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PlainsAspie
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20 Nov 2014, 2:57 pm

This is frustrating news, I think there needs to be more teeth to these rules.

http://www.disabilityscoop.com/2014/11/ ... int/19809/



Moromillas
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20 Nov 2014, 4:51 pm

Doesn't say what disability, they could be talking exclusively about NTs.



PlainsAspie
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20 Nov 2014, 7:22 pm

68% of student subject to restraint or seclusion were in the 2008-2009 school year were autistic.

http://www.thinkingautismguide.com/2012 ... hilds.html



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21 Nov 2014, 4:07 am

This is one of the many reasons why people need to take AS schools seriously, where it would be the norm to wind down a meltdown, before it reaches a full blown meltdown.

Not, pull out some WWE, lay the smackth down on thy candy ass, when it reaches full blown, they're kids, it's absolutely infuriating.



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21 Nov 2014, 4:11 am

What would be a better alternative to dealing with violent students?


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PlainsAspie
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21 Nov 2014, 10:24 am

League_Girl wrote:
What would be a better alternative to dealing with violent students?


I'm not against restraint in situations where a student poses a danger to him/herself or to property and I'm not aware of any state where they don't have exceptions for those circumstances.



Moromillas
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21 Nov 2014, 2:01 pm

League_Girl wrote:
What would be a better alternative to dealing with violent students?


One of the vile stigmas is that AS people, kids especially, are inherently violent, and it's just BS. If someone is given authority, and the responsibility of taking care of kids, and they're unable to understand, or can't tell the difference between violence and a meltdown, I'm not comfortable with them being around AS kids.



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21 Nov 2014, 2:59 pm

Moromillas wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
What would be a better alternative to dealing with violent students?


One of the vile stigmas is that AS people, kids especially, are inherently violent, and it's just BS. If someone is given authority, and the responsibility of taking care of kids, and they're unable to understand, or can't tell the difference between violence and a meltdown, I'm not comfortable with them being around AS kids.



I wasn't talking about AS, I was talking about kids in general who are violent. Also meltdowns is not a free pass to harming others and throwing furniture at people or trying to stab others with scissors or knives or anything sharp that can be used as a weapon. People have a right to a safe environment. Meltdowns do not target at people. Which is it? People on here say those are not meltdowns and then other members here call them meltdowns.

Okay if I were to have a meltdown at home because my dad took the TV remote again so I broke windows, threw my kids and my infant daughter down the stairs, burned down the house, I did not do child abuse or arson nor was I violent because I had a meltdown.


Also I would not want my kids around those children if they do those "meltdowns" and my parents certainly did not want me with kids with violent behaviors when my school wanted me in a behavior program.


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21 Nov 2014, 4:56 pm

League_Girl wrote:
Moromillas wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
What would be a better alternative to dealing with violent students?


One of the vile stigmas is that AS people, kids especially, are inherently violent, and it's just BS. If someone is given authority, and the responsibility of taking care of kids, and they're unable to understand, or can't tell the difference between violence and a meltdown, I'm not comfortable with them being around AS kids.



I wasn't talking about AS, I was talking about kids in general who are violent. Also meltdowns is not a free pass to harming others and throwing furniture at people or trying to stab others with scissors or knives or anything sharp that can be used as a weapon. People have a right to a safe environment. Meltdowns do not target at people. Which is it? People on here say those are not meltdowns and then other members here call them meltdowns.

Okay if I were to have a meltdown at home because my dad took the TV remote again so I broke windows, threw my kids and my infant daughter down the stairs, burned down the house, I did not do child abuse or arson nor was I violent because I had a meltdown.


Also I would not want my kids around those children if they do those "meltdowns" and my parents certainly did not want me with kids with violent behaviors when my school wanted me in a behavior program.


What that is, is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a meltdown is, and it's a little disturbing quite frankly.

You talk about using it as a "free pass", this implies that the person having the meltdown should be held accountable for it. Er, no, no they shouldn't, not even a little bit, nor should kids be made to guilty about it. A full blown meltdown, you don't have control over, and it's not your fault when you don't. It's the equivalent of punishing someone for having a seizure, or passing out, that's full-on crap that needs to be flushed.

Then you give the example of a meltdown being caused by Dad taking the TV remote away, meltdowns are not caused this way, that is simply a tantrum. If you were to give the remote back, they would instantly stop, that's because it's not a meltdown, it's a tantrum, a power-play to get what they want. During a meltdown, you wouldn't just suddenly stop having a meltdown because you got a TV remote back, that's nonsense, you don't have that level of control over a meltdown.

This utter crap of "they're going to start grabbing things like scissors and use them as a weapon where they might kill someone", needs to be shoved into a metal box, encased in concrete and dumped in the middle of the ocean.



