AS, Narcissistic Personality Disorder or just a jerk?

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Figaro
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11 Nov 2010, 9:02 pm

Hello everyone,

Here's the story:

I met this guy (we are both age 35) 18 months ago. In the beginning it was a fairy tale and then slowly the fairy tale went away and AS and/or narcissim took over.
I saw the movie Adam and in the scene where Adam blows up because he found out that his girlfriend had been lying to him reminded me of my guy, the rest did not.
Voila, I studied up on AS and recognized myself instantly. I will become formerly diagnosed once I fit with a good Dr. of Psych. but I have read every book and taken every test and all results points to AS.

My guy: in the beginning I thought that he had AS because of some of
these traits:

1. Some sensitivity to light (not as bad as me)
2. Photographic memory
3. Sensitive to sound, light touch, texture.
4. likes time alone.
5. inability to express his feelings for me.

Now I am realizing that he doesn't seem to have AS at all and maybe just some symptoms, he seems to have NPD.
His NPD like traits:

1. When I bring up how he has hurt me with some insult, he berates me with an incredible vocabulary which results in my shutting down.
2. He never shuts down.
3. When he senses that he is losing me he tends to become the charming beginning guy for awhile but then resorts back to his incredibly selfish ways.
4. He keeps me completely separate from his family/friends.
5. He goes to dance clubs on the weekend without me. Wouldn't a dance club bother AS people?
6, Sometimes, he talks to me like I am worthless and then tells me I am acting crazy and/or pms-ing when I ask him to stop talking down to me.
7. He just seems to be highly manipulative of all situations to better fit his needs.
8. He takes out whatever is upsetting him that day on me. He becomes a big grouch to me but not to anyone else around. I see him at work and he is so nice to everyone and then harps on me.
9. I did meet one of his friends once by accident and my guy said the most inappropriate thing in front of him about me. I was in shock and so was his friend who actually called him an ass. I brought it up to him later and he said he did that to embarrass me. Doesn't that require deliberate thinking? I could never deliberately hurt someone or embarrass them. I can't manipulate a situation like that. The comment was of a sexual nature.
10. Speaking of which, in the beginning he loved sex and now he doesn't care about it with me at all. Perhaps he is getting it elsewhere?
Why keep me around? I feel like I am part of a collection of people that he has. Like I have become his friend who enjoys cooking; ergo, he keeps me around for food or as a mental punching bag.
I know he likes me because I can keep up with him mentally but he will still try and take me down to prove himself right. I am not in competition, that's not my style at all. I just want to chill with my computer and be in peace.

You guys get the point. He also is using AS as an excuse to behave like an Ass. He isn't even reading up on it or trying to better himself. At one point he even said that he liked who he was.

What is this? Was I wrong to think he has AS? Did I take his incredible intelligence (he can draw like DaVinci and write poems like Byron) as AS?
He is so childlike and becoming worse.
Sucks, cause I liked him but I know I fell in love with the guy that he was for the first three months and when his personality changed so drastically I cut him too much slack due to AS.
I just don't think AS people could be this manipulative and so defensive. He has an aggressive side too and he will use jiu-jitsu holds to mess with me. It doesn't hurt but what was once kinda cute has become thoroughly immature and annoying.

Also, I know the description of him sounds pretty bad, but again, I did fall for the original charming guy and I think I am still holing onto that. Perhaps I just need some friends on here to give me a push in the right direction. Perhaps I should just marry my iPad. ;-)
Thanks a bunch!
Me



caissa
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11 Nov 2010, 9:38 pm

Whether he is AS or not, anyone who is as selfish, thoughtless, and cruel, is not good for you, especially with your having AS-- you are not going to be able to navigate such a difficult dynamic.

I can totally relate to the personality change and being "added to the collection," if you can find my post "involved with AS man" read it (though my experience was not nearly as harrowing as yours). My AS BF ended out relationship but insisted on keeping me around almost as if nothing had happened. He even "joked" when selling off some of his obsession-related hobby items that if he could, he would sell off me! It's like I became objectified to him early on.

As far as his narcissism and manipulation-- I think some people with AS can develop very good "NT emulators" so just because he seems emotionally sophisticated does not mean he is. In fact his cruelty, faux pas (the shocking comment), and selfishness would suggest otherwise. As far as going out to clubs, he may very well be involved or looking to be involved with other women, and the sensory overload might be something he is willing to deal with to do that. Remember AS evidences on a scale of severity. Some people are more impaired than others.

People with AS are not saints, particularly in intimate relationships. ALL people have the capacity to be monsters in romantic relationships, and in dealing with someone with AS it can be particularly painful. 1) you expect them to be kind and understand you as a "kindred spirit" (and of course this often ends up being a fairy tale fantasy!) and 2) the high intelligence coupled with unsophisticated social ability can be devastating to try to endure. It is like being in loved with a brilliant 3 year old.



