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kahlua
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23 Dec 2012, 7:11 am

I just can't get over all the times I've been wronged or hard done by. I carry a grudge and will get revenge by silently sabotaging people where possible, as I avoid confrontation.

Currently punishing my parents because I couldn't deal with the way they were treating me (as an adult and from childhood). They insist I don't have asd but are so far from normal the,selves, they wouldn't know what normal was. Anyway, I feel so hurt and upset, I stopped talking them a year ago. Gave them one more chance, but they blew it.

Have a heap of upset and anxiety from everything, Xmas just makes things worse as its all about family (ouch). Parties ( ugh) and socialising, drinking and so much acting to be done.

But I digress, is it really possible to forgive people? I just can't let people get away with doing the wrong thing. My sense of justice and fairness is just too strong.



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23 Dec 2012, 7:50 am

Quote:
How to forgive ?

i do not really understand (subjectively) the concept of "forgiveness" because i also do not understand (subjectively) the concept of "blame".

in my world, once something unfortunate has happened, it has happened, and there is no possibility of returning to the past to prevent it from having happened.

if someone is continuously disrupting my life and seems like they will continue to do so, then i will take steps to address my displeasure, but once it passes into history, i can not be bothered to think about it. i repair the damage and move on.

i can not understand grudges, or the concept of "an eye for an eye". i do not care about people enough to be filled with resentment concerning them.

if a tree fell onto my car and destroyed it, i would be upset that it happened, but i would not blame the tree and think of ways to make it suffer. i am only concerned about the damage, and i am not concerned with vengeance, because no matter what i do, my car would not be restored.

if an ape escaped from it's enclosure in a zoo and seriously injured me, i would not think about the ape (after it's recapture). i would think about what to do about my wounds.
i would not seek for the ape to suffer as i did, because it would not lessen the severity of my wounds. there is no correlation in my mind between my suffering and other's suffering.

who cares whether i "forgive" them? what power do i have in simply refusing to forgive? none.

for me, the world starts now, and all that has happened before is gone.

i have no regrets or grudges that tie me into useless expenditures of energy that are appropriated to a time that no longer exists.

i do not have any advice on how to "forgive" because i can not think in terms of "blame".

i understand objectively what those words mean, but, like a color blind person who knows all the descriptions of the color "red", i have never actually seen it.



Aspiewordsmith
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23 Dec 2012, 8:49 am

Most people i know would just see forgiveness as like a licence to f**k you over even more. They do not feel guilty that is most allistics have no remorse over hurting anyone on the autistic spectrum either physically or emotionally they will not apologise. Forgiveness is for those that feel genuine remorse not psychopaths who get off on damaging people psychologically. Most allistics see forgiveness as a sign of weakness but they would not admit to that to our face. I also have a lot of stuff myself doing back to April 1974. It is not the Aspergian people's fault that allistic people have no sense of justice and fair play. :arrow:



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23 Dec 2012, 9:04 am

Aspiewordsmith wrote:
:arrow:


what does your arrow point toward?



MrXxx
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23 Dec 2012, 9:37 am

kahlua wrote:
I just can't get over all the times I've been wronged or hard done by. I carry a grudge and will get revenge by silently sabotaging people where possible, as I avoid confrontation.

Currently punishing my parents because I couldn't deal with the way they were treating me (as an adult and from childhood). They insist I don't have asd but are so far from normal the,selves, they wouldn't know what normal was. Anyway, I feel so hurt and upset, I stopped talking them a year ago. Gave them one more chance, but they blew it.

Have a heap of upset and anxiety from everything, Xmas just makes things worse as its all about family (ouch). Parties ( ugh) and socialising, drinking and so much acting to be done.

But I digress, is it really possible to forgive people? I just can't let people get away with doing the wrong thing. My sense of justice and fairness is just too strong.


Generally, I get over it by focusing on what good comes of it for me. If you're focused only on what's happened to you in the past, and getting revenge, what you you end up with?

Anxiety. You said it yourself.

Sounds to me like your special interests are grudges and getting even. I would find another special interest that has nothing to do with either one. Works for me.


