Wikipedia editors allege bias and bigotry against AS

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I hope not.

I would agree on that comparison to Black Rights in 1956. What gets me on edge though is people like CAN and Autism Speaks. To use the Black Rights metaphor once again, it would be similar if they found a pill that would change Black people to White. At that point, the Black Rights were so bad they would not have had much chance to retaliate against it. I believe it's a similar situation with us. Better to speak up now than when everyone thinks we're all little meltdown kids who are impossible to manage and drive people to suicide and they have a cure for it.

I find the metaphor of race or sex to be off. They have numbers.

All ASD we are up to 1 in 150, and not saying anything, but some are not going to become involved with the world. Maybe we are 1 in 500.

Blacks and gays have votes, perhaps 18%, counting liberals. We have 0.02%. If we could get everyone, which is impossible, 0.06%.

We will not have political power in any form. Jews are maybe half of Gays, but have economic power. We do not have that culture.

We are far from united in opinion. Some want out, they are close to the NT border, and through hard work would sneek in and pass if they could. Nothing wrong with passing for normal. They are our best examples, they do have the ability to reach high, if they can get in the game.

My older group gave up on that idea and took up small business. Before Tech was pop, watch and instrument makers, jewelers, camera repair, the little but highly skilled markets, were ours. Maps, books, highly detailed work, and not having to speak with anyone.

He moved strangly, spoke strangly, dressed different, and it became the image of the rare book seller, the scientific instrument maker.

I think I fit in there, and self measured around here, HFA rather than Aspie.

We are not a drop in the Neuro Diversity bucket, and are more, not less functional, than NTs.

I was the one called after the repair team did their best and failed.

After three mechanics had given up, it was my turn. They saw machines, I saw systems, I rarely failed.

When I did it was because I discovered the problem was beyond repair. I could say why it would be cheaper to buy new.

I will fully claim strange, weird, even here. I am not defective. I am the other side, High Function.

I can see Neuro Diversity, accept people with defects, I have long tolerated NTs.

What I see about Neuro Diversity is like grouping Gays with the Celibate, for both are not involved in Hetrosexual practices. The catagory would also include Beastiality, Necrophilia, Sadism, and you see my problem.

As a system, we have NTs with Aspie traits, Aspie/NT borderline, Aspie, Aspie/HFA, HFA, Then I differ, being close, to Profound Autism, with the accent on Profound. They may not function in the world, or speak much, but I hear great wisdom in their few words.

Other Neuro conditions I do see as defects. I am not defective.

I write my own Patents, Books, Publish, did IT, till the flood, Business Consultant, fine art prints, and have a long past in other subjects, that I keep up with new developments.

I am Diverse from everything. Wrong Planet is the only thing I ever identified with.

With age comes adapting, in earlier times we just did. I see it here, many want to be NT, and work at it, and in time, they will pass, perhaps not unnoticed, but enough to work, marry, live.

Some here will never adapt, they will always be outside. I can function in the world, and do not want to.

Knowing nothing, I had to come to terms with myself, and found I like the guy. His strange ways made more money than his peers. I do not watch TV or go to movies, or listen to music, the world does not entertain me. I read, and work on my projects. I do not associate with people, I deal with them.

If my demographic is one in a thousand, that is still 300,000 in the USA. We survive on knowledge and skill.

Linking me to a Neuro Diversity Movement is doing me no favor.

It will not help those who have the goal of just living in the world and interacting with NTs. They do not want to be tolerated because they are like Psychopaths, Sczophrenics, the mentally ret*d, birth defects, the depressed, and a host of other ills. They want to be just like everyone else.

Identity politics is not for us. We are not defective.

I fought my way up, I am me. The 1994 AS Law does not apply, I am Grandfathered in. As I keep saying, AS is 6,853% and we each get 100% out of that. It is bad Science, Medicine, some babble from a storefront religion called Psychology, it lacks facts, math, and a consistant point of view.

I do not accept the priesthood or the premise. We grew up, this last generation is stunted by treatment. Natural development, which has worked for all time, is being blocked with experimental drugs, to create a chemically Dependant class of customers. People who would have had lives in the past are being destroyed to buy some condos and BMWs.

We are not defective. Psychology is. The first rule of Medicine is, "Do no harm." not "Original Sin."

We are bright people, focused, with talents, drive, who make a great contrabution to the life of all.

