I feel cheated out of life...

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Enigmatic_Oddity
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13 Jun 2006, 12:18 am

I don't think he is trying to justify suicide, it sounds more like he's trying to explain why Fearless feels the way he does.

And IMHO suicide isn't necessarily an act of moral bankruptcy, but I don't think it'd be appropriate for me to discuss my views here further.



Aspie_Chav
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13 Jun 2006, 12:30 am

wobbegong wrote:
Fearless

Ok a lot of your thinking isn't very rational.

You blame your AS for your lack of ability to get women or a serious female life partner (I'm being optimistic).

I know this is crap because most of my family is AS going back generations. A few of them didn't cope well (got an occasional alcoholic and gambler) but managed to be successful when it comes to families and jobs anyway.


I blame my abilities to date on the fact that I have Aspersers Syndrome, that is what brought me to this website to find an answer.

Your family has AS for generations, but maybe your family has also the money too. You know what woman would do anything for money. I also know that many families have a gay gene too, but how can it be when gay people generally do not have children. Generally why are they so many gay people considering that they don’t have children? Science has the answer, you ,my dear girl, do not.

There is either Gods way or Scientific way; choose a way! for without them morality is pathetic, and true is not truth at all but whatever you want it to be.



Enigmatic_Oddity
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13 Jun 2006, 12:41 am

Aspie_Chav wrote:
There is either Gods way or Scientific way; choose a way! for without them morality is pathetic, and true is not truth at all but whatever you want it to be.


I choose neither... so I guess that means morality is whatever I want it to be.

Sounds good to me. :D



Aspie_Chav
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13 Jun 2006, 6:49 am

Enigmatic_Oddity wrote:
Aspie_Chav wrote:
There is either Gods way or Scientific way; choose a way! for without them morality is pathetic, and true is not truth at all but whatever you want it to be.


I choose neither... so I guess that means morality is whatever I want it to be.

Sounds good to me. :D


God or Science should be your foundation of truth, from which you base your morality. But who realy does this.

Sympathise with somebody’s so called irrational behaviour until you can understand why. Science brings that understanding. For Christians, they turn to God for understanding.



JohnnysEntertainmentFan
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13 Jun 2006, 9:05 am

Aspie_Chav wrote:


...It is not the joy he want it is the pain he doesn’t want. No surprising that he wants to commit suicide, he wants no more pain. You would know this if you have ever felt like he does.
If he feels like I do, no words can heal his pain because it is pain like physical pain....He is at the point anything good or bad is better then the pain.


If this doesn't looks like a attempted justification for suicide, I'm not sure what is. And trying to rationalize it by saying he's explaining how Fearless feels doesn't make sense, because Chav is obviously using his own personal experiences and personal thoughts to describe a similar situation that Fearless is going through. It is even pointed out that Chav feels like Fearless does.

Regardless of the rationale, it is saying that suicide is OK, which it is clearly not.

I don't think anybody can realistically claim that not having a loving companion in a sexual relationship is means to justify suicide. I don't think anybody can claim that anything it means to justify suicide.

Enigmatic_Oddity wrote:

And IMHO suicide isn't necessarily an act of moral bankruptcy, but I don't think it'd be appropriate for me to discuss my views here further.



Well sadly enough, that is what the topic of not having a companion has boiled down to, a topic about suicide. So if you want to share your views, I think it makes sense to.



wobbegong
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13 Jun 2006, 10:00 am

Aspie Chav

You couldn't be more wrong.

Most of the women in my family married aspie men with LESS money.



Fearless
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13 Jun 2006, 10:03 am

wobbegong wrote:
Aspie Chav

You couldn't be more wrong.

Most of the women in my family married aspie men with LESS money.


The times were different lets not forget, today's woman has higher standards (and less religion) and is status seeking, less inhibited, etc.

Aspies that cracked under the pressure of their upbringing and are in the poorest bracket are outcasts.



Fearless
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13 Jun 2006, 10:06 am

JohnnysEntertainmentFan wrote:

Regardless of the rationale, it is saying that suicide is OK, which it is clearly not.

I don't think anybody can realistically claim that not having a loving companion in a sexual relationship is means to justify suicide. I don't think anybody can claim that anything it means to justify suicide.


Many more intelligent men and philosophers that have written extensively would disagree with you (i.e. Hume, etc) when one's life ceases to have value or is too much of a struggle to maintain then one has the choice to opt out of living.



wobbegong
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13 Jun 2006, 10:38 am

Well I don't know how Hume meant it, but I'd rate that as when, can't take myself to the toilet, can't get out of bed, none of my body works well enough to stand up, someone else has to bath me etc. And the killer would be when I couldn't communicate anything. Intense pain wouldn't be good either. Ie the last stages of death by cancer or MS or similar.

However I've heard of people happily living like this (without the intense pain) for years. So go figure.

I guess what I'm having trouble with here, is someone with an apparently healthy body, wanting to waste it because of mental pain caused by irrational thinking. Might not be such a waste if you could figure a way to become an organ donor. :? 8O



Aspie_Chav
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13 Jun 2006, 12:53 pm

JohnnysEntertainmentFan wrote:
Aspie_Chav wrote:

If this doesn't looks like a attempted justification for suicide, I'm not sure what is. And trying to rationalize it by saying he's explaining how Fearless feels doesn't make sense, because Chav is obviously using his own personal experiences and personal thoughts to describe a similar situation that Fearless is going through. It is even pointed out that Chav feels like Fearless does.

