What do you think of people "interpreting" fiction?

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starkid
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16 Apr 2020, 10:23 pm

I posted this here because I want a lot of replies.

It irritates me when people make up "meanings" they say they see in novels and movies. It seems very egotistical to project one's own ideas onto someone else's work. Unless the person who wrote the book/script/etc. stated that the book/movie/etc. is supposed to mean something in particular, there's no way to know that the "interpretation" is correct, so why bother? It's like people are just so in love with their own ideas that they value them more than the actual story.

I know that I would dislike people making up some interpretation about a story I wrote.

And I hate it that some people won't take things at face value and they look for hidden meaning everywhere.



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16 Apr 2020, 11:49 pm

starkid wrote:
I posted this here because I want a lot of replies.

It irritates me when people make up "meanings" they say they see in novels and movies. It seems very egotistical to project one's own ideas onto someone else's work. Unless the person who wrote the book/script/etc. stated that the book/movie/etc. is supposed to mean something in particular, there's no way to know that the "interpretation" is correct, so why bother? It's like people are just so in love with their own ideas that they value them more than the actual story.

I know that I would dislike people making up some interpretation about a story I wrote.

And I hate it that some people won't take things at face value and they look for hidden meaning everywhere.


I find this very funny as someone who is currently studying English Literature and Classical Civilisation and enjoys creative writing. I don't think necessarily think every interpretation is correct, I feel like they are worth doing as if done well, a piece of fiction is well crafted. When I did film studies I realised how much thought is put into each asect and small things like the way something is filmed, hold a lot of meaning. When I read books on writing, I realised the same happens there. There are usually meanings that they meant to put in the work bellow the surface but I also think extra ones can be found that they didn't necessarily mean to put in consciously and noticing these can make the reading experience more interesting. On top of this, when you consider the context of a time something is written in and the person writing it, it adds a lot to the work. For example in Dracula the drinking of blood was not just as simple as the drinking of blood, when considering that they linked blood to semen at that time it can be understood as taboo and sexually charged. Then through just that fact alone, many scenes are then seen in a very different light and how you can understand them has completely changed. You can't see it as simply one thing anymore and how people understand it now diverges.

Also, I think of interpretations as theories, no one can say there's is correct but they can add to the enjoyment and help you view things in a new light. Some can be a stretch, and those can be a bit laughable but every now and again you find one that can transform how you see a piece of work. I think you misunderstand the intention, I don't think people normally interpret things cus they love themselves, it's because they want to understand something more depth. Yes, some may not be 'correct' but I don't think that matters and immediately assuming ego is judgemental.

Lastly, I was in a writing club and it we would write a piece and then hear what others thought of it. When I heard feedback on mine, I loved hearing how people interpreted my work and what they thought and sometimes someone would read something into the work that I hadn't. When this happened I found it interesting and if I liked it, I aligned myself with that interpretation.



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16 Apr 2020, 11:54 pm

I enjoy books and movies for the thrill if it's good, to waste some time if not. I'm not very in touch with my emotions so I love it when I am drawn into a story. I might get excited watching the testerone, or stop blinking with my mouth hanging half open in awe, or can't stop reading because of its originality, or stifle a quick sob, or whatever. Makes me feel alive and a part of something for a little while. I never look for meaning but will do some research afterwards on occasion to see if I at least got the gist, or missed something that might make me want to go back for a second look/read. (older now so mostly do audio or ebooks - not the same)
My favs are Christopher Nolan, JJ Abrams, Bad Robot, Focus Features, Stephen King, and old sci-fi/fantasy/drama from the late 1700s-1980s. I like the language and simplicity in old novels, stated plainly. People just lived depending on their circumstances, and if they were smart enough or lucky enough they could rise above it. Feelings had little to do with anything. And old sci-fi/fantasy isn't bogged down in tech jargon and too many words to express something that we've heard a hundred times since. Simplistic and often great, often with a child's sense of wonder about the future.



traven
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16 Apr 2020, 11:56 pm

Like the pastors on the radio who 'explain' what to think??
that's always annoying and ridiculous
but then also, most people want to know what to think, not think themselves

On the fiction front that won't attract a lot of custom if you only want to allow a narrow interpretation, yours.
this might depend on your writing and narratif skills if you can project yourself succesfully in the story, but you would allow for interpretation, or call it a biography



starkid
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17 Apr 2020, 1:14 am

lvpin wrote:
There are usually meanings that they meant to put in the work bellow the surface but I also think extra ones can be found that they didn't necessarily mean to put in consciously and noticing these can make the reading experience more interesting.

