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billsmithglendale
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06 Aug 2009, 1:54 pm

So, I don't know how many of you saw this that happened in the U.S., but some nut went and blew away a bunch of women at a gym in Pittsburg, PA.

What stuck out to me about the story was that the guy left an online diary that listed all of the things going on in his life and why he did this thing.

You can find the link here for his online diary: http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/08/05/sodini.pdf

More info about him here:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=george+sodini&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g-z3&fp=flbC24gbdiA

Lots of this guy's complaints sound like some of the folks here who seem to be stuck in life. Lots of "nobody likes me," "all women reject and hate me" "I can't understand what I'm doing wrong," etc.

I think some of you should look at this as a worst-case example of what this kind of thinking can do to a person.

Things that seem familiar:

--Ruminating on problems. Again, and again, and again. He made some effort to make things better, but didn't stick with it, and still lets his negativity drag him down. It's obvious he's more comfortable being miserable and revelling in his self-pity than taking a risk and moving on with life.

--Telling a bit too much of the truth. Just think, if he put it in his public, online diary, he was probably saying the same stuff to the girls he was dating. I can't stress this enough -- too much truth is NOT a good thing with people you don't know that well!!

--Isolating himself. True, he did social events, but he's not joining any clubs or making long-term friends. And his social events are all with co-workers he's already poisoned with negativity and his dating status. None of them are going to take him seriously - thus the one woman's question about whether he was bullied in high school. He's coming off as a loser.

--No male guidance. This part tugs at my heart strings. I too didn't have a brother, and my father didn't pass on any real guy guidance. I also had to struggle and either find out for myself or late in life. This is the primary reason why I chime in so much here - to help pass on stuff I've learned and big the brother I never had to guys here who might need it.

So I've said some controversial stuff -- what do you all think about this guy? Does he remind you of some of the attitudes here?



CaroleTucson
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06 Aug 2009, 2:20 pm

Does he remind you of some of the attitudes here?

Possibly. But not every lonely, socially inept, weird guy becomes a serial killer. I think the fact that serial killers often have AS-like symptoms is more the effect than the cause.

From my reading, a lack of a conscience is NOT a typical AS characteristic. So people who burst into a workplace or wherever and start shooting are something way different.



Last edited by CaroleTucson on 06 Aug 2009, 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Doug_Doug
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06 Aug 2009, 2:21 pm

I would have to say I have felt alot of the same feelings as he has....but they usually lead me down a path of frustration and depression, not anger. I was in a marriage for over 13 years before my wife left me for another. I doubt I could ever bring myself to do much of anything violent. I can remember a time I hate the man who my exwife left me for so much I wanted to beat him like no tomorrow, but I could never ever bring myself to do such things as even that.

The important thing is to let go of all that garbage that makes us feel negative and keep moving forward. We are only in control of our own actions not the actions of others in our lives.



Janissy
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06 Aug 2009, 2:31 pm

Oh God. You went there. Well, he is the elephant in the room.

You make excellent observations. I'll just add on a bit of "older woman" perspective that jumped out at me.

He's 48. He's older than me by not by an enormous amount (notice how my age isn't in my profile- let's just just say I'll never see 30 again). I personally think he's not a bad looking guy. Probably because he's in my demographic and my tastes have expanded to include older men that wouldn't have been on my radar when I was 21. I see the strong jaw that LePetitPrince was going on about in a "looks" thread although his eyes are cold (but would I think that if not for the news story?) He went to the gym regularly and is clearly in good shape. But who did he go after. Beautiful girls in their early 20's. Why WOULD they be attracted to him? He's 25 years too old for them. He probably would have had better success with older women. But if an endless stream of beautiful girls in their 20's aren't attracted to a 48 year old man, they are somehow evil? He should have expanded his tastes. But he didn't. Or couldn't.

But then again, maybe beautiful 21 year olds ignored him when he was 21 as well. And there is a far younger picture of him in some websites and he is straight up handsome. Or was back in the day. Now he's "not bad for his age" (which would still attract older women) but back then he was actually, genuinely handsome. Yet apparently undateable. So what was he doing to override his looks and repel women despite good looks? It would have to be one heck of a bad vibe. So maybe the lesson from this is that your vibe matters far more than your looks and also expand your tastes if you can at all.

Luckily the men here seem to complain mainly about the "friend zone". Thank freaking God for the "friend zone". It allows men to stay connected to women even when not in a relationship and that connection is vital.



billsmithglendale
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06 Aug 2009, 2:57 pm

CaroleTucson wrote:
Does he remind you of some of the attitudes here?

Possibly. But not every lonely, socially inept, weird guy becomes a serial killer. I think the fact that serial killers often have AS-like symptoms is more the effect than the cause.

From my reading, a lack of a conscience is NOT a typical AS characteristic. So people who burst into a workplace or wherever and start shooting are something way different.


