Mental Illness vs Neurological Disorder

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nessa238
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22 Jan 2013, 9:45 am

Dreycrux wrote:
It's a developmental disorder, with changes in brain structure. A neurological "difference" is simply a personal and emotional definition.

A lot is unknown about the physical changes to the brain with other mental disorders and illness. Most of the evidence gained points to a physical cause and are not just a matter of disorders of thinking.


It's only defined as a disorder by the majority - I define it for myself as a difference as I find far more 'disorderedness' in how NTs act than how people with ASDs do

ie the majority opinion holds no sway whatsoever with me on many subjects.



nessa238
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22 Jan 2013, 9:48 am

idratherbeatree wrote:
Mental Illness revolves around the slowly failing paradigm of "The Psyche", or the "Mind". Rather than view behavior as a neurological construct it sees an element of humanity removed from the physical function, and instead a result of an individuals "Psyche."

This is part of the reason why there are so few people with "Mental Illnesses" that get better. Mental Illnesses are constructs resulting from a societal belief in what is normal. Autism was seen as a result of a damaged Psyche, rather than a neurological difference. Since Neuro-Psychiatry began emerging, and the use of modern Psychoactive Drugs, we know that Autism, Schizophrenia, Bi-Polar Disorder, Depression, Tourette's Syndrome, Anxiety, OCD, Schizoid/Schizotypal, Dissociative Disorders, and even Placebo reactions are a result of a Neurological situation, and are often genetic. We know that the way we are brought up actually changes our brain structure.

I honestly do not believe in "Mental Illness" anymore. One of the things I've been thinking about quite a lot lately is how these disorders look in the animal world. Many "Mental" disorders exist in a way we can identify in other species. (This is especially true for OCD.) Making me further doubt them as a result of psychological difficulties.


Yes this is true - I just couldn't be bothered to articulate it as I've been here before with this topic on this forum and a big argument ensued

I've read 'The Myth of Mental Illness' by Thomas Szasz and agree with what he says basically



nessa238
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22 Jan 2013, 9:55 am

Ettina wrote:
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I've heard a few people say, some quite passionately, that autism is not a mental illness, it is a neurological disorder. This confuses me a little as I have always seen these terms as relatively interchangeable. What do you think is the difference between a mental illness and a neurological disorder?


I disagree. Autism is not a neurological disorder. A neurological disorder, in my opinion, is a condition with a clearly identifiable neurological abnormality, that is diagnosed by in some way observing the brain directly. Something like hydrocephalus, or cerebellar atrophy, agenesis of the corpus callosum or epilepsy. Neurological disorders are not diagnosed by observing behavior, but by doing medical tests involving the brain.

I don't consider autism a mental illness, either. To me, mental illness is a state, not a trait. By which I mean that a mental illness is something that gets better and worse, and can appear or disappear completely. For example, depression or psychosis are episodic.

The technical term for the category autism falls into is 'neurodevelopmental disorder'. This means a condition that is present from birth or early childhood, and is presumed to have a neurobiological cause, but is not due to a readily identifiable abnormality in the majority of cases.

However, the distinction between neurodevelopmental disorder and mental illness can be fuzzy at times. Schizophrenia, for example, often straddles the border. The classic syndrome typically appears in adolescence or early adulthood with an acute psychotic episode, which can be brought under control but may recur. However, most people also have some symptoms which linger between episodes. And there is evidence that many also have subtle differences before their first acute psychotic episode, most often schizotypal personality disorder, or sometimes learning disabilities, introversion or autistic traits. So, although schizophrenia is typically called a mental illness, a good argument could be made that it might be a neurodevelopmental disorder instead.

However, most people who insist that autism is not a mental illness probably aren't thinking about the science of it. Instead, they're just trying to avoid the stigma that the term 'mental illness' is associated with. (Which is not a good reason to avoid a label, as Amanda Baggs points out. The stigma is wrong whether or not you have a mental illness.)


I have Aspergers and I get depression too and was diagnosed with several personality disorders so I am in the Autism as well as the Mental illness 'camps' but I would say the mental illness has been directly caused by people seeing me as different and not accepting me for that difference ie it certainly wasn't inherent mental illness - society has caused it.

A difference - Aspergers has caused society to bully and reject me, which has caused mental illness - clear cause and effect
Make no mistake it is society/NTs who have caused my mental illness - they can take ALL the blame for it and can think themselves damn lucky I haven't gone over the edge and ended up killing someone. That is all down to ME - to MY intelligence, to MY willpower!