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21 Nov 2014, 5:34 pm

When I have a meltdown, I yell or cry and I have all these feelings I hate having and I am very upset. From what I understand what a tantrum is, people with it do not feel this way and they just choose to do this and are faking it, I am not. Back in the days they used to call these tantrums, now everyone is calling it a meltdown. Even the word is being used on NT children when they cry when they don't get their way or didn't want to leave places. I do calm down afterwards but I still feel different inside while a person with a tantrum will feel fine inside and won;t feel like they are still recovering from their episode.

The TV remote thing did happen but I didn't resort to any violence. I was going to watch Dr. Phil only to find the TV remote is gone again because my dad had been taking it and he and Mom were sleeping and I didn't want to wake them up so I also got chest pains because I didn't let myself slam things and yell and scream waking the whole house up and did used to be punished for this as a child and then I would feel bad. Would you still call this a tantrum? If this is a tantrum and not a meltdown, then I guess others don't know what a tantrum is if they say it's done voluntarily and then they feel normal after they get what they want while I still felt I was recovering from the episode despite being calmer and feeling better and I didn't want to talk about it. No I don't enjoy these moments while people with tantrums would.


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PlainsAspie
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21 Nov 2014, 5:37 pm

If someone has meltdowns where they are violent or self-injurious (that isn't the norm, but it is sometimes the case), they shouldn't be punished as it is beyond their control. However, there needs to be someone intervening to minimize the harm. This could include pulling a head-banger away from a wall, etc.



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21 Nov 2014, 6:05 pm

PlainsAspie wrote:
If someone has meltdowns where they are violent or self-injurious (that isn't the norm, but it is sometimes the case), they shouldn't be punished as it is beyond their control. However, there needs to be someone intervening to minimize the harm. This could include pulling a head-banger away from a wall, etc.


I think if someone poses harm to others, they should be hospitalized and that is what happened to a ten year old boy I knew because he wouldn't stop throwing an ax at my brothers and their friends. They weren't letting him have his way so he got mad. He also had ODD and I am thinking he had conduct disorder since these people pose a harm to others and destroy property and that is what he did. He had AS too but I don't think that was his main issue since his mom said his was mild. He took pride in all this, he was one sick kid. He was often restrained too because he was posing violence to others.


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23 Nov 2014, 9:49 am

PlainsAspie wrote:
If someone has meltdowns where they are violent or self-injurious (that isn't the norm, but it is sometimes the case), they shouldn't be punished as it is beyond their control. However, there needs to be someone intervening to minimize the harm. This could include pulling a head-banger away from a wall, etc.

Isn't it the norm? Most of the autistic (albeit profoundly autistic) children I know behave violently during a meltdown. They may injure themselves or others. My guess is that that's why restraint is high among ASD students.

Someone said it's like a seizure. So let's go with that idea. If a child is having a convulsive seizure injuring themselves...you restrain them! I have a child who has them, this is standard. You do not just sit by while they give themselves a concussion, since it's not their fault!


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PlainsAspie
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23 Nov 2014, 11:12 am

WelcomeToHolland wrote:
PlainsAspie wrote:
If someone has meltdowns where they are violent or self-injurious (that isn't the norm, but it is sometimes the case), they shouldn't be punished as it is beyond their control. However, there needs to be someone intervening to minimize the harm. This could include pulling a head-banger away from a wall, etc.

Isn't it the norm? Most of the autistic (albeit profoundly autistic) children I know behave violently during a meltdown. They may injure themselves or others. My guess is that that's why restraint is high among ASD students.

Someone said it's like a seizure. So let's go with that idea. If a child is having a convulsive seizure injuring themselves...you restrain them! I have a child who has them, this is standard. You do not just sit by while they give themselves a concussion, since it's not their fault!


Absolutely. Restraint is appropriate in those cases. However, at least in the US, it's used in cases where it isn't appropriate far too often.



23 Nov 2014, 12:21 pm

Are restraints used when a kid isn't a danger to themselves or others?

Every time restraints are brought up about kids, I always think they are talking about violent children because that what they are used for, not for things like if a kid tossed their work assignment on the floor and hitting their desk or table or kicking at it or at their chair or if they are crying and shouting. To me this isn't violence because no one is being hurt and nothing is being damaged. If a kid is being so disruptive to a point other students can't work and concentrate, remove the kid from the room and take them to where they can calm down. It would be going for a walk or going to a library or whatever relaxes them. This wouldn't be a punishment.



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23 Nov 2014, 12:29 pm

Guest wrote:
Are restraints used when a kid isn't a danger to themselves or others?

Every time restraints are brought up about kids, I always think they are talking about violent children because that what they are used for, not for things like if a kid tossed their work assignment on the floor and hitting their desk or table or kicking at it or at their chair or if they are crying and shouting. To me this isn't violence because no one is being hurt and nothing is being damaged. If a kid is being so disruptive to a point other students can't work and concentrate, remove the kid from the room and take them to where they can calm down. It would be going for a walk or going to a library or whatever relaxes them. This wouldn't be a punishment.



Oops I made this post and I didn't realize I wasn't logged in. Now guests can make posts now.


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