We can be found in the First Chair in Music, we own Math, we developed and run the Hard Sciences, Computers are just useful toys, wait and see our Robots. Our world is just starting. Educated on the Internet, identified on WP, we are the future.

We are the people who gathered and formed Colleges. The self educated who taught this world.

The light of knowledge was us burning at the stake for our views. We won.

WE broke the power of Church and Feudel State, formed Free Villages with Free Trade, and secured it with Patents and the Magna Charta. We lead the world out of a thousand years of darkness.

It was our technology that produced the printing press, the steam engine, and changed the world from one that barely produced food with human and animal labor, to one that produces a surplus of all things.

We took lightning from the gods and built a world communication net.

It is just the beginning.

If I was a character in a Louis L'Amour novel, it would be someone like The Tinker.

Inventor,
You sound very much like someone I know, someone that is very comfortable with who he is....maybe I sounded like I was ready to riot, but that was not the intent.

I agree, AS or even HFA should not be a protected class. But do you let the reporter call it a disease? Or, what about the doctor? I have run into several doctors that refer to AS as something that must be treated. (uh, how?) And it's been my experience if you don't speak up right away, you convey acquiescence. The longer the silence, the longer it takes to resolve. At least this has been true for me.....Do you really mean to say "sweep it under the rug, don't discuss it and don't correct others publicly?" I hope I am just hearing don't make it a defined "cause." I really think by not speaking out there is inferred permission to take liberties with the defining the diagnosis.

I am not asking anyone to go public, but I am asking them to stand up for themselves. It doesn't even have to be face to face, but perhaps a letter to the editor or to the reporter and setting him or her straight, taking on the alternate editors that clearly have an agenda that is detrimental......unless you do consider this a disease. Reading your post, I suspect that is the furthest possibility in your mind. You accept the talent. I won't even say you relish the talent. It is what it is, right? Why would anyone expect different? But we can see the exceptional talent......and while some poor kid is in the news as an Aspie shooter on a college campus, no one is seeing the genius.

I have argued with those on the spectrum and it is not fun. It's like a gazillion missiles coming from you at every direction packaged in fact. (ok, I won't bring up the ability to give exact dates, addresses and what was said verbatim). Have you looked at that Talk Page on Wiki for the Asperger's subject? While I agree Wiki may not be recognized as a valid source, millions find the Wiki entry first. I cannot understand if someone is making unilateral decisions on something they, themselves do not experience, what right do they have to deny positive entries? My argument: in this situation, why would Aspies not confront this information (and run circles up, down and completely around what Mr. Smith calls the bigots)? It's not public, it's not identity politics, it's standing up for what is right and teaching our youth not to lay down without speaking up. Teach them the RIGHT way.....not the way many will act in frustration. I am not asking anyone to go on Oprah - but if that gives someone a feeling of accomplishment, go for it. Right now, AS is almost regarded along the lines of addiction. It's not something you chose, but it has a stigma attached to it. The stigma needs to go. We each need to find our own way to help get rid of it.

Well, look how many come here with their story, just now finding out about the spectrum (at least the younger ones), looking for company that understands them? How many come here thinking there is something wrong with them? As long as they stay here, among WP friends, they are safe. How many are children or young adults? Are the younger ones, the ones that look up to others on this board learning to cope in a way that benefits their future? Is the way the adults react benefiting our youth's future? Do we lead by example? And maybe you don't feel you owe anything to future generations and then this conversation is over. But when the conversation is over, hope is lost. I really do hope I am reading your post the wrong way. And if that is the case, I offer sincere apologies. I just have, uhm, strong feelings on the subject. Bet you couldn't tell.

Why isn't anyone hoisting the banner for those like me or worse? You know, people with autistic disorder have an even greater cognitive pattern; the "real" geniuses in certain subjects reside here, not "aspies".

O wait....

That's why I distrust Wikipedia. I always check the facts from much more reputable sources before following them. The editing discussions can be stunningly idiotic as well.

And in regards to Inventor's post about psychology, as a psychology student at college, I definately believe that it is a tool, and as such can be misused. But it can also be used to greatly help others with their lives.

Inventor, that was one helluva manifest, a rich a stunning expression of Self.

I should clarify that my interest in neurodiversity is not to create a group identify for all of us, nor to advocate a protected class, nor to claim any disability.

