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btbnnyr
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12 Aug 2013, 12:35 pm

Tuttle wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
One way to tell difference between whiners and non-whiners is to see what their response is when you give them with some practical suggestions for improving their lives in thread in which they brought up one of their problems. If they consider some of the suggestions as things that they could try in life, then they are not whiner, but if they reply to suggestions with long posts about all the reasons that they can't try suggestion A, then another for B, then another for C, then they are whiner, because their only purpose was to whine and get attention that must somehow be rewarding and feel good, although I don't unbersmand why it would, if problem still has no vestige of solution.


Or they could be severely depressed and have a very hopeless view in general.


Or they could really not understand the suggestions - and what the person views as practical suggestions to them might be meaningless ramblings.


The depression hypothesis is very plausible, and this person should get help for depression, free help if they or people who support them can't afford it.

The second less so, based on eggsamples that I have observed on wp, because the person usually understands the nature of the suggestions and writes long responses to why they are not at all workable or worth trying, and sometimes during the responses, does the very things that they say that they can't do.


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Tuttle
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12 Aug 2013, 12:45 pm

I don't think it'd explain every situation. But I think it can explain some. I know there's someone on another forum who's convinced I'm a whiner, because I cannot understand any explanation of any "practical suggestion" she has. They all only are to me "if you only just tried and you wouldn't be autistic"

Apparently some people get information from what she says, but I can't get anything from what she says. But because I don't do things, and respond saying her suggestions are useless, I've turned into a whiner. Even though its not that I'm not trying, its that I really don't get any information from her.

Similarly sometimes, the steps people suggest are too far - someone telling me to volunteer 40 hours a week - that's not a thing I can do.

On the other hand, volunteering 10 hours a week. That's a thing I can do. So I can start there. But, if I just said "I can't do it", it'd come off wrong. Because it was someone overworking me. Expecting too much, because of different people having different requirements.


However, I completely agree that it doesn't explain all of them, but I think it can explain some situations.



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12 Aug 2013, 1:42 pm

Quote:
...I don't think it'd explain every situation. But I think it can explain some. I know there's someone

On the other hand, volunteering 10 hours a week. That's a thing I can do. So I can start there. But, if I just said "I can't do it", it'd come off wrong. Because it was someone overworking me. Expecting too much, because of different people having different requirements...
.

Tuttle, yes, my comment about doing volunteer work forty hours a week was definitely over the wall. I do not know if you are one of the people who plays the aspei--nt card as I have not read many of your messages and do not recall, but if you are, or even if you are not, then apply this same line of reasoning there to yourself and/or to those who are doing it....I really like your thoughtful message as it points out things cannot be sorted out by making these kind of broad generalizations such as the one I made, which I suspect is one thing Tyrion was trying to point to as right before he made this thread he made this point in another discussion called "Neurotypical Privilege," which I will be going back to eventually, Personally I think Tyrion is a genius.....Maybe I am reading into this thread but it seems the main point he is making is about sorting and grading...so how does one sort out sorting and grading---by sorting and grading, but in communicating with others sometimes it needs to be done in such a way that stands out, or things will just get carded into the same old grove. As I see it, he intuitively understands this.....littlebee



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12 Aug 2013, 2:53 pm

Going back to the original topic - I've noticed parents of Autistic children are worse than Autistic adults. I post on a Facebook group which is mostly full of parents with Autistic children and there's a lot of "how do I get this and that?"

There was one moaning because they only got one night per week respite. My parents were never offered such luxury with 2 disabled children and another child. (who they thought was disabled; but there's nothing wrong with her) We also never received a free holiday or any other assistance either. We were just left to get on with it.



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12 Aug 2013, 5:07 pm

Tuttle wrote:
Rascal77s wrote:
btbnnyr wrote:
One way to tell difference between whiners and non-whiners is to see what their response is when you give them with some practical suggestions for improving their lives in thread in which they brought up one of their problems. If they consider some of the suggestions as things that they could try in life, then they are not whiner, but if they reply to suggestions with long posts about all the reasons that they can't try suggestion A, then another for B, then another for C, then they are whiner, because their only purpose was to whine and get attention that must somehow be rewarding and feel good, although I don't unbersmand why it would, if problem still has no vestige of solution.


Or they could be severely depressed and have a very hopeless view in general.


Or they could really not understand the suggestions - and what the person views as practical suggestions to them might be meaningless ramblings.


Or maybe they have additional knowledge of the situation which makes the advice impractical, which is why they're writing a long post explaining it.
Maybe they _have_ tried all the proposed solutions and are still hoping for a viable one. Just because all the generic advice that is given to someone is rejected doesn't make them a "whiner".

Maybe people should examine their need to call all people with difficult problems that aren't solved by advice that was typed up in five minutes whiners.


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Ettina
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12 Aug 2013, 5:08 pm

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How about this for a starter? I suggest that every aspie who does not have a job does some kind of volunteer work forty hours a week until someone offers him or her a paid job, and I do think a job eventually will be offered to many of the people who do this.


How do you volunteer forty hours a week? All the volunteer positions I've had don't take forty hours a week. Except for the humane society (I could spend as much time as I want there) but asthma and transportation issues limit the time I can volunteer there. (If I spend too long there, I get short of breath from cat & dog dander, and plus I can only get there with help from my Dad, who works full-time.)



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12 Aug 2013, 5:11 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
The depression hypothesis is very plausible, and this person should get help for depression, free help if they or people who support them can't afford it.


People like to make this statement "get help" and ignore the fact that depression is usually not easily fixed, especially in cases where the depression is linked with long-lasting and dissatisfying life circumstances.


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12 Aug 2013, 5:14 pm

Indeed. I've been working on my major depression for the past three years now, and while it has noticeably improved, it is still present. It is also extremely difficult - when I am in a depressive period - for me to muster the motivation to do much to get out of it.

Fortunately, I have some coping mechanisms that can make it easier to mitigate these periods. However, if the other supports I currently have in place disappear, then the coping mechanisms may not work any longer.



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12 Aug 2013, 5:24 pm

Ettina wrote:
Quote:
How about this for a starter? I suggest that every aspie who does not have a job does some kind of volunteer work forty hours a week until someone offers him or her a paid job, and I do think a job eventually will be offered to many of the people who do this.


How do you volunteer forty hours a week? All the volunteer positions I've had don't take forty hours a week. Except for the humane society (I could spend as much time as I want there) but asthma and transportation issues limit the time I can volunteer there. (If I spend too long there, I get short of breath from cat & dog dander, and plus I can only get there with help from my Dad, who works full-time.)


And as your asthma example demonstrates, volunteering may not get around the issues that interfere with being able to work. I can't be around barking dogs for forty hours a week, for example, which makes volunteering at the humane society a bit problematic. And I'd love to volunteer there...but not for forty hours.

Other places may have other issues. I don't believe there's a simple solution, nor do I think that most people diagnosed AS are either unemployed or underemployed (wishful fantasies about vast populations of unidentified/undiagnosed employed, "successful" aspies notwithstanding) because they're too lazy or too entitled to work.

littlebee:

Tyri0n's provocative. He may or may not be a genius, but he makes controversial posts that appear intended to provoke responses. He has said that he does as much in the past when discussing the possibility of personality disorder. I was not actually being sarcastic or joking or making things up when I mentioned the "child abuse cures autism" thing - that was something he suggested in the past, whether or not he would describe it as child abuse.