No. If the meaning wasn't intended, then it's not actually a legitimate interpretation. I agree that someone might create something based on subconscious associations, but that's not the same thing as the meaning of the work.

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For example in Dracula the drinking of blood was not just as simple as the drinking of blood, when considering that they linked blood to semen at that time it can be understood as taboo and sexually charged.

That's an interpretation of how people might see the story though. That's not an interpretation of the meaning of the story itself. It would not be ok to just guess that the author wanted the blood-drinking to have a sexual connotation. The author might have hated sex for all we know.

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Then through just that fact alone, many scenes are then seen in a very different light and how you can understand them has completely changed. You can't see it as simply one thing anymore and how people understand it now diverges.

Yes, but like I said, how people see something and what that something actually means are two different things. You can see a plus sign as a weird kind of cross, but that doesn't imply that addition also "means" crucifixion or that you should interpret addition as referring to crosses.

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Also, I think of interpretations as theories, no one can say there's is correct

The person who created whatever is being interpreted can say which interpretations are correct.

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but they can add to the enjoyment and help you view things in a new light.

As well as a false light.

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I think you misunderstand the intention, I don't think people normally interpret things cus they love themselves, it's because they want to understand something more depth.

There is no one intention. Different people do things for different reasons. You don't know everyone's reason for interpreting fiction. And the reason you are giving doesn't even make sense: examining one's own mental associations to understand someone else's work is not a good strategy. It would be better to read what the creator wrote about the work (if anything).

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Yes, some may not be 'correct' but I don't think that matters

Well, that's the crux of the matter. It's also kind of contradictory...you say people do this to understand something better, but how does an incorrect interpretation help them understand? It doesn't.

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and immediately assuming ego is judgemental.

I didn't "immediately assume." I gave one possible explanation. I did say "it's like people are so in love..." I didn't say ego was definitely the reason in all cases. I had to interpret stories for English class myself, so I know that people do it for other reasons.

Anyways, it's not judgmental to consider people egotistical for consulting their own thoughts to understand someone else's work. That's like textbook egotism. The true meaning of any fiction is literally in the mind of the person that created it; not in anyone else's mind (unless they've consulted the creator).



lvpin
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17 Apr 2020, 2:14 am

starkid wrote:
lvpin wrote:
There are usually meanings that they meant to put in the work bellow the surface but I also think extra ones can be found that they didn't necessarily mean to put in consciously and noticing these can make the reading experience more interesting.

No. If the meaning wasn't intended, then it's not actually a legitimate interpretation. I agree that someone might create something based on subconscious associations, but that's not the same thing as the meaning of the work.

Quote:
For example in Dracula the drinking of blood was not just as simple as the drinking of blood, when considering that they linked blood to semen at that time it can be understood as taboo and sexually charged.

That's an interpretation of how people might see the story though. That's not an interpretation of the meaning of the story itself. It would not be ok to just guess that the author wanted the blood-drinking to have a sexual connotation. The author might have hated sex for all we know.

Quote:
Then through just that fact alone, many scenes are then seen in a very different light and how you can understand them has completely changed. You can't see it as simply one thing anymore and how people understand it now diverges.

Yes, but like I said, how people see something and what that something actually means are two different things. You can see a plus sign as a weird kind of cross, but that doesn't imply that addition also "means" crucifixion or that you should interpret addition as referring to crosses.

Quote:
Also, I think of interpretations as theories, no one can say there's is correct

The person who created whatever is being interpreted can say which interpretations are correct.

Quote:

but they can add to the enjoyment and help you view things in a new light.

As well as a false light.

Quote:
I think you misunderstand the intention, I don't think people normally interpret things cus they love themselves, it's because they want to understand something more depth.

There is no one intention. Different people do things for different reasons. You don't know everyone's reason for interpreting fiction. And the reason you are giving doesn't even make sense: examining one's own mental associations to understand someone else's work is not a good strategy. It would be better to read what the creator wrote about the work (if anything).

Quote:
Yes, some may not be 'correct' but I don't think that matters

Well, that's the crux of the matter. It's also kind of contradictory...you say people do this to understand something better, but how does an incorrect interpretation help them understand? It doesn't.

Quote:
and immediately assuming ego is judgemental.