I wouldn't say he has a lack of a conscience or is a sociopath -- nothing I read in his online diary (did you read it?) seems to indicate this. He does seem disturbed, but sociopaths, if anything, would probably have had a lot better success with dating. He did a terrible thing, but not all terrible things are done by psychopaths or sociopaths, though the person might be having a psychotic episode when they did it.



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06 Aug 2009, 3:19 pm

The first thing I noticed is that he considered many women as "not human"... which is a major point that allows someone to kill strangers in cold blood... Also I noticed that this guy apparently had some very adolescent views on love and sexuality (like the whole black men should have their pick of white women thing), so not everything was there... This distorted world view, along with the dehumanization (in his mind) of certain types of women (maybe even the entire gender, I wouldn't know...) allowed him to commit such a heinous act...

Another thing I notice is that he's quick to blame everyone around him for his problems, but doesn't look within... That's a major difference between this guy and many people here on this forum: I, for one, blame nobody but myself for being a complete failure at life...

Janissy wrote:
Luckily the men here seem to complain mainly about the "friend zone". Thank freaking God for the "friend zone". It allows men to stay connected to women even when not in a relationship and that connection is vital.
Look. I'll agree that it has its uses... Certainly I am better off because of it... But at the same time, the friend zone forces me to keep all women at arm's length, which is not something I can say I enjoy doing...



Space
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06 Aug 2009, 3:31 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
--Ruminating on problems. Again, and again, and again. He made some effort to make things better, but didn't stick with it, and still lets his negativity drag him down. It's obvious he's more comfortable being miserable and revelling in his self-pity than taking a risk and moving on with life.

--Telling a bit too much of the truth. Just think, if he put it in his public, online diary, he was probably saying the same stuff to the girls he was dating. I can't stress this enough -- too much truth is NOT a good thing with people you don't know that well!!

--Isolating himself. True, he did social events, but he's not joining any clubs or making long-term friends. And his social events are all with co-workers he's already poisoned with negativity and his dating status. None of them are going to take him seriously - thus the one woman's question about whether he was bullied in high school. He's coming off as a loser.

--No male guidance. This part tugs at my heart strings. I too didn't have a brother, and my father didn't pass on any real guy guidance. I also had to struggle and either find out for myself or late in life. This is the primary reason why I chime in so much here - to help pass on stuff I've learned and big the brother I never had to guys here who might need it.

So I've said some controversial stuff -- what do you all think about this guy? Does he remind you of some of the attitudes here?

I definitely have some of these problems... As for ruminating on problems, I'm kind of at a loss at this point. Hypnotism/psychotherapy to make me a happy person who people are attracted to? I'm hoping to start a new job soon, and that that will help me. I've thought about moving to a different city... I don't think that's enough.

I struggle with the social part too... I noticed that he said he was 20 years sober... we are in a similar boat. I have struggled with drugs and alcohol... but I wonder if it's worth it to start getting drunk so maybe I can make friends sometimes... but I can't bring myself to do it.

No male guidance is tough. On one hand, I think noone is going to solve my problems and I have to just figure it out myself, but I never got any guidance on women from my dad, he's never talked to me about dating once in my whole life. I have no brothers, sisters, or other family to talk to about it. I have male friends... but they are either in the same situation or they don't know what I should do.



billsmithglendale
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06 Aug 2009, 3:40 pm

ToadOfSteel wrote:
The first thing I noticed is that he considered many women as "not human"... which is a major point that allows someone to kill strangers in cold blood... Also I noticed that this guy apparently had some very adolescent views on love and sexuality (like the whole black men should have their pick of white women thing), so not everything was there... This distorted world view, along with the dehumanization (in his mind) of certain types of women (maybe even the entire gender, I wouldn't know...) allowed him to commit such a heinous act...

Another thing I notice is that he's quick to blame everyone around him for his problems, but doesn't look within... That's a major difference between this guy and many people here on this forum: I, for one, blame nobody but myself for being a complete failure at life...

Janissy wrote:
Luckily the men here seem to complain mainly about the "friend zone". Thank freaking God for the "friend zone". It allows men to stay connected to women even when not in a relationship and that connection is vital.
Look. I'll agree that it has its uses... Certainly I am better off because of it... But at the same time, the friend zone forces me to keep all women at arm's length, which is not something I can say I enjoy doing...


The white women/black men thing could very well be his particular sexual fetish -- this is quite the niche for adult entertainment, with tons of titles targeted at that fetish. One aspect of it, the "Cuckold" fetish, has to do with white husbands putting themselves down and wanting their wives to cheat with black men, so there's a lot that could be responsible for his statement, other than psychosis.

