.

If 1 is extremely feminine and 10 is extremely masculine I'd be 5. Almost identifying as male in my own mind, but not.


Pretty much the same here I think. I dress male, most of (although not all) my interests are typical of males, it's more a question of how I think, the kinds of opinions I have, things I just do without worrying about it. Where is this test you're talking about?

I don't have the same thing with friends, I have female friends but male friends are more numerous. But, I find women like me very appealing, my girlfriends have generally been like this, whatever you call this (there was even one who took a break from being a lesbian then went back to it after)



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04 May 2012, 3:15 am

Verdandi wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
Verdandi wrote:
But seriously: Isn't it strange how cooking is viewed as a "female" thing, but barbecue is viewed as a "male" thing? Aren't they both basically the same thing, just through different methods and different dishes?


No, totally different. You see, grilling outdoors over FIRE goes back to the caveman days. The male brain is programmed to grill, it's our link to nature and our ancestors in these more 'civilized' times.


This sounds like hilarious machismo, but seriously, it doesn't really mean much. I don't believe human brains are programmed to use specific tools in specific ways, and I don't really believe that male and female brains are structured all that differently. If there's some atavistic urge to set things on fire and cook meat over it for 12 hours, why would it only appear in male brains instead of female brains, given that we're all made of the same stuff? Am I overthinking a funny joke? Where's Isaiah Mustafa when you need him?

It's also the same with chefs: Cooking is supposed to be a female thing, but being a chef is a male thing.


Yes don't over think it. I just found your video game comment funny. :lol:



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04 May 2012, 3:18 am

Rascal77s wrote:
Yes don't over think it. I just found your video game comment funny. :lol:


Good. Your joke was funny and meant to be a joke. :D