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I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...


aspiemike
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23 Dec 2012, 10:12 am

There is only one person you can really apolgize to when you get hurt and let it bother you: yourself. Self-forgiveness is only the most important kind of forgiveness. As forgiveness for others, it's not so much forgiveness that would bother people. Remember when people say the words "Forgive and forget"? Well I think the problem here is people won't do either or simply won't forget and wait for an opportunity for you to slip up again.



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23 Dec 2012, 10:23 am

aspiemike wrote:
There is only one person you can really apolgize to when you get hurt and let it bother you: yourself. Self-forgiveness is only the most important kind of forgiveness.

i do not need to forgive myself because i never did anything wrong as far as i am concerned.



MrXxx
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23 Dec 2012, 10:26 am

aspiemike wrote:
There is only one person you can really apolgize to when you get hurt and let it bother you: yourself. Self-forgiveness is only the most important kind of forgiveness. As forgiveness for others, it's not so much forgiveness that would bother people. Remember when people say the words "Forgive and forget"? Well I think the problem here is people won't do either or simply won't forget and wait for an opportunity for you to slip up again.


Forgetting is important for forgiveness, but it can be hard if people don't stop the behaviors that led to the harm to begin with. For one thing, they won't stop if they don't know they've harmed us, so we have to let them know their actions have harmed us. Forgiveness can't really happen if the person who needs to be forgiven doesn't even know they've offended us.

If they don't stop once they do know, it's nearly impossible to forget because we're constantly reminded. In that case, it's a matter of learning to move on and shrug it off. If they do understand what they've done, and demonstrate they do care by changing their behavior, forgive and forget can actually work.

In the former circumstances, it becomes a matter of how much we allow the fact that they simply don't care affect us. If we dwell on it, we become anxious and obsessive. If we find other things to do with our thoughts and actions, that can distract us with more productive things that have nothing to do with that person. I've shut some people out of my life because of things like this. Even some family members. If contact with someone, no matter who they are, is having a negative impact on me, continuing contact with them isn't worth it.


_________________
I'm not likely to be around much longer. As before when I first signed up here years ago, I'm finding that after a long hiatus, and after only a few days back on here, I'm spending way too much time here again already. So I'm requesting my account be locked, banned or whatever. It's just time. Until then, well, I dunno...


aspiemike
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23 Dec 2012, 11:26 am

MrXxx wrote:
aspiemike wrote:
There is only one person you can really apolgize to when you get hurt and let it bother you: yourself. Self-forgiveness is only the most important kind of forgiveness. As forgiveness for others, it's not so much forgiveness that would bother people. Remember when people say the words "Forgive and forget"? Well I think the problem here is people won't do either or simply won't forget and wait for an opportunity for you to slip up again.


Forgetting is important for forgiveness, but it can be hard if people don't stop the behaviors that led to the harm to begin with. For one thing, they won't stop if they don't know they've harmed us, so we have to let them know their actions have harmed us. Forgiveness can't really happen if the person who needs to be forgiven doesn't even know they've offended us.

If they don't stop once they do know, it's nearly impossible to forget because we're constantly reminded. In that case, it's a matter of learning to move on and shrug it off. If they do understand what they've done, and demonstrate they do care by changing their behavior, forgive and forget can actually work.

In the former circumstances, it becomes a matter of how much we allow the fact that they simply don't care affect us. If we dwell on it, we become anxious and obsessive. If we find other things to do with our thoughts and actions, that can distract us with more productive things that have nothing to do with that person. I've shut some people out of my life because of things like this. Even some family members. If contact with someone, no matter who they are, is having a negative impact on me, continuing contact with them isn't worth it.


This was the perfect follow up.



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23 Dec 2012, 5:40 pm

I guess I also hold grudges.

At one workplace I was subject to physical bullying / intimidation/ oneupsmanship / cheap little games.

I thought, what if I had an Uncle who was a mafioso who argued with me, "Please, out of respect, let me take care of this for you. I know how much you put into a job and some idiot is going to play his cheap little games. Let me send over a couple of my boys. And I'm not talking morgue, maybe just hospital if that. Maybe just touch him up a little. Please let me do this. Out of respect to you."

You see then, if I let it go, it will be out of conscious choice, and not because I don't have any other option. And that does make a difference.

=====

And it probably goes without saying that 'family' is the most difficult situation of all. (I use quotes because my parents haven't always acted like family, and my dad has been one of the biggest bullies of my life.)