I didn't "immediately assume." I gave one possible explanation. I did say "it's like people are so in love..." I didn't say ego was definitely the reason in all cases. I had to interpret stories for English class myself, so I know that people do it for other reasons.

Anyways, it's not judgmental to consider people egotistical for consulting their own thoughts to understand someone else's work. That's like textbook egotism. The true meaning of any fiction is literally in the mind of the person that created it; not in anyone else's mind (unless they've consulted the creator).


When I said that interpretation means a theory and thus cannot be incorrect, I mean that as part of what makes something an interpretation is that it is an opinion not that it is the fact. You are right in believing that the fact will always be what the author intended and I agree with you on that point. The issue is you can never find two ppl who will understand a work completely the same, even if we look at the basic facts. This is something I often find when watching TV with others.

Also with your point on Dracula, as someone who is studying the text currently I can assure you the author did in fact mean that. He even says that in sharing blood two of the characters are essentially married. There's a bunch of other stuff to prove that point but I don't want to give you a whole essay on dracula and Bram Stoker haha.

In addition to this (sorry I am back to Dracula again) in one adaptation of the film Dracula a young and human Dracula stabs a crucifix and blood pours out of it which he drinks. There is an obvious meaning to this, as a rule directors do not just put in scenes for the fun of it and so you have to interpret it.. The argument of taking things at face value doesn't work for certain things, with some directors even not answering what they meant by things because they want audiences to interpret them. I believe the ending of inception is a good example of this.

I do think that at the end of the day the true meaning is with the author but you can't always ask them every little detail. I don't then think forming opinions is wrong. I think of interpretations as a way of guessing what they meant and as something worth doing in order to understand texts. I just feel that saying interpretation should not be done is a very black and white way of looking at it. Some pieces of work are literally made to be interpreted, I a currently studying one and if I took it literally it would make absolutely no sense and it was literally created to be taken apart. I was taught to use symbolism when I write in class, my study of literature (I want to be an author and so bought a lot of books on the subject), my writing course and in my writing club. It is basically expected that you don't state everything, that's why they say show don't tell as a rule in writing.

Also as an added note I want to apologise if at any point I come across as aggressive, I am just a very passionate person when it comes to this as creative works are a special interest of mine. So please don't take this as me attacking you in any way. I just thought I should mention that as I started feeling guilty haha

Also I disagree with your comment on ego as I see people who interpret as those engaging in an interest. If no one wanted to hear from them, there would be no platform for them and they would not engage with each other. You put out your opinion here expecting for us to find it engaging and it is to me but for others it isn't. You should still have your right to express your opinion and talk about it with others who are interested in it. That is what academics do, many aren't interested and that's ok but clearly some are.



naturalplastic
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17 Apr 2020, 2:32 am

That's what literature is for. To be interpreted.

It's like asking "what do you think of people who use money by trying to buy stuff with it?"



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17 Apr 2020, 3:51 am

naturalplastic wrote:
That's what literature is for. To be interpreted.

It's like asking "what do you think of people who use money by trying to buy stuff with it?"


I agree with this

Really well illustrated by the work of the 20th C modernists such as Joyce, Woolf et al - the whole stream of consciousness style is intended to encourage the reader to form their own pictures, feelings and interpretations surely?


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17 Apr 2020, 7:02 am

There have been times where a creator has retconned information about a particular aspect of a story and I've disliked this change. For instance, part way through the Danny Phantom TV series it was decided that the ghosts had never been living people and were merely monsters from the ghost realm. Despite previous episodes that had established backstories about their lives as humans. I preferred the ghosts who used to be humans because they were given actual character motivation rather than just causing havoc for the sake of it. So even though I know that the hurricane ghost is just a monster; I like to imagine that he was disgruntled weatherman in a previous life. A ghost in pop culture is usually defined as a spirit that often has unfinished business in the mortal world. I find them less compelling when you take away that aspect.

Personally, I like to speculate and create head cannons or read fan theories. I know that I might not be correct, but I find it fun to explore particular possibilities. Granted, if new information occurs that goes against the theories then I'll usually adjust my view. Even so, I find it entertaining to consider what if? Sure, I know that what I thought has been proven incorrect, but what if it was correct? How would that change things given this new information?

I've even been inspired to write my own stories before because I disliked how a concept I originally liked was handled by an author. Usually I'll take into account the word of an author, but I also like to create alternative ideas and speculations. I won't pretend that my ideas are definitely cannon within the world, but I'll talk about why I'd like it if they were and consider these possibilities.