DemonAbyss10
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11 Nov 2010, 10:13 pm

Sorry, disney movie romances really don't exist. Most tend to just be one-sided affairs or horrid/etc


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Figaro
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11 Nov 2010, 10:40 pm

@Caissa: I posted a reply on your "involved with an AS man."
Thank you for posting a response to mine. I agree, I feel like I am in love with a brilliant 3 year old. That is it exactly!
I am slowly falling out though. Immature behaviour can only be tolerated for so long. I can feel myself slowly detaching. People can advise us to just leave but love creates the same chemical response as a drug addiction; therefore, it is better to wean ourselves off rather than go full stop.

@Demon:
I agree completely that fairy tales do not exist. Alas, he acted like a Prince. Obviously, I have learned my lesson and unfortunately will approach every guy who even comes close to Prince-like behaviour as a fraud. Basically, I will be even more distrustful of nice behaviour since Disney Princes are most likely hiding something. However, for those that show me their true colors in week two, I will be more apt to consider "normal"

Cheers :wink:



Figaro
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11 Nov 2010, 10:55 pm

By the way, I too feel objectified by him.
He has told me that he wants children someday and thinks I would be a great mom.
I toyed with the idea of wanting children and then recently told him that I did not and he freaked.
It seems that when he is ready he will decide to make me the mother of his children. I even said you can not keep me around so that one day I will make you babies.
No thanks.



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11 Nov 2010, 10:58 pm

This guy is just an @$$hole.

I really strongly doubt he has AS. Men with AS generally aren't good at charming people and I fail to believe even the most oblivious man with AS would come off as that big of an @$$hole.



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11 Nov 2010, 11:48 pm

i vote sociopathic. he turns on the charm just enough to keep you within arms' reach, then relaxes and shows his true colours again.


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12 Nov 2010, 12:22 am

OP, you really have to get out of this relationship. This man is so destructive to your self-image and self-esteem that you can't afford to stay with him. It doesn't matter what his particular affliction is - he's toxic to you. Stop letting him hurt you - stop loving him for hurting you. Save yourself - get rid of him.


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12 Nov 2010, 5:28 pm

Not to generalize, but I don't get why some women do this. This guy COULD be on the spectrum, (most traits don't fit.. tho nt mimicry can work wonders given the right circumstances) could have NPD or be a jerk.. or all three. Regardless, its not your problem.

You've just described verbal abuse because he insults you, emotional abuse.. when he said a sexual comment to his friend which was so INAPPROPRIATE you chose not to type it on here.. let alone it being done irl to intentionally embarrass you. Heck this guy even physically harasses you, ju-jitsu? When you don't want it done to you? Clear boundary violation, relationship or no relationship.

I know men are the pursuers, but you basically are telling us he's hurting you, and are asking when enough is. Why does he keep you around? Why does he like you? The more self important questions are why do you stay? Why do you still like him?

If you mess around and have a kid by this guy, it will get worse. They will be taught to devalue and not respect women.

Also not to stereotype.. there are very few reasons why guys stop pursuing sex in a healthy relationship. Although this is anything but. Also by self importance.. I also mean self love and self worth.



Marcia
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13 Nov 2010, 8:45 pm

HopeGrows wrote:
OP, you really have to get out of this relationship. This man is so destructive to your self-image and self-esteem that you can't afford to stay with him. It doesn't matter what his particular affliction is - he's toxic to you. Stop letting him hurt you - stop loving him for hurting you. Save yourself - get rid of him.


This, this, this!

My soon-to-be-ex-husband was abusive towards me, and the man and the relationship you describe here remind me of him and my marriage.

As it happens, I do believe that my husband is very probably AS, and I have significant traits myself, but that was not the root of the problem. The abusive behaviour stemmed from his own childhood experiences of abuse and the way he dealt with that. (Edited to add: See, I'm still doing it, after three years apart: trying to rationalise and find reasons for his behaviour! Aaaaargh!! !) The fact that I could understand his behaviour to a degree did not excuse it, and he made no effort to understand himself or to recognise that his behaviour was harming me.

My advice to you would be to end this relationship. Sorry, but it will be for your benefit and future happiness.



Shebakoby
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13 Nov 2010, 10:51 pm

It is possible to be both ASD AND NPD.



HopeGrows
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14 Nov 2010, 2:05 pm

Marcia wrote:
HopeGrows wrote:
OP, you really have to get out of this relationship. This man is so destructive to your self-image and self-esteem that you can't afford to stay with him. It doesn't matter what his particular affliction is - he's toxic to you. Stop letting him hurt you - stop loving him for hurting you. Save yourself - get rid of him.


This, this, this!

My soon-to-be-ex-husband was abusive towards me, and the man and the relationship you describe here remind me of him and my marriage.

