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Deinonychus
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22 Feb 2008, 8:12 am

Thinking about the researchers motives they want recognition for their ideas and research. It's not been acknowledged that maybe not all serial killers lack of empathy is due to pschyopathic personality but maybe for some in part due to autistic personality traits. What it doesn't do is quantify the frequency that this occurs. It could be just these two individuals out of the thousands of serial killers who show some signs of AS. But the researcher isn't going to point this out or else his thesis is pretty rendundant if it only applies to an insignificant amount of killers.

They may have found something that others have missed but how significant it is hasn't been demonstrated. Ironically there are plenty of sociopaths (some that do really well in society and never murder anyone) but they may never be noticed because they have excellent social skills on the surface. Autistics on the other hand make easily indentified targets so I'm annoyed at the researcher for pushing forward his own agenda at the possible expense of a vulnerable group. It's somewhat irresponsible.



kattoo13
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22 Feb 2008, 8:13 am

I have always been fascinated with serial killers. In fact, I have this great book called "cannibal killers". I'd say issei sagawa fascinated me the most. japanese man who lived in france. he ate this lady and due to a "glitch" in the system, was let free from mental institution where he went on to be a food critic and a porn star.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issei_Sagawa

if you look on youtube, there are also some great documentaries on dahmer, among other people.



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22 Feb 2008, 8:21 am

Inventor wrote:
Dahmer was very social, he really liked people.




he liked eating them, too lol



Danielismyname
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22 Feb 2008, 8:34 am

Griff wrote:
AD is Alzheimer's Disease. I didn't know that so many serial killers were senior citizens. Sheesh.


Autistic disorder.

He had a speech delay, as well as a cognitive impairment (IQ of 60 as a child); if the IQ of 60 was taken at school years, then he'd fit AS, if not, PDD-NOS (as he gained adequate speech).

Ah, it wasn't in reply to me; "S" and "D" are close on the keyboard after all; though the amount of errors is telling, I'm sure they're mixing it up with autistic disorder, which isn't much different than AS (verbal impairment as an adult being the big one).



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22 Feb 2008, 8:57 am

I would suggest that the Asperger's autism may simply be incidental to their behaviors. Autistics, like anyone else, can have personality disorders.


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22 Feb 2008, 9:13 am

Not to say that autism makes people evil, come on people, stop reacting that emotional and offended. I'm not seeing this so emotional. I can't even make myself see this emotional, oh well.

I think it's perfectly possible to be autistic and have an antisocial personality disorder. Because as what the poster above me said, it's like having fleas and lice. You can get them both.

Autism can provide excellent basis for psychopathic behaviour, but overall I think this outcome is very very scarce. Not likely at all, but it can happen, so it's a possibility. Nothing more that a possibility and not particularly important for the majority of the spectrum.

I just wish people would stop saying the spectrum of all people looked like this:
Autism -> Neurotypical -> Psychopathy
Because it's just not true. People can say this to make themselves feel good, but this idea is just not reality.

Because autism is not a mental disorder. Last time I checked, an antisocial/dissocial personality disorder isn't 'having a different brain set-up' like autism has. Instead APD/DPD is a mental disorder, autistic is currently a neurobiological disorder.



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22 Feb 2008, 9:24 am

"AD" is the correct abbreviation for "Alzheimer's Disease." Although it is not uncommon for autism to be referred to as "autistic disorder," I doubt it's professional for it to be abbreviated as such.



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22 Feb 2008, 9:32 am

Griff wrote:
"AD" is the correct abbreviation for "Alzheimer's Disease." Although it is not uncommon for autism to be referred to as "autistic disorder," I doubt it's professional for it to be abbreviated as such.


don't abbreviation vary based on location? why get your undies in a bunch over this detail instead of dealing with the actual topic?


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22 Feb 2008, 11:15 am

Sora wrote:
Not to say that autism makes people evil, come on people, stop reacting that emotional and offended. I'm not seeing this so emotional. I can't even make myself see this emotional, oh well.

I think it's perfectly possible to be autistic and have an antisocial personality disorder. Because as what the poster above me said, it's like having fleas and lice. You can get them both.

Autism can provide excellent basis for psychopathic behaviour, but overall I think this outcome is very very scarce. Not likely at all, but it can happen, so it's a possibility. Nothing more that a possibility and not particularly important for the majority of the spectrum.

I just wish people would stop saying the spectrum of all people looked like this:
Autism -> Neurotypical -> Psychopathy
Because it's just not true. People can say this to make themselves feel good, but this idea is just not reality.

Because autism is not a mental disorder. Last time I checked, an antisocial/dissocial personality disorder isn't 'having a different brain set-up' like autism has. Instead APD/DPD is a mental disorder, autistic is currently a neurobiological disorder.


Nothing is impossible, but I think an AS President is more likely.

Connecting two of our highest profile serial killers, a mail bomber, and a homosexual cannibal to Asperger's in particular, out of many choices on the spectrum, is using two shocking images, to say that Asperger's is not a just slightly different neurology, but is a dangerous mental disorder.

I am not sure which Danielismyname was refering to, with an IQ of 60, but that would not fit the normal to above intelligence of the AS Dx.

Silva seems to hinge his statements on both showing a lack of empathy.

Lack of a social connection is the dominate trait of Asperger's, it is not that I cannot understand what others think and feel, I just do not care, I live in my life, they should be happy with theirs.

Silva is equating the main issue of Asperger's, by name, not ASD's, with a minor side issue of serial killers, and I have my doubts about that.

The idea that the killer lacked empathy, saw people as things, is psychobabble. They are attracted to their kills, by love or hate, invest a lot of effort into killing, it is the main focus of their life. It is scoial attraction gone wrong. Bundy killed girls, Dahmer, young men, Kaczynski mostly people related to airlines.