I wish the AS label were never invented. I grew up without it and I am glad of that.



Now that's it's here, and a new generation is being branded with it (and the next generation may be 'screened' out), they are being told what minority groups have always been told :
You Are Less.

But blacks aren't less, jews aren't less, women aren't less. They aren't even "blacks" or "jews" or "women". They aren't even a 'They'.

My own view is that on the whole the AS/HFA has driven most of human progress. Our group did indeed steal fire from the gods (thank you, Tesla). If anything, I could be described as a "neurosupremacist." These are my personal views tho, I would not form them into public declarations, as this would be telling the NT's that They Are Less.

To me, the neurodiversity does not say "cut us some slack" or "forgive me". It says "appreciate me for what I am or leave me alone. I am not less. I just might be More." Broad public statements that We Are Less should be publically challenged.

In 1998 Harvey Blume coined the term Neurodiversity in a newspaper article. By a strange twist of fate, Harvey is a good friend of mine. An NT friend. A very insightful friend. He used the term first, and I still think he used it best :


Blume, Harvey, "Neurodiversity", The Atlantic, New York City, Sept 30, 1998
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199809u/neurodiversity

If I was concerned with other people's opinions, I would never get anything done.

Last edited by Inventor on 03 Dec 2007, 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The problem I've seen with Wikipedia is what Jimbo Wales has pointed out. Anonymity does not bring out the best in people. They are more hostile, less cooperative. There is also what economists call a "race to the bottom." People who - let's face it - are not exactly busy writing the great american novel and spend huge amounts of time there - claim defacto ownership over 'their' articles. They imagine themselves "senior editors" of this presumably non hierarchical assemblage.

When people more expert in these areas show up with good research, maybe to put in an hour or two, the bottom-dweller is sometimes threatened and makes spurious objections. The newcomer may hang around and argue and argue and pursue the matter thru administrative arbitration - but if the newcomer is any good he values his time; he has better things to do for which he will get personal credit.

Result : A race to the bottom. The anonymous, volunteer project becomes the sole property of those who cling to it most tightly, whose name does not matter and whose work is not worth buying.

This is evident from wikipedia's guidelines. They were clearly written in reaction to what people did : Be Civil. Be Welcoming. No Angry Mastedons. Don't be scared off by grumpy users. Don't be a Dick. Assume Good Faith in others.

Nobody writes that first.

To give an example, I recently came across an wikipedia article on Colonic Irrigation. This is the bizarre practice of giving people a massive enema in the belief that toxins "build up" on the walls of the colon. It's a belief that predates modern surgery, which showed in 1920 that nothing at all builds up in the colon.

The article extolled the virtues of this practice. There was a section on controversy ... the controversy was over whether the practice cured just 3 diseases or 7.

The article was a pro colonic irrigation ad. I fixed it. I added that the FDA has ruled it is illegal to sell and distribute equipment for this purpose. That the California department of health has said it is a pointless and risky procedure and that no doctor or clinician should perform it.

My fixes won't last. Somebody has an interest in pushing bad medicine and will undo my changes. They will say nasty things in the Talk page. I'd have to care as much about keeping it balanced as they care about biasing it. I don't, for the precise reason i have no personal interest in the matter either way.

Wikipedia is fine as a cut-and-paste repository for such information as the structure of a carbon crystal. For information regarding human beings, it is a massive disinformation pump.

Aaah! Wall of Text!!

*runs away*

I won't double post this:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt53562.html

It's been hell..."Lord of the Flies" live, online...and the worst of it is that they AREN'T teenagers.

As far as I know, last time I looked I had been tried, convicted and wantonly vilified for:

a) Things I didn't do.
b) Things that were done to me.
c) Things that didn't even happen

...and I suspect even a few things that are actually physically impossible...but then again, in my experience when people are doing things they know, deep down inside, they should be ashamed of, they tend to go overboard and get carried away trying to maximise the harm they do to "the designated target" (aka "me") like that.

Disgusting...last time I looked arbcom were doing their level best to link all that slander and vilification to my real life identity without actually breaking their own rules, sooner or later they will ignore the rules and just do it anyway, as they they did with everything else in that arbcom.

But not everybody...some people really were amazing, I'd name them but, if I did, I suspect they would become *targets* in their turn...they know who they are anyway...

M