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17 Apr 2020, 7:09 am

Also some authors in the past just couldn't spell out what they meant because of censorship. They had to rely on their readers (or audience) to find the underlying meaning.

Personally, I find interpreting literature also makes us exercise the ability to look behind what someone says and how they are trying to manipulate us. I enjoy literature much more when there is stuff I have to think about, things that are not obvious but require interpretation.



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17 Apr 2020, 7:17 am

For me, the main attractions of fiction is the use of language and words especially interesting juxtapoitions, unusual words and the rhythm of the narrative. I find it difficult to imagine the world being described in my head or form an attachment to characters etc. I often re-read books that I have read many times such as Moby Dick and Ullyses as they feel so familiar to me and its like going through a well rehearsed ritual.

On balance I probably prefer reference and factual book though.


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17 Apr 2020, 8:19 am

Once an author has released their work then their interpretation of it matters no more or less than anyone else.

Let’s say tomorrow JK Rowling said that Harry Potter is the bad guy and actually Voldemort is the hero of the story. She’s allowed to think that if she wants, but she’s clearly wrong.

Works like “The Birth of a Nation” or “Triumph of the Will” are works where it is easy to understand why we may wish to challenge the creator’s viewpoint.

The author’s perspective can tell us something about the work, but it is not definitive. We can learn from the context that a work is written in, but interpreting it in a modern context or a different culture can also be valuable.



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17 Apr 2020, 8:24 am

“Interpreting fiction” is a fun indulgence. Most of the time, I feel like most “interpreters” are on the right track, more or less, if they do a careful reading of the piece, and have little bias.

To absolutely interpret a work of fiction with 100% correctness is impossible if one doesn’t know the author intimately. But isn’t it fun to try?



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17 Apr 2020, 1:31 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
There have been times where a creator has retconned information about a particular aspect of a story and I've disliked this change. For instance, part way through the Danny Phantom TV series it was decided that the ghosts had never been living people and were merely monsters from the ghost realm. Despite previous episodes that had established backstories about their lives as humans. I preferred the ghosts who used to be humans because they were given actual character motivation rather than just causing havoc for the sake of it. So even though I know that the hurricane ghost is just a monster; I like to imagine that he was disgruntled weatherman in a previous life. A ghost in pop culture is usually defined as a spirit that often has unfinished business in the mortal world. I find them less compelling when you take away that aspect.

Personally, I like to speculate and create head cannons or read fan theories. I know that I might not be correct, but I find it fun to explore particular possibilities. Granted, if new information occurs that goes against the theories then I'll usually adjust my view. Even so, I find it entertaining to consider what if? Sure, I know that what I thought has been proven incorrect, but what if it was correct? How would that change things given this new information?

I've even been inspired to write my own stories before because I disliked how a concept I originally liked was handled by an author. Usually I'll take into account the word of an author, but I also like to create alternative ideas and speculations. I won't pretend that my ideas are definitely cannon within the world, but I'll talk about why I'd like it if they were and consider these possibilities.


I had an english teacher who would get us to lay on the floor with the lights off, tell us to relax and breath, and he would then read a few chapters of a short story or shortish novel. When he stopped we had to imagine what happened next, in the dark for the rest of the class, then write about it as an assignment. I loved this exercise!! Once everybody had their work passed in he made a few copies available so we could read the original - I was always so off the mark. But once or twice I liked my version better. Non-conforming teachers were probably the best part of school.



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17 Apr 2020, 9:23 pm

I think most of those interpreters are just trying to talk about themselves and hook it to something of interest. In one of my all time favourite Doonesbury cartoons, Bob Dylan, whose lyrics have been the topic of whole University courses, reveals his true meaning: "I just want it to rhyme, man."

That said, private interpretation is inevitable. No matter how you write, no two people will react the same. The proliferation of religious sects is clear evidence of such variation.



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17 Apr 2020, 9:56 pm

I too strongly dislike "interpretations" of fiction. There was one time in English class where we read a book and then watched a movie version of it and I could identify when they got one word wrong in the lines, but when faced with a worksheet asking about underlying things, I couldn't come up with a single answer. There was also one time when we watched a movie in class, and I understood the movie (I think it was Minority Report, when we were doing dystopias) much better than the other students, who kept asking questions about what was going on, but then afterward we were handed a worksheet with several questions about interpreting the movie and again, I couldn't come up with anything. I am terrible at spotting "hidden messages" (if they're even really there in the first place) and just understand things exactly as they are written.


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