Buying drinks, paying for dinner, opening doors, blah blah..

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yellowtamarin
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07 Aug 2013, 7:46 pm

Doesn't it just seem really silly for a woman to expect a man to buy her a drink, but not vice versa, when there is such a thing as SAME SEX RELATIONSHIPS?

Who buys the drink in those cases? If the answer is "it doesn't matter", why does it matter between heteros??

As a bisexual female, I find the whole thing ridiculous. I date men and women. I expect the experience to be the same, in terms of things like "who pays" and all that crap. For there to be two different sets of rules depending on the sex of the person I date just doesn't make sense to me. I'm looking for the same qualities in the people I date...I don't switch my thinking from "I'm dating a woman, things should be equal" to "hmm now I'm dating a man, he should be manly and buy stuff for me".

So perhaps you may say it's different for bisexuals? How so? And what if I'm dating a man who doesn't know I'm bisexual? How is he to behave?

Someone please clear this up* for me because I'm baffled.


*No, I don't actually expect this to ever be cleared up but I do like a good healthy debate once in a while :P



redrobin62
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07 Aug 2013, 7:52 pm

Traditionally, men pay for women's meals. I agree with this as I'm sort of old fashioned.

In a gay relationship I think it's presumed the person who makes the most money should offer to pick up the tab.

Also, in gay relationships, I think the older person pays for the drinks.



savvyidentity
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07 Aug 2013, 8:25 pm

No idea about the bisexual thing, but I wont buy everything for a woman and now especially I think I'd much prefer to suggest a contribution in a tactful way. I think asking for an even split would be seen as tight and high strung (by most) so I wouldn't do that either unless they offer then I'll say yes. I'll certainly not turn down drinks if she's offering either - done the thing before where I pay for most of it and it's never looked good on me (actually it looks bad) I believe. The rule is if you arrange the date it's polite to pay as you can embarrass your date. That's why say before "I'll get the food, you grab the drinks" or something to that effect I think would be OK.

Opening doors or pulling out a chair, no, just no lol. She's got arms and hands for that. I think most don't expect this but I've had someone mention it to me on a date before. TBH I thought she was being mean spirited just to mention it and I counted it against her.



yellowtamarin
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07 Aug 2013, 8:29 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
Traditionally, men pay for women's meals. I agree with this as I'm sort of old fashioned.

In a gay relationship I think it's presumed the person who makes the most money should offer to pick up the tab.

Also, in gay relationships, I think the older person pays for the drinks.

1) Old fashioned/tradition, okay that's a reason but it still makes no sense. I don't believe in continuing to do things after you realise they make no sense.

2) What if you don't know who makes more money?

3) I was not aware of this "rule". Does it apply to a bisexual dating someone of the same sex? What if you are the same age, do you squabble over your month of birth? Gay men (in Australia at least) have the largest average age difference in relationships, but there would be plenty who are interested in men of a similar age.

So you have pointed out rules which point to paying for the drinks if you are male (more powerful?), earn more (more powerful?), or older (more powerful?). Would you say the basic rule is "the dominant person pays"?



puddingmouse
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07 Aug 2013, 8:35 pm

Straight people are full of silly, old-fashioned bs like that.


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savvyidentity
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07 Aug 2013, 8:39 pm

Now I think about it, I knew a lesbian couple once and they didn't seem to favour eachother at all with things like that and they weren't the same generation as me. One was slightly the "butch" type the other was much more butch. Maybe the dominant (initiator?) thing you mention makes sense, depends on peoples world view I guess and generation.



yellowtamarin
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07 Aug 2013, 8:46 pm

savvyidentity wrote:
No idea about the bisexual thing, but I wont buy everything for a woman and now especially I think I'd much prefer to suggest a contribution in a tactful way. I think asking for an even split would be seen as tight and high strung (by most) so I wouldn't do that either unless they offer then I'll say yes. I'll certainly not turn down drinks if she's offering either - done the thing before where I pay for most of it and it's never looked good on me (actually it looks bad) I believe. The rule is if you arrange the date it's polite to pay as you can embarrass your date. That's why say before "I'll get the food, you grab the drinks" or something to that effect I think would be OK.

The person arranging the date paying makes sense to me, especially when they choose the place and therefore the price of the food. It usually just comes naturally for me to want to pay for what I've ordered (and I nearly always order a cheaper meal than my date so splitting half way would mean I always "lose"), but I can remember one example where my date booked us in at a kind of fancy restaurant with expensive food without telling me (I thought we were going to meet up and choose something together), and so I expected him to pay because I would never choose to eat somewhere like that. Often (particularly with online dating) the arrangements to meet up are fairly mutual, in which case I do not see any problem with splitting or paying for only what you ordered.

As for buying someone a drink at the bar, I'm guessing your logic would be that anyone can buy a drink for anyone regardless of sex or orientation? This is how I think it should be.



yellowtamarin
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07 Aug 2013, 8:48 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Straight people are full of silly, old-fashioned bs like that.

And I'm really sick of it! Especially because I date straight men so I have to still try to be aware of it.



puddingmouse
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07 Aug 2013, 8:51 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Straight people are full of silly, old-fashioned bs like that.

And I'm really sick of it! Especially because I date straight men so I have to still try to be aware of it.


