Aspergers and above average IQ
I think aspie-rant put it best, its largely to do with the maths.
Of course IQ's are highly questionable as a way to assess intelligence, they are nortoriously terrible at even passing over to different cultures and subgroups within the same culture. I would question their reletiveness on a person with aspergers syndrome as I doubt people with that neurotype were used enough or in the right ways when designing the IQ system.
I rarely meet nt's who care about IQ. It doesn't seem to affect the lives of a large part of the population. I'd expect a higher average in a group who find a test that gives them a number. A number that signifies a false achievement when the world presents so many pitfalls.
Why is there so much debate over who is in or out of the Aspie gang? There are a number of different ATTEMPTS at criteria. Non of which are set in stone. All have current grey areas and all room for future adjustment as study and debate continues. So surely the whole black/white is/isn't is totally missing the point?
So if a subsection of Aspie like people contain a large number of Aspie traits, more maybe than a subsection of other Aspie diagnosed people, but because they don't have all the currently CHOSEN significant traits as listed in ONE specific criteria, at ONE specific point in time. Are you saying they are somehow less Aspie?
Lets all treat the use of the English language like it has a clear well defined syntax and that we have Aspie rules that have been set in stone for millennia wooo!! !!
As someone pointed out, comparing Aspie and NT intelligence is like apples and oranges. There are different kinds of intelligence. Consider the following:
1. In-depth thinking and analytical ability
2. Savant computation
3. Organizational, prioritization and management skills
4. Communication, linguistic and PR skills
5. Planning skills
6. Ability to keep things in perspective
7. Ability to learn from one's mistakes
8. Ability to live within one's means
9. Family cohesion skills and the ability to have one partner for life
10. Ability to be consistent
11. Insight, intuition, non-linear thinking, wisdom and spiritual enlightenment
12. Architectural, design, and artistic ability
13. Ability to compose symphonies and savant musical skills
14. Mechanical and construction skills
15. Leadership skills including ability to inspire and unite
16. Ordinary and savant healing/diagnostic skills
17. Litigation skills of argument, debate and persuasion
Any more?
I just took something like an IQ test that is given to anyone in the State of Florida that wants it. It's called the "Work Keys" Test, and you can give the
results to potential employers, government and civilian. I would recommend to everyone who is job hunting to go to their state unemployment office
to take it. I think most states have something similar.
There are Levels 1-7 on Reading, Math and Locating Information - which is reading graphs, charts, stock reports, etc. I scored Level 7 on Reading and
Level 5 on Math and Locating Info. This makes me "Gold Certified" (ie, scoring 5 or above on all three tests). I'll use any advantage I can get in doing
well in interviews. What I lack in social skills, I make up in proving intelligence. This is an Aspie adaptive technique I guess you can say.
I always scored higher on verbal exams than on math. I did a little studing to pass the math test.. havn't done that in a while!
And let's keep in mind while discussing IQs that I don't believe it is something you are born with. Nor is IQ static. You can raise your IQ by hard work
and having educational materials and inspiration available to you. It's the same with dancing, music, arts, or whatever interests you.
I find the whole subject fascinating.
First there is the stereotype of the brilliant "nerd" who is great at computers or math but a bit autistic.
I read a book on the subject of creative genius. It gave many examples including Rudyard Kipling. It pointed out that many creative people had unhappy and lonely childhoods.
That does not make them autistic as such but the "outer world" was so unpleasant that they withdrew deep into their own "inner world" and that was the font of their creativity.
Anyway, here are a couple of interesting sites about IQ:
http://www.lagriffedulion.f2s.com/
http://isteve.blogspot.com/
DentArthurDent, personally speaking I can recall how my iq at one time 11yrs ago had been in the 100 range but, just as recently as 2002 when tested for Aspergers I acquired the score ranging in numerical value from 82-89 which, simply means--slow learner .However, though one has to take into account that often people in the autistic spectrum are not always the best test subects in these cases as, I feel intelligence in itself is not merely a number but, rather abilities of how your able to deal with things as well, using inherent knowledge to the best of your capacity.. Not forgetting the fact, in 2001 I had suffered a coma which, brought about some irreversible brain damage in the area of memory and executive functioning still, my point being is, no one on this planet is the proverbial genius just, some of us have talents which allow us to go about things in a more effecient or effective manner...
