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Ectryon
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31 Mar 2015, 5:35 pm

Wow so ive just realised for the first time that im very self destructive. I posted this here because the tools of self destruction are often very dark. For me its been so diverse that I dont know where to start. It was my social situation that made me aware of this so that's the best place to begin I guess. I constantly sabotage any hope of a healthy relationship with anyone. Ive always said that "something happens" "something mysterious". Turns out there's a pattern where its me doing the destroying.

I've looked into something called masochistic personality disorder and it has really deepened my understanding of this further.

But where do I go now? How do I address this? How can I heal the relationships that have been destroyed by this? How do I tell people?


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Ectryon
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31 Mar 2015, 5:54 pm


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My history on this forum preserves my old and unregenerate self. In the years since I posted here I have undergone many changes. I accept responsibility for my posts but I no longer stand behind them.
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And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high Hebrews 1:3


androbot01
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31 Mar 2015, 8:56 pm

I have a tendency to self destruction in relationships and other things too.

At the moment, I'm feeling a bit edgy because things are going well (touch wood.) I'm in a motivational employment rehab program and am meeting new people. The other day I bought a bottle of wine and I didn't finish it. And since I had that Norwalkie thing last week I've been sticking to my e-cigarette instead of tobacco. Too my things are going right for me not to snap into self-sabotage...I haven't maintained this level of positivity in over 20 years.

For me, the sabotage takes the form of negative thinking and being overwhelmed by my emotions of the moment. I'm too passionate and unbalanced in my reactions to perceived failure.



Ectryon
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01 Apr 2015, 10:53 am

androbot01 wrote:
I have a tendency to self destruction in relationships and other things too.

At the moment, I'm feeling a bit edgy because things are going well (touch wood.) I'm in a motivational employment rehab program and am meeting new people. The other day I bought a bottle of wine and I didn't finish it. And since I had that Norwalkie thing last week I've been sticking to my e-cigarette instead of tobacco. Too my things are going right for me not to snap into self-sabotage...I haven't maintained this level of positivity in over 20 years.

For me, the sabotage takes the form of negative thinking and being overwhelmed by my emotions of the moment. I'm too passionate and unbalanced in my reactions to perceived failure.


Im so happy for you. You're aware of it and you're tackling it!! ! How did you realise that you were self destructive


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My history on this forum preserves my old and unregenerate self. In the years since I posted here I have undergone many changes. I accept responsibility for my posts but I no longer stand behind them.
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And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high Hebrews 1:3


androbot01
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01 Apr 2015, 11:29 am

Ectryon wrote:
How did you realise that you were self destructive


Thanks!
It wasn't hard. I started cutting myself when I was 12 years old. But I didn't realize how pervasive it is until lately. So many bad thinking patterns to get rid of.

I guess the pattern developed because of having so many actual failures, I figured I may a well skuttle myself.



Ectryon
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01 Apr 2015, 2:31 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Ectryon wrote:
How did you realise that you were self destructive


Thanks!
It wasn't hard. I started cutting myself when I was 12 years old. But I didn't realize how pervasive it is until lately. So many bad thinking patterns to get rid of.

I guess the pattern developed because of having so many actual failures, I figured I may a well skuttle myself.


Same here. I was aware of it my whole life but assumed that it was only really obvious stuff. I used to ride my bicycle down a very steep road without my hands on the handlebars. This road was well used and had I fallen I would have been hurt alot. It was just another self sabotaging/harming behaviour I guess. I only just realised that that was self injurious. Im not a thrill seeker at all and its totally out of character for me to do that but that death drive is strong I guess


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My history on this forum preserves my old and unregenerate self. In the years since I posted here I have undergone many changes. I accept responsibility for my posts but I no longer stand behind them.
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And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high Hebrews 1:3


Adamantium
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02 Apr 2015, 8:46 am

Very interesting thread.

I think this is a common issue. I certainly have a bit of this--not in relationships, but in other areas of life.

Thanks for sharing these thoughts.



Ectryon
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02 Apr 2015, 6:50 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Very interesting thread.

I think this is a common issue. I certainly have a bit of this--not in relationships, but in other areas of life.

Thanks for sharing these thoughts.


It really is. Freud played with the idea of the death drive which is a counter intuitive force within us. I think he went on to say it was the antagonist to Eros (Eros vs Thanatos). I dont know about that but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_drive this article describes the various ways that human beings torture themselves.

For me it stems from the self loathing I feel. I cant bear to look at myself most of the time because ive internalised all the hatred I feel coming at me from the outside. I then project that felt hatred back onto people so that I interpret all their behaviours in a negative light and eventually the prophecy starts to self fulfil. It sort of has to because the abused inner self is validated through the confirmation that its worthless. When it sees love or affection it hits out because those things are totally counter to its nature.

I think it might be an error to think of the self destructive force as a separate region of the self. It IS the self. It feels like im actually raging against the hatred im directing in on myself. Its one of those impossible ourobouros type things I guess. I suppose you might say that hatred is a weapon which is capable of splitting the self into a self defeating cycle


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My history on this forum preserves my old and unregenerate self. In the years since I posted here I have undergone many changes. I accept responsibility for my posts but I no longer stand behind them.
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And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high Hebrews 1:3


Ectryon
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02 Apr 2015, 7:33 pm

I can see the tendencies in so much now its phenomenal. Mindfullness meditation is a must because the process we have to go through to lick this is identical. I sometimes get myself lost in these arena like death tournaments inside my head. I'll be running or fighting or escaping and suddenly i'll come to and im in fight or flight mode! I play out these scenarios over and over and become helplessly lost in them as a form of self punishment. Its fascinating and harrowing at the same time.

