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Is there an opposite to Autism
Poll ended at 06 Apr 2008, 1:46 am
Yes 71%  71%  [ 32 ]
No 29%  29%  [ 13 ]
Total votes : 45

fernando
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01 Jan 2009, 4:40 pm

Alpha males.

Only for males though, the things that come to my mind when i think of alpha females are not the opposite of female aspies.


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marshall
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01 Jan 2009, 4:45 pm

James Bond



Prof_Pretorius
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01 Jan 2009, 8:34 pm

LabPet wrote:
the opposite of autism: William's Syndrome.

I do not too much about William's Syndrome, but the only overlap between William's Syndrome and Autism is musical ability. Otherwise, WS is characterized by, yes, opposite traits of autism. Those with WS are invariably mildly mentally ret*d but highly social, very likeable, etc. They do have some facial physical characteristic too (elfish sharp features) If you're curious, you can check out WS on Wikipedia, or google. Interesting!


Weird, but they are our mirror image. They are overly talkative, like people right away, love music so much that when someone is playing they will play along, so start dancing. Very spontaneous, and uninhibiting around strangers. They can do something like sing opera in thrity different languages, but can't make change.
Fascinating creatures .....


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08 May 2010, 10:43 pm

My nephew has Williams Syndrome. Yes, William Syndrome people are very social, they have no social fears. They just go up to any stranger and start talking to them, often getting themselves in trouble. My nephew cannot not grasp mathematics, period. His verbal skill are way below average, but because he is social, its hard to detect not only that his verbal skills are deficient, but that he's even severely mentally disabled. Most children with Down's Syndrome probably score higher than he on intelligence tests. The one area where he has average ability is in music. While he's not a musical genius, he can play in an orchestra, band or sing in a choir with people his own age.



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08 May 2010, 10:56 pm

chinapig wrote:
...dyslexia?




I've heard certain people, even a few professionals, refer to NVLD as "reverse dyslexia".


I think this implies a very sweeping generalization of the two disorders.



Horus
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08 May 2010, 11:36 pm

LabPet wrote:
Just speaking diagnostically (I'm not inserting my opinion or value judgment), there is a disorder considered the opposite of autism: William's Syndrome.

I do not too much about William's Syndrome, but the only overlap between William's Syndrome and Autism is musical ability. Otherwise, WS is characterized by, yes, opposite traits of autism. Those with WS are invariably mildly mentally ret*d but highly social, very likeable, etc. They do have some facial physical characteristic too (elfish sharp features) If you're curious, you can check out WS on Wikipedia, or google. Interesting!


Has it been proven that musical ability among people with ASDs is disproportionately greater than the NT population? I know it is for those with WS....i'm not sure if that's also the case with ASDs. Also....those with WS often exhibit very extreme NVLD characteristics
in terms of visual-spatial reasoning, problems with math, etc....Not that ALL NLD-ers exhibit these problems, but they're common enough. NLD-ers and Aspies seem to have little in common with WS individuals in terms of the common social deficits among the former. Since "social deficits" are not a monolithic thing though, there may be a few commonalites in that area as well. The bolded part below might be one of them. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with underdeveloped dorsal area in those with NVLD/AS though.

In her book "Evil Genes", Barbara Oakley claims Williams syndrome might be termed "antipsychopathy" and is perhaps, "the most endearing of all diseases".

To paraphrase the Oakley book..."The medial pre-frontal cortex is perennially activated in WS individuals. This area of the brain is associated with empathy and knowledge of how to interact socially. Also...the ventral area of the brain is overdeveloped in WS. This area is associated with language, emotions and social drive". This in turn results in an underdeveloped dorsal area, which is associated with mathematics, space and recognizing the intentions of others".



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09 May 2010, 12:37 am

I started a thread on this subject before I saw this one. I envision a spectrum which includes everyone from the most autistic to the least. The most extreme NT I can think of is a politician with machiavellian tendencies.


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09 May 2010, 12:56 am

Horus wrote:

Has it been proven that musical ability among people with ASDs is disproportionately greater than the NT population?


Yes. The talent to perceive structure that is confirmed in ASDs some times expresses itself in musical ability.


Quote:
In her book "Evil Genes", Barbara Oakley claims Williams syndrome might be termed "antipsychopathy" and is perhaps, "the most endearing of all diseases".


Ugh. No. Having met a WS individual, I can say that their behavior gets old really fast. Sure, I'll quickly tire of people, but spending a day with an WSer would tax most regular folks. They know how to talk, but its all superficial stuff and they are more poorly skilled at conversational reciprocation than most aspies. They dont know when to shut up.

The problem with superficial conversation is that sooner or later you will run out of topics and have to start fresh.

Conversation follows a certain structure. Light and superficial topics(like WS people use) allow the participants to find a common interest which leads to deeper talk(where the WS people cannot go). If a common ground is not found, the participants will look for conversation elsewhere. Small talk is relatively short term. A calling card of sorts.

Its possible for WS people to have deeper knowledge and interests of course and invariably they will. But if you have a 70 IQ what you consider a stimulating conversation is going to bore the hell out of average people. Your knowledge will be all breadth and no depth and even then you wont have the breadth of an average person.


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09 May 2010, 2:35 am

Fuzzy wrote:
Its possible for WS people to have deeper knowledge and interests of course and invariably they will. But if you have a 70 IQ what you consider a stimulating conversation is going to bore the hell out of average people. Your knowledge will be all breadth and no depth and even then you wont have the breadth of an average person.