.


Not justifying but merely getting to the truth, because as I said the truth is what you need as a foundation before you build any kind of morality, without truth morality is merely man made manipulation in descise. When I think about it, that is what negative view on suicide is.

Could it be that in the past suicidal people would do things truly suicidal for a good and noble reasons like winning a war, and conquering other lands? Or could people on the brink of suicide become more easy to mind wash then totally happy people.

I know that Christianity tend to get new recruits from the poor and heartbroken opposed to the rich and happy people. My trip to Turkey was an eye opener, in a country that is starting to make money and wealth, and maybe a bit of happiness, they are starting to leave behind there religion, even though Islam is much more stronger and stricter then Christianity.

I have come to the conclusion that as we have evolved as humans we have developed a very negative view of suicide not because it is immoral but because this belief gives us more power and if one has a suicidal person on your side then you have a very brave soldier who will risk anything.

We live in an NT world and it is all about aquiring power for the sake of having power.



JohnnysEntertainmentFan
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13 Jun 2006, 3:26 pm

Fearless wrote:



Many more intelligent men and philosophers that have written extensively would disagree with you (i.e. Hume, etc) when one's life ceases to have value or is too much of a struggle to maintain then one has the choice to opt out of living.


Of course one has the choice to opt out of living. We always have a choice. It doesn't mean we should. Especially when the pain that is felt is self-inflicted. It can be changed. The pain can definitely go away. It doesn't make sense to commit suicide when the pain is just a temporary thing.

The reason I feel so strongly about this is because I was suicidal in my past, and I now see the error of my ways. I tried to OD once, and I tried to bleed myself once. I now see how wrong I was and I see many of the same destructive thought patterns in many of posters here. If you don't want to agree, fine don't. But if those who want advice on how to improve their lifes want it, I'll be more than happy to try and assist those that were once like myself. Furthermore, if you're commenting on this board, I really don't think you want to commit suicide because the concept about talking about is really asking for help.



Enigmatic_Oddity
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13 Jun 2006, 8:28 pm

JohnnysEntertainmentFan wrote:
Well sadly enough, that is what the topic of not having a companion has boiled down to, a topic about suicide. So if you want to share your views, I think it makes sense to.


I don't wish to encourage anyone to commit suicide. Regardless of whether people believe suicide is immoral or not, it isn't exactly desirable. Like you say, there is often life after depression, but there is nothing after suicide. And as far as I'm aware, Fearless didn't even say anything about suicide in the first place.



JohnnysEntertainmentFan
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14 Jun 2006, 9:08 am

Enigmatic_Oddity wrote:

I don't wish to encourage anyone to commit suicide. Regardless of whether people believe suicide is immoral or not, it isn't exactly desirable. Like you say, there is often life after depression, but there is nothing after suicide.


Ah, my bad. I thought you were defending the position of it, thus supporting it.



Enigmatic_Oddity wrote:
And as far as I'm aware, Fearless didn't even say anything about suicide in the first place.


Yeah, it was in the first post, but it also came up in dialogue between posts too.



JohnnysEntertainmentFan
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14 Jun 2006, 1:23 pm

Sorry for the double post, but a user that couldn't log in sent me an e-mail regarding this topic:


Fearless I'm trying to find the words to strongly show how going to college will help you.

First if you have no money(I did not) you can get grants,loans to cover it all. Its just filling

out paperwork. You absolutely do have access to the money you need to go. Many schools

have open addmission so if you have a pulse they will admit you. (having at least a GED

and taking some admissin test is needed,but even if you bomb the test they will still

admit you) Sure it will be very stress full at first. I felt like killing myself the first week of

college. The first year even the rejects rejected me. I'm average looking with odd

behavior but I had many chances for female relationship. I was very shy but several

females express intrest in me,. Plus I made many male friends. To be honest I went to

school to get the government grant money. I stayed because of the social contact.

(before I lived as you do no job, housebound, no money, no hope). Take a lite load

12 hours (min for full time, thats like 3 or 4 classes). Take easy classes. Live in the

dorms. You are depressed you likely need to get on an anti-depressant(I was).

who cares if you get a degree? To tell the truth I would love to be at college now.

I went to college at 23 but there are many older students. You will have alot of young

women to choose from! You know at your house you have zero. You need to get out of

the house and the places to go is college.



Last edited by JohnnysEntertainmentFan on 14 Jun 2006, 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fearless
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14 Jun 2006, 3:37 pm

"Some of us don't feel the rewards as strongly as we feel the punishments. We don't see life's beauty as clearly as we see the disorder. The comfort we receive doesn't cancel the pain. Suicide is the only relief from that kind of life." --Tom Day



JohnnysEntertainmentFan
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14 Jun 2006, 3:53 pm

Fearless wrote:
"Some of us don't feel the rewards as strongly as we feel the punishments. We don't see life's beauty as clearly as we see the disorder. The comfort we receive doesn't cancel the pain. Suicide is the only relief from that kind of life." --Tom Day


Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm hearing from you quoting that is that you reject all of the advice and hints people have given you, and you aren't willing to try them. May I ask why?

I think (and I believe other people that have posted think the same as well), that the reason you posted, and keep posting to the forums about this issue is because you wanted help with it? Am I wrong? You seem to be against any thought besides suicide and think that your life will never change. I really don't understand it. Maybe you could explain it for me.