ProfessorX
general_piffle
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- Swedish study, children from age 5 to 18 with Asperger's Syndrome, 9% with mild mental retardation (<70), 35% near average (70-84), 39% average (85-115), 17% above average (>115)
- Another Swedish study, 40 children sample group with IQ scores of at least 70 (ages 6-15), average Full Scale IQ of 102, Verbal IQ of 108.4, Performance IQ of 95.6
Source: Asperger's syndrome: intervening in schools, clinics, and communities, by Linda J. Baker, Lawrence A. Welkowitz
Same for me, 130, i don't think it's accurate though as i've took other tests and the result is around 110. I have Dyscalculia and i think this might not be good for some IQ tests...
Asperger's by definition means no IQ below 70, and there is no upper IQ limit. Therefore, compared to the general population (where about 2.5% have an IQ below 70), Aspies do have statistically a slightly higher IQ. Also, it is quite possible that some classic auties with high IQs get (mis)diagnosed with AS instead because of their high IQ. However, all of this is of course no proof that all Aspies have above-average IQs. Besides, a high IQ is no guarantee for success in any way, so I don't see why the high IQ argument matters to "Aspie elitists" anyway.
I think it is pretty widely accepted that a numerical IQ is simply unable to "rate" intelligence except for a fairly narrow range of cognitive "normality". For me the argument becomes spurious but nonetheless fascinating to watch. It reminds me of Shrek "do you think he's compensating for something".
I am 42, diagnosed Aspergers at Tony Attwood's clinic in 2006. I usually score around 39 on the AQ and 138 on "standard IQ" tests.
I am a university lecturer teaching music and audio production and completing a Doctorate of Musical Arts on the impact of my autistic traits on composition, musical perception and collaboration. It will be published on the web next year and I'll be posting links here.
Anyway, point is that there are so many different measures as to what makes a "successful" human. This was really pushed home for me when I read about different forms of empathy - (I'm a 9 on the EQ but a compassionate person) - particularly this one
Rogers, K., Dziobek, I., Hassenstab, J., Wolf, O. T., & Convit, A. (2007). Who cares? Revisiting empathy in asperger syndrome. J Autism Dev Disord, 37(4), 709-15.
I am looking for the source of a quote along the lines that being Aspie knocks 20 points off your IQ - a bit like being perpetually drunk. I have in the back of mind that I've seen it or heard it somewhere, but if no-one can point me in the right direction, I'm going to claim it myself!
Wrong Planet syndrome or perpetually pissed syndrome? BTW, I gave up alcohol 25 years ago because i didn't like not being in control!!
Blindspot149
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Location: Aspergers Quadrant, INTJ, AQ 45/50
I believe that it is an accepted trait (by neurological and psychological etc professionals) that those with AS have average OR above average intelligence.
A basic understanding of the bell curve, or just simply averages, would seem to suggest that the overall 'average' intelligence for those with AS must therefore be ABOVE the population average, regardless of what is posted on this forum.
_________________
Now then, tell me. What did Miggs say to you? Multiple Miggs in the next cell. He hissed at you. What did he say?
Blindspot149
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Joined: 7 Oct 2009
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Posts: 2,516
Location: Aspergers Quadrant, INTJ, AQ 45/50
I believe that it is an accepted trait (by neurological and psychological etc professionals) that those with AS have average OR above average intelligence.
A basic understanding of the bell curve, or just simply averages, would seem to suggest that the overall 'average' intelligence for those with AS must therefore be ABOVE the population average, regardless of what is posted on this forum.
_________________
Now then, tell me. What did Miggs say to you? Multiple Miggs in the next cell. He hissed at you. What did he say?
melissa17b
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Age: 64
Gender: Female
Posts: 420
Location: A long way from home, wherever home is
While I can't help you with the source of the quote, I will agree with this point - if you were to devise a measure of overall functioning and calibrate it to "IQ scale"; i.e., mean=100 and standard deviation=15; you would probably find that autism results in a substantial depression in the functional score relative to "cognitive IQ", and the degree of that depression would probably be a good indicator of the severity of the person's autism.
I find it very dis-ingenuous for a person with under 200 posts to accuse a person with well-over 3000 of "trolling".
Creep.
I, too have a markedly (as well as "official") low IQ and am considered on the high end of the spectrum (ASD). Perhaps A_L would like to call up my doctor and correct her knowledge. I'm sure she'd appreciate the education.
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