Bundy and Dahmer were both good looking, social, and had little trouble picking up their targets. Killing is a long way from not caring. A lack of empathy, no social connection, would lead to ramdom killing. Most of our killers have a type, Bundy only killed girls with long brown hair.

Kaczynski did well, got a degree in math, was teaching, just as computers came and knocked him off his perch, his mental skills were replaced with a box. It happened to many, and most with a math degree went into IT, and did well. He hated computers, rejected them, and blamed education.

He attacked University reserchers, and airline management. I can see the University connection, but have never figured his airline thing.

Silva's lack of empathy does not fit. true, AS can be seen that way, but I do not ignore people because I cannot understand how they think, or have no idea that they have feelings. I know them well, so I avoid contact. It is not just that they are hairless ground apes looking for something to steal, using social manipulation to get close enough, but what they cannot steal, they will try to destroy.

Silva fits this profile. The AS minority is speaking for it's self, and speaking against the fund raising machine who claims to speak for them. He cannot steal this rising power, which is causing problems for fund raisers who pocket $10,000,000 a year. So he is funded to publish fake "research" showing that the one defining trait of AS, singled out by name, is shared by serial killers.

This is nothing but a propaganda piece. 2 to 6 million in the US, and all of their refrigerators should be checked. Next comes the AS sense of fair play, social justice, which is the same as Bin Lauden, and Homeland Security should send them all to Gitmo so they do not disrupt real Americans raising funds to exterminate them.

This is propaganda, targeting a neurological minority group, with nothing scientific about it.

Science would start with the Dx'ed, study the crimes commited compared to a control group, same background, but lacking AS.

The results would show a law abiding group who's relationship with crime is, they are a target. Crime is a form of intense social involvment. A study of the plus and minus factors would show that AS is hard on those who have it, but beneficial to the world in general.

Silva starts with, "Dahmer was a typical Aspie!" This is Propaganda.

Follow the money.



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22 Feb 2008, 11:17 am

oh my calandale looks like jeffery with his haircut now. he even has those same glasses! he just moved to phoenix and we plan on hanging out like it was 1997 some day :D


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oscuria
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22 Feb 2008, 11:25 am

Quick, someone make a reference to Albert Einstein and his greatness.

There are too many negative posts!!



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22 Feb 2008, 1:10 pm

[Was waiting for it to get silly before chipping-in.] OMG! my cover's blown - quick! feed me trolls...


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22 Feb 2008, 1:12 pm

Einstein's over used. My best Aspie - Beethoven. Check out any biography. No doubt.


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22 Feb 2008, 2:13 pm

Well, to be brutally honest, I can see how certain traits would do well in a serial killer. But seriously, we have to look at what's being said. A "small" sub-category of serial killers. How many serial killers are even in that category? Five? Ten?

We're being profiled the same as a standard examination of who commits crimes. Ask any standard profiler, and they'll tell you who commits a majority of crimes. There's a categorization of killers and criminals, and in those categories, patterns emerge. Not everyone with an ASD will be a killer, but it's good to know that those who are will be profiled into a category, and that will help police in catching people who do such vile things.

I myself am for it, and the fact that there's a category for ASD Serial Killers is no more offensive than other categories. For example, most serial killers are white males, between the ages of 20 and 35, who also have certain characteristics or backgrounds. Are white males between the ages of 20-35 complaining? No. They want serial killers caught before they have chances to kill again. If someone is a serial killer, they need to be caught, whether they have an ASD or not.

Sometimes, you just have to trust that people who profile killers their whole lives, know what they're talking about when it comes to profiling killers. It's not like they're saying every autistic is a serial killer, anymore than they say that of every white male between 20 and 35. I agree, it's scarce, yes, possible, yes, and if there's even a remote chance that a serial killer might have an ASD, then it's in everyone's best interest that they're caught.

It's law enforcement, Inventor. They don't like to play games. They like to catch serial killers, especially if they can catch them before they kill more people. They're not getting paid to discriminate against ASDs, they're being paid to model serial killers. If an ASD may be inclusive for a category of serial killer, I'd rather any future serial killers with ASDs caught before they can kill so many, rather than fight the "offense" caused by being equal suspects as any other profile. We're not above the law, Inventor. I'd be disgusted if the authorities didn't do their jobs and treat everyone the same.

Nominalist, I agree.


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frields
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22 Feb 2008, 2:47 pm

MusicMaker1 wrote:
I wonder how many serial killers there have been in the past? If the general population has 1 out of every 150 people being autistic, then, wouldn't it stand to reason that one out of every 150 or so serial killers might be autistic??

I HATE it when this kind of stigma can effect an entire population of otherwise law-abiding, creative, brilliant people... I remember reading somewhere that at any given time in the U.S., there were probably at least 60 serial killers on the loose.. I wonder how many of them are neurotypical?


I wonder how many GENIUSES/EINSTEINS there have been in the past? If the general population has 1 out of every 150 people being autistic, then, wouldn't it stand to reason that one out of every 150 or so GENIUSES/EINSTEINS might be autistic??

I HATE it when this kind of stigma can effect an entire population of otherwise law-abiding, creative, brilliant people... I remember reading somewhere that at any given time in the U.S., there were probably at least 60 GENIUSES/EINSTEINS on the loose.. I wonder how many of them are neurotypical?



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22 Feb 2008, 2:49 pm

ShadesOfMe wrote:
I hate this stuff. There are bad people in EVERY group. doesn't mean we all want to go out and hurt people.


I hate this stuff. There are GENIUSES/EINSTEINS in EVERY group. doesn't mean we all want to go out and be GENIUSES/EINSTEINS.