As it happens, I do believe that my husband is very probably AS, and I have significant traits myself, but that was not the root of the problem. The abusive behaviour stemmed from his own childhood experiences of abuse and the way he dealt with that. (Edited to add: See, I'm still doing it, after three years apart: trying to rationalise and find reasons for his behaviour! Aaaaargh!! !) The fact that I could understand his behaviour to a degree did not excuse it, and he made no effort to understand himself or to recognise that his behaviour was harming me.


@Marcia, you raise a really, really important point: a diagnosis of ASD doesn't mean that's the only issue a person has to deal with - there can always be other psychological problems involved. ASD can be a source of those problems (kids with ASD being teased and tormented), and can also be an impediment to getting help and dealing with psychological issues. Additionally, there may be other issues not related to ASD (abusive, dysfunctional families, sexual abuse, etc.) that also create psychological problems.

I think its completely natural to try to figure out why someone with whom you have an intimate relationship mistreats you. (Its hard not to take that kind of behavior personally.) But at some point, its also important to understand that understanding your partner's issues doesn't mean you can resolve those issues. That understanding may answer some questions, but it doesn't really change anything. Your partner is the only one who can change his/her situation (often with the help of trained professionals) - but if they're not motivated to do that, nothing will change. I know that you've come to this realization, @Marcia....I hope the OP does as well.


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15 Nov 2010, 3:15 pm

Hi Figaro,

Some thoughts, as someone who hasn't formally been designated at AS and shares a lot of the symptoms you specifically mention with your BF (like him being a manipulative as*hole) -- I think I can cast some light. I don't mean any of the below insultingly, but really do want to let you know what I think the real truth is with your situation, even if the guy is more like me than you are. I do feel for you.

--He's probably not AS or full/real AS. He has some AS symptoms, as do other highly intelligent people who have neurosis that can masquerade as AS or Autism spectrum. For some reason, high intelligence and neuroticism seem to go hand in hand, possibly evidence that the human race had a genetically defined IQ cap, and we are now pushing that cap as C-sections and the like spare more and more big-brain, high IQ babies.

--He almost certainly is cheating on you. Going to nightclubs without you? Not sexually interested anymore? Bingo! He's almost certainly getting that intimacy from somewhere else. When I was cheating, I didn't have enough libido to go around sometimes, though sometimes it did boost it. It certainly made me less interested in my original partner vs. the new one. I would consider getting a STD test in secret, because some STD's, which he might pass on to you, are almost symptomless (like Chlamydia) but can cause you much grief if left untreated.

--As you say, his behavior is very abusive, and he is treating you like a doormat. His controlling of you and refusal to listen at all is another warning sign -- GET OUT NOW, because it is never going to get better.

--The way he pushes his anger on to you while presenting another face to the world -- possibly a sign of a very manipulative, possibly psychopathic, personality.

I don't think you are equipped for a relationship with this guy. Somewhere out there is his match, the female equivalent who can harness him or put him in his place, but that's not you, nor should it be if you want to be a good person. Unless there is something enormously redeeming about him, I say move on and find something better. There are other brilliant people out there who aren't cruel and emotionally abusive.

Edit -- One more note:

Don't ever think he is going to change. This life strategy is working too well, and is too well-ingrained, for him ever to turn over a new leaf. This has worked very well for him his whole life, so he's not going to change. Why should he? He has everything he wants -- you, the girls he has on the side, you as an emotional punching bag, his freedom to go out whenever he wants, regardless of how you feel, etc. He will never promote you from "punching bag" to princess, or even equal. He got what he wanted, and if you don't like it, you can leave -- I suggest you do and never look back.



CMaximus
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15 Nov 2010, 3:35 pm

"All of the above" is entirely possible; they're all just words with meanings attached in an attempt to define something about the complexity that is a person, anyway.



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15 Nov 2010, 6:31 pm

Why are you trying to diagnose this prick? Are you his psychiatrist? HOLY CRAP FIGARO!! ! DUMP HIM NOW!! !! What a HORRIBLE excuse for a human being he is! He's VERY, VERY bad. That act in the beginning was just bait to hook a nice fish. He's already gutted you. Now, he's frying you up, later he'll eat you and s**t you out only to belch and go fishin' again!!
Damn! Fishie, save yourself while you still can swim!! ! Change your locks, get std checks, aids especially! You might have a hard time getting rid of him so just tell him he could do SO MUCH better. Don't fight or argue. Talk to him like his royalty and you're just dirt. He might try to kill you if you start a confrontation. Compliment him and push him out so he's comfortable. He'll find another sap in less than two days. And you'll start feeling really good again...almost like a million bucks. And you'll be open for a good guy. Next time, don't make excuses for how someone treats you. AS people CAN and SHOULD treat you well. Learn from this, recognize this personality type and NEVER go there again!