The unconscious mind is far deeper and operates on a precognitive level, that is the conscious mind is in fact lagging behind the unconscious. The death drive is the observed effect of self hatred I think. Self hatred in fact creates conditions where such an absurd paradox can exist.

Or maybe its a case of the neglected or beaten child internalising the abusive identity and inflicting it on themselves in order to obtain approval.

Ive taken on the collective hatred of all the people who have ever rejected me and this sets the death drive in motion: "You're worthless you dont deserve that relationship" "You dont deserve this house this car that wife or even this life". Its an inevitable downward spiral.

To heal I have to let go of that need to win approval in order to validate my identity. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be liked but when you need that to confirm that you're a worthwhile person it sours and becomes poison. In order to rid oneself of that need I think that self love is key. Validation has to be an internal process.


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My history on this forum preserves my old and unregenerate self. In the years since I posted here I have undergone many changes. I accept responsibility for my posts but I no longer stand behind them.
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And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high Hebrews 1:3


Amity
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03 Apr 2015, 5:06 am

I am my own wrecking ball. I know that on the unconscious level I hate myself for things I can't change, but consciously I try to love myself as I am. Perhaps you are right about self inflicting an abusive identity.

Today for example I am fighting the urge to self destruct, because in the eyes of others I am of no use, and have no value, the love and affection seemed real, I wanted to believe it was real, I stupidly believed that people can change and grow, some people can't. They can make superficial alterations, but not to their core identity; the true colours that are shown in difficult circumstances, their default mode. This is the downside to opening up to people you think you can trust, it leaves you open and vulnerable.
Is it possible to alter the unconscious mind, as in can self validation occur at a deeper level, when the default mode is a deeply rooted self loathing? I think being conscious of the self hatred allows for retrospective remedial actions only.



guzzle
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03 Apr 2015, 5:48 am

Amity wrote:
Is it possible to alter the unconscious mind, as in can self validation occur at a deeper level, when the default mode is a deeply rooted self loathing? I think being conscious of the self hatred allows for retrospective remedial actions only.


I had to learn to like myself. Not that I loathed me, I was way too detached for that, living in my own world with no real realization my actions affected others.
Then I started to dislike myself because I realized I really was an inconsiderate twat.
Then I sort of realized there were loads of inconsiderate twats in the world.
And I felt a little better about myself.
And every day I liked myself a little more.

Quote:
I stupidly believed that people can change and grow, some people can't. They can make superficial alterations, but not to their core identity; the true colours that are shown in difficult


Oh but they could. It's too hard work and scary though so they don't. It's like dancing with your skeletons in the cupboard as a tortured soul once put it to me.
But I was me and I guess eventually I learned to like myself enough to accept me with all the wart and bumps.



guzzle
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03 Apr 2015, 6:13 am

Ectryon wrote:

But where do I go now? How do I address this? How can I heal the relationships that have been destroyed by this? How do I tell people?


Some relationships can't be healed because the other person will not want to develop their awareness. Others will be too stuck in their own ideologies.
I did a lot of reading. I became wary of New Age hype. I listened to few. I watched and learned. Sometimes the hard way. But sometimes they were the best lessons. I had a few solid friends over the years. Most had emotional baggage of their own so were more tolerating than the ones without.
Don't tell people. Unless you find a common ground and they carry emotional baggage of their own but beware of the leech types that drain you emotionally and you lift them up whilst all they really doing is drag you down.
Desiderata helped me too. It helped me to put things in perspective.
If I can't (be bothered to learn to) love myself it's pretty unreasonable to expect anyone to (be bothered to) love me is the biggest conclusion I came to in the end :wink:

I still struggle. I probably always will. But I'm content in my own being now. And that makes the last 30+ years worth it :wink:



Ectryon
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03 Apr 2015, 10:04 am

guzzle wrote:
Ectryon wrote:

But where do I go now? How do I address this? How can I heal the relationships that have been destroyed by this? How do I tell people?


Some relationships can't be healed because the other person will not want to develop their awareness. Others will be too stuck in their own ideologies.
I did a lot of reading. I became wary of New Age hype. I listened to few. I watched and learned. Sometimes the hard way. But sometimes they were the best lessons. I had a few solid friends over the years. Most had emotional baggage of their own so were more tolerating than the ones without.
Don't tell people. Unless you find a common ground and they carry emotional baggage of their own but beware of the leech types that drain you emotionally and you lift them up whilst all they really doing is drag you down.
Desiderata helped me too. It helped me to put things in perspective.
If I can't (be bothered to learn to) love myself it's pretty unreasonable to expect anyone to (be bothered to) love me is the biggest conclusion I came to in the end :wink:

I still struggle. I probably always will. But I'm content in my own being now. And that makes the last 30+ years worth it :wink:

Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be critical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.
With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.

© Max Ehrmann 1927


Is this what you mean Guzzle?


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My history on this forum preserves my old and unregenerate self. In the years since I posted here I have undergone many changes. I accept responsibility for my posts but I no longer stand behind them.
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And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high Hebrews 1:3


guzzle
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03 Apr 2015, 3:19 pm

Yup, that be the one :D