Oh, I've just given up on dating. The whole thing doesn't work for me. If I ever meet anyone again, it'll be through social activities. I wouldn't go near a straight guy if he was old-fashioned and into gender roles. It would be ridiculous for someone like me to do so.


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yellowtamarin
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07 Aug 2013, 8:58 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
yellowtamarin wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Straight people are full of silly, old-fashioned bs like that.

And I'm really sick of it! Especially because I date straight men so I have to still try to be aware of it.


Oh, I've just given up on dating. The whole thing doesn't work for me. If I ever meet anyone again, it'll be through social activities. I wouldn't go near a straight guy if he was old-fashioned and into gender roles. It would be ridiculous for someone like me to do so.

I guess sometimes you don't know how old-fashioned the guy is until you are on the date. I'll only date a guy I think has a similar mindset to me, but we might not have discussed the "who pays" thing so I'll still sit there wondering what's going to happen when the bill arrives.

Someone said recently in a thread that splitting the bill = friendzoning. I've been breaking hearts all over town without knowing, haha! To me, the money stuff has NOTHING to do with the date apart from a necessary financial transaction that must take place if you aren't doing a free activity. Or in the case of buying someone a drink at the bar, it's a gesture of interest and has NOTHING to do with gender, therefore anyone can do it.



puddingmouse
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07 Aug 2013, 9:08 pm

I don't think I've ever been on an actual date with a straight man. I've had boyfriends before, but they started out as friends and they've mostly been bi themselves. Friends split bills, so meh.


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MXH
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07 Aug 2013, 9:10 pm

Thing is being bisexual that dates both genders you had the experience to bring the thought to mind. Most girls who only date guys (regardless of sexual orientation) seem to expect the guy t make every move. From the approach, to manners, to paying,etc.

The key is the expect, because that's how they've been taught. Until we get a generation who is taught differently these things will continue.

Also most older guys will notice that older women don't expect the same, because they have the experience to bring the doubt to mind.



billiscool
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07 Aug 2013, 9:10 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:
Doesn't it just seem really silly for a woman to expect a man to buy her a drink, but not vice versa, when there is such a thing as SAME SEX RELATIONSHIPS?

Who buys the drink in those cases? If the answer is "it doesn't matter", why does it matter between heteros??

As a bisexual female, I find the whole thing ridiculous. I date men and women. I expect the experience to be the same, in terms of things like "who pays" and all that crap. For there to be two different sets of rules depending on the sex of the person I date just doesn't make sense to me. I'm looking for the same qualities in the people I date...I don't switch my thinking from "I'm dating a woman, things should be equal" to "hmm now I'm dating a man, he should be manly and buy stuff for me".

So perhaps you may say it's different for bisexuals? How so? And what if I'm dating a man who doesn't know I'm bisexual? How is he to behave?

Someone please clear this up* for me because I'm baffled.


*No, I don't actually expect this to ever be cleared up but I do like a good healthy debate once in a while :P


do the ''butch'' women buys drinks. if both are fem,then who buys drinks



Kjas
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07 Aug 2013, 9:27 pm

yellowtamarin wrote:
Doesn't it just seem really silly for a woman to expect a man to buy her a drink, but not vice versa, when there is such a thing as SAME SEX RELATIONSHIPS?

Who buys the drink in those cases? If the answer is "it doesn't matter", why does it matter between heteros??

As a bisexual female, I find the whole thing ridiculous. I date men and women. I expect the experience to be the same, in terms of things like "who pays" and all that crap. For there to be two different sets of rules depending on the sex of the person I date just doesn't make sense to me. I'm looking for the same qualities in the people I date...I don't switch my thinking from "I'm dating a woman, things should be equal" to "hmm now I'm dating a man, he should be manly and buy stuff for me".

So perhaps you may say it's different for bisexuals? How so? And what if I'm dating a man who doesn't know I'm bisexual? How is he to behave?

Someone please clear this up* for me because I'm baffled.


*No, I don't actually expect this to ever be cleared up but I do like a good healthy debate once in a while :P


It depends on who you're dating really.
Some people who do it so define themselves by their sex and gender that it's a really ingrained form of sexism - to the point that some guys won't let you pay or open doors for them, carry stuff for them, etc.
Some people simply see such behaviours as "cuidare de ti" - in other words, taking care of them - in which cases, the guys who hold this view are happy to let you do things like that for them and actually enjoy it and find it cute and sweet.

I've met both types and I definitely prefer the latter. There's something nice about both of you being able to do that stuff without worrying about the other person taking it the wrong way. Usually the former are uncomfortable, sometimes intensely so, with a woman taking care of them that way.


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yellowtamarin
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07 Aug 2013, 10:11 pm

billiscool wrote:
do the ''butch'' women buys drinks. if both are fem,then who buys drinks

I don't know, but that's just as silly. I think of potential partners as my equal, not as one being more dominant than the other, when it comes to these sorts of gestures.



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07 Aug 2013, 10:15 pm

Gay bars:

"Let me buy you a drink."

"No, let me buy you a drink."

"I insist."

"No, really, it's the man's job."

"But we're both men!"

"Oh, golly gee. Well, who's going to pretend to be the woman?"

"I don't know. There's some pink on my keyring so I guess I will."