Ettina
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22 Jan 2013, 10:00 am

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I have Aspergers and I get depression too and was diagnosed with several personality disorders so I am in the Autism ans well as the Mental illness camps but I would say the mental illness has been directly caused by people seeing me as different and not accepting me for that reason ie it certainly wasn't inherent - society has caused it

A difference - Aspergers has caused society to reject and pick on me which has caused mental illness - clear cause and effect
- make no mistake it is society/NTs who have caused me to be mentally ill - they take ALL the blame for it and can think themselves damn lucky I haven't gone over the edge and ended up killing someone. That is all down to ME - to MY intelligence, to MY willpower!


I can relate. I have PTSD and have had episodes of depression (though I'm feeling OK now). If I hadn't been abused and bullied, I'd still be autistic, but I wouldn't have my meltdowns and my mood swings and my episodes of desperate unhappiness. I think how I express emotions is shaped by my autism, but many of my negative emotions have a lot more to do with my environment than the way I'm wired.



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22 Jan 2013, 1:29 pm

nessa238 wrote:
I have Aspergers and I get depression too and was diagnosed with several personality disorders so I am in the Autism as well as the Mental illness 'camps' but I would say the mental illness has been directly caused by people seeing me as different and not accepting me for that difference ie it certainly wasn't inherent mental illness - society has caused it.

A difference - Aspergers has caused society to bully and reject me, which has caused mental illness - clear cause and effect
Make no mistake it is society/NTs who have caused my mental illness - they can take ALL the blame for it and can think themselves damn lucky I haven't gone over the edge and ended up killing someone. That is all down to ME - to MY intelligence, to MY willpower!


It's really interesting what you say. If you think about it, once upon a time before there was travel, people lived in tribes, each had their own ways of life, rituals and acceptable behaviours. There would be animosity and wars between tribes because of each other being different, and not part of their own. Sometimes, tribes might join and inter-breed and absorb one another's ways in the process, through movement and trading and communicating in a necessary way to survive and evolve. In a way, Aspies are like our own tribe, but we have differences that pretty much can't be merged into the now huge tribe of NT society which incorporates all colours and creeds in a big mix in many places. It's almost like we need to all join into one Aspie tribe with our own land, make our own society in which we are not weird or outside of the norm. The NT tribe is the majority and won't bend their ways to incorporate ours. So in that way, yes we are aliens on the wrong planet.


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22 Jan 2013, 3:32 pm

All mental illnesses are neurological in nature, even if you want to get all semantical and declare that mental illnesses aren't neurological disabilities.

Autism, same thing. Neurological in nature, even if you don't want to call it a neurological disability.

Not all disabilities with a neurological basis are mental illnesses or ASDs, though.


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22 Jan 2013, 4:12 pm

Ellingtonia wrote:
I've heard a few people say, some quite passionately, that autism is not a mental illness, it is a neurological disorder. This confuses me a little as I have always seen these terms as relatively interchangeable. What do you think is the difference between a mental illness and a neurological disorder?

I'd prefer not to get off topic, at least to start, so please note that I am not asking whether autism is a mental illness or a neurological disorder, I don't want to get into a debate about that right now. I want to hear people's definitions of the two terms and what people think separates the two.


This is a really interesting post!

Verdandi wrote:
I do not think there is a strict division between neurological disorder and mental illness.
I suspect as neuropsychology becomes more of a thing there'll be more blurring of the lines.
Also I think I agree with idratherbeatree.


ITA with what Verdandi said. For years they have been doing research about Bi-Polar disorder and it's connection to seizures. Technically Bipolar would be a mental illness, yet sometimes i feel that it will be decades or longer before any definitive research comes out.
It's not been that long ago where society treated the mentally ill horrific and locked them away and abused them.
We have made progress since then, and many are researching. There are a ton of scientific articles connecting Bipolar with Epilepsy.
So i can see the lines blending with something like that. It could turn out that many other disorders are caused by genetic and neurological issues, which IMO i think in the future they'll figure out.

Autism is a developmental disorder according to the DSM-IV-TR. However we also know that a lot who are on the spectrum also suffer from Epilepsy.

Epilepsy is a neurological disorder. Many with Autism and Bipolar have Epilepsy as well (studies have shown this). Perhaps they will figure out the exact connections or factors involved in the future.

However if one were to consider Autism a neurological disorder, imo I would consider Bipolar a neurological disorder as well, especially with all the research that has been done,



Samian
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22 Jan 2013, 7:37 pm

This is an interesting thread!

I don't have the education to ague this point rasied by the OP however....

I feel autism has given me a reduced level of social reasoning -period. same way some people have poor math skills or a bad memory. I'm guessing it's a big part of the brain affected - who knows?

and it's given me sensitivities.

EVERYTHING ELSE I struggle with are a product of growing up in society. Social phobia, anxiety, panic, and depression are all in my opinion by-products that you could call mental heath issues brought about by not being accepted at school , at work, etc. losing self esteem and confidence.

The reduced social reasoning is brain wiring - it can be improved but it's more or less a fixed thing.