Also, given the deluge of propaganda and political correctness from the 70s on (in the 90s, it was to the point here in the U.S. that is was acceptable to put down white men and discourage same-race dating for white women) it is possible he is just a reflection of that as well. I still hear my Mom say some things that are pretty wacky on that account.

I'll agree that he is playing the blame game, but I think he also accepts blame, but just doesn't seem to understand what he is doing wrong. He's very angry, frustrated, and at the end of his rope (literally). His inwards-turned anger was finally turned outwards.

As a side note -- Idiots like this guy are who ruin gun ownership for the rest of us. 99.9% of legitimate gun owners follow the rules and don't inflict harm on others with their firearms, but then some jerk like this guy goes and creates a tragedy.



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06 Aug 2009, 3:45 pm

Janissy, you are SO RIGHT. I've heard the news about this guy, and I wondered the exact same thing -- why is a guy that age interested in such young women? No wonder he wasn't having success. I wonder if anyone ever pointed this out to him?



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06 Aug 2009, 3:49 pm

Janissy wrote:
but back then he was actually, genuinely handsome.


Yes, but as you women keep reminding us: "looks aren't important". Have you seen the size of his bank account? :wink:

And his obsession is clearly *physical appearance*. It's almost every other line. He shares that with a lot of people, not just here. Maybe that's the root problem.

And on the "inhuman girls" his quote his "girls here look so beautiful as to not be human". Which has a VERY different meaning. His obsession with the superficial, the surface. And it is a valid observation that when a person spends most of their life at the gym/having plastic surgery/smothering themselves in makeup etc etc, they are hiding the essential human within.

BTW I'm not defending this idiot, just pointing out that his problems appear to me to have little in common with those of Aspies. Sure his mind was 'twisted', in many ways our culture does the 'twisting' and he's one of the weak links that eventually snaps.


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Last edited by ManErg on 06 Aug 2009, 4:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

billsmithglendale
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06 Aug 2009, 3:50 pm

Space wrote:

No male guidance is tough. On one hand, I think noone is going to solve my problems and I have to just figure it out myself, but I never got any guidance on women from my dad, he's never talked to me about dating once in my whole life. I have no brothers, sisters, or other family to talk to about it. I have male friends... but they are either in the same situation or they don't know what I should do.


Yes, a lot of us suffer from this. There's this stereotype that guys should "man it out" and go it alone, but that's far from healthy. There's a lot of stuff that we need to pass on culturally, and why reinvent the wheel? If one guy figures out something, and is telling his friends and brothers, don't the rest of us who don't know suffer for it?

Better to give advice and spread the word, I say. Lend a helping hand so that the same guy may someday help you with something. Just like how 2 sets of eyes on a problem at work can often fix something quickly, we need to be less proud and more willing to ask for help when it is needed.

And that's why I love this forum, and spouting off my stuff. I blab a lot, but once in a while, it seems to help someone out.



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06 Aug 2009, 3:53 pm

Another thing about this guy that separates himself from a lot of people here is that I get the idea he sees himself as "deserving" of a girlfriend... he keeps talking about how he has a good-paying job and how he was able to retain it in the face of layoffs, etc... Women are human beings with their own free will... for a man to say he "deserves" to have a woman is akin to being incredibly misogynist, narcissistic, and along the lines of endorsing slavery... which may be connected to the dehuminization of women I was talking about earlier in this thread...

I, for one, don't see myself as deserving of anything... It's just my lot in life that women don't like me... some people are more blessed than others... unfortunately, I got the short end, but such is life...



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06 Aug 2009, 3:56 pm

DELETED



Last edited by Cyberman on 07 Aug 2009, 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KenM
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06 Aug 2009, 4:10 pm

While I can relate alot to how the guy felt, what he did was just pure evil. This guy was a demon from hell.



Space
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06 Aug 2009, 5:01 pm

I don't think this is just about sex either. They guy obviously had a good job... If he wanted to he could've been sleeping with tons of hookers.

I think that all these things mentioned are symptoms of a bigger issue, and that is that technology and modern life have made people very indifferent and callous to the wellbeing of others, and lacking any social cohesion. Technology allows people to ignore everyone around them, and people are so in fear of the unknown that they don't want to risk getting to know someone new, especially someone isolated and probably needy. Ergo, guys like this can easily fall through the cracks of society, all the while maintaining a job and an illusion of content middle class life. Anyone seen the movie "Falling Down" ? It's got some similarities to this guy's story. At any rate, there are reasons why guys like this exist, and why they didn't 30, 40, 50 years ago. Somehow I don't think there were guys in the 50's 60's 70's blowing up like this for the same reasons.



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06 Aug 2009, 5:40 pm

I guess the women who rejected him must have been right about him, he was no good. That being said, obviously shooting women wouldn't help his chances with them at all. Besides, the real problem is that there are too few women and too many men, so he actually just made the problem incrementally worse for all of us.


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