I've known a lot of people with IQ 70 and below and that is not at all my experience of conversing with them. Anyone can have depth.


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09 May 2010, 2:54 am

anbuend wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
Its possible for WS people to have deeper knowledge and interests of course and invariably they will. But if you have a 70 IQ what you consider a stimulating conversation is going to bore the hell out of average people. Your knowledge will be all breadth and no depth and even then you wont have the breadth of an average person.


I've known a lot of people with IQ 70 and below and that is not at all my experience of conversing with them. Anyone can have depth.



I wouldn't necessarily disagree even if the score is truly representative of their overall cognitive abilites.

Correct me if i'm wrong though, but i'm guessing at least some of the people you're referring to just performed poorly on IQ tests for reasons having little or nothing to do
with their ultimate cognitive potential....if there even is such a thing.

Sorry if my terminology here irks you........but I can think of no better terms when discussing this nebulous, subjective, multi-dimensional, etc....*thing* usually referred to as intelligence.



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09 May 2010, 4:32 am

People with williams syndrome often have several autistic traits. They have even more impaired motor skills than most autistic people and they do not have good social skills usually. Most of them are just extremely extraverted. Someone with williams syndrome is very similar to an extraverted autistic person.



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09 May 2010, 4:33 am

Some yes. Most no. Most were only diagnosed with MR and nothing else. Met them through school, day programs, self-advocacy groups and conferences, and various programs through agencies that provided me services. People with MR are no less deep than anyone else, they just have trouble with certain kinds of thinking or learning. And many even with IQs in the 40s could pass for normal or close to it so a person can't even necessarily know that the person they're talking to has a disability unless a speech impediment or something gives them away.


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09 May 2010, 4:47 am

I live with a girl who likely has williams syndrome. She was diagnosed with some kind of chromosonal disorder as a child but she forgot what its called. Her health problems, appearance and psychological symptoms, and personality are very consistant with williams syndrome although she is intelligent but only 75% of people with WS are intellectally challanged. Were not entirely sure if she has WS or something else but no other chromosonal disorder fits so its 90% likely thats what she was diagnosed with. Im actually driving her to seattle childrens hospital this week to pick up her karyotype test to confirm what she has exactly. We also rent our spare room out to a psychopath. Its very interesting here.



Fuzzy
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09 May 2010, 9:18 am

Horus wrote:
anbuend wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
Its possible for WS people to have deeper knowledge and interests of course and invariably they will. But if you have a 70 IQ what you consider a stimulating conversation is going to bore the hell out of average people. Your knowledge will be all breadth and no depth and even then you wont have the breadth of an average person.


I've known a lot of people with IQ 70 and below and that is not at all my experience of conversing with them. Anyone can have depth.



I wouldn't necessarily disagree even if the score is truly representative of their overall cognitive abilites.

Correct me if i'm wrong though, but i'm guessing at least some of the people you're referring to just performed poorly on IQ tests for reasons having little or nothing to do
with their ultimate cognitive potential....if there even is such a thing.

Sorry if my terminology here irks you........but I can think of no better terms when discussing this nebulous, subjective, multi-dimensional, etc....*thing* usually referred to as intelligence.


It bugged the hell out of me to fall back to the term IQ.

I think a person with what is considered average intelligence is going to be more pragmatic and effective than someone like me who tests higher. Rather than cognitive ranking, I think people have locus of interests. By that means a carpenter and a pastor could have a meaningful conversation despite very different ways of thinking. On the other hand, a Carpenter might think than an architect is an idiot despite working in related fields. Of course the architect would traditionally be considered more intelligent than a carpenter.

I get along well with downs and hydrocephalus syndrome folks. Something about their approach and conversational style fits well with me. They might not have a lot of technical interests, but they have an earnestness and careful way that puts me at ease. Like anbuend said, depth doesnt always correlate with intelligence.


The main person I was thinking of has that distinctly elfin appearance of a WS person. 'Meeting' her the first time involved her rushing up and asking me what sort of sandwich i was eating. Before I could answer, she went into a tangent about the types that she liked. She had just entered the premises loudly greeted the whole place (there were only the staff and I present), and instead of ordering, came over to me.

Since I still had not said anything(my mouth was full), she then segued into the weather and various other topics. I admit some confusion and was wondering where she knew me from to be that un-timid and voluble. Mind you, she wasnt speaking rapid fire the way an attention deficit person sometimes can. She spoke at a fairly normal pace, though she did not seem to require any reciprocative speech. She was pretty loud.

She seemed oblivious to the fact that I was busy with food and a news paper.

So yeah, poor social skills, but a gift for conversation.


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Logan5
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09 May 2010, 9:47 am

"A Genetic Drive To Love, Yet Distanced By Differences"
by Alix Spiegel
NPR, Morning Edition
May 3, 2010

"People with Williams syndrome — a rare genetic disorder with a variety of symptoms — are known for being almost compulsively loving and trusting. The syndrome is often called the "anti-autism" because people with Williams, rather than isolating themselves from others, are hyper-social. Children with Williams, for example, often climb into cars with perfect strangers or tell random salespeople that they love them."

Full text and audio:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =126396171



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09 May 2010, 11:27 am

In psychology last November when we were studying the Baron Cohen studies the teacher was going to show us a documentary about autism, and the teacher mentioned AS and someone goes "is that the opposite of autism?"
I wish :lmao:


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