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Pandora_Box
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13 Dec 2010, 8:18 pm

I see and maybe realize, more now than earlier in my life, that my own rules may be setting me back from having any relationship with any woman. I tend to live my life based on certain expectations and certain standards, that I don't think most people can understand or even live by. I think the issue is the person I am looking for would have be designed by me. I have never met a single, opposite person I could love. It ends up they all break my rules.
I tend to live by a very strict people code:

-Stick to your word, which basically means do what you say you're going to do

-Communication, I understand when people are busy. I'm kind of a busy person myself, but if we made plans and you can't make it communicate that to me. Don't tell me the next day after I planned everything out.

-Respect and Trust, just because we're boyfriend and girlfriend doesn't mean you automatically gain special permissions. I still have to get to know you intimately.

-Social Contract, we make promises even if they aren't exact promises like "I promise" this has to go with stick to your word. When you say something it becomes a kind of unspoken promise. You break your promises you change the terms and agreements of the social contract you set for. The social contract isn't set up. Its created by your actions and words.

I know this sounds a bit strict, sounds a bit closed off and rough. And I do agree and realize it is. I'm trying to work on it. Just my rules have saved my life emotionally for a long time. I don't know how to let go of them, because if I do I get manipulated and hurt and unwise. Its a blurse. It blesses me and protects me and allows me to be safe from people wanting to hurt me. It curses me because it makes me farther from the people I should love.

Does anyone else have this problem?

Does anyone else create rules that people can't live by, but you can live by?



Taupey
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13 Dec 2010, 8:39 pm

I'm not so sure if it's a bad thing, but yes, I have my own rules about communicating, understanding, respecting and trusting when it comes to having any type of relationship really. It keeps toxic people at a distance and saves me a great deal of time and energy. Certain things are necessary in order to make any relationship work. No one is perfect, I realize that, but I don't have the patience for bullsh!t anymore.


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Pandora_Box
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13 Dec 2010, 8:42 pm

Taupey wrote:
I'm not so sure if it's a bad thing, but yes, I have my own rules about communicating, understanding, respecting and trusting when it comes to having any type of relationship really. It keeps toxic people at a distance and saves me a great deal of time and energy. Certain things are necessary in order to make any relationship work. No one is perfect, I realize that, but I don't have the patience for bullsh!t anymore.


This really describes me right here. I've dealt with a lot of BS. That's why I keep myself at such a distance. Because my rules are what protects me from getting a large dose of BS.

I know I'm not perfect. I saw that I am flawed with my good quality. But because I'm flawed I'm perfect.



lelia
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13 Dec 2010, 8:53 pm

What I had to learn to get along better with my husband was that we used declarative sentences differently. All his declarative sentences are provisional. All mine are promises. So I thought he was always breaking his promise. Once I realized what all his unspoken provisions were, I could cope with what I thought was wishiwashiness, but instead was his flexibility versus my rigidity. Now whenever he flipflops, instead of screaming, I take a deep breath and work on calming down. I realize now that the issue is mine and not his.



Pandora_Box
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13 Dec 2010, 8:58 pm

lelia wrote:
What I had to learn to get along better with my husband was that we used declarative sentences differently. All his declarative sentences are provisional. All mine are promises. So I thought he was always breaking his promise. Once I realized what all his unspoken provisions were, I could cope with what I thought was wishiwashiness, but instead was his flexibility versus my rigidity. Now whenever he flipflops, instead of screaming, I take a deep breath and work on calming down. I realize now that the issue is mine and not his.


Oh I know its mostly my fault. I take what people say as unspoken promises. And until they clarify and tell me that they are changing their plans, communication rule number 2 of mine, its a broken promise. I know this is my problem. But I don't know how to fix it.



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13 Dec 2010, 10:21 pm

Well, it's typical for aspies to see a relation as a strict symmetry. We expect to get in return exactly what we give. If we don't we feel betrayed.

Quote:
Stick to your word, which basically means do what you say you're going to do

Everyone has said something that he could not have kept, for various external reasons, so this is a first weakness.
The second weakness is that not everyone can accurately evaluate his word, it's just too prone to mistakes unless you carefully craft every sentence.
Then what about "I'll be back in 5 minutes", does it count as a promise? So there is also a problem in what is important and what is not in the two different minds that should match.
Finally, it turns the relation into a computation, When problems happens and they will, it will turn the relation into a big Excel worksheet where both members will bring back arguments on which they gave a pass in the past.
So, unless if it is for some very specific things at a given time: totally unproductive.

Quote:
Communication, I understand when people are busy. I'm kind of a busy person myself, but if we made plans and you can't make it communicate that to me. Don't tell me the next day after I planned everything out.

This is not communication, this is scheduling. Communication is about understanding. Very few women are secure, some can change their mind faster than you can think. If you make rigid planning you will make people feel even more insecure because they would have to provide the right answer at the first time, having little chances to change their mind for a good reason in the future.
Totally counterproductive

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Respect and Trust, just because we're boyfriend and girlfriend doesn't mean you automatically gain special permissions. I still have to get to know you intimately.

You can't ask for respect and trust, you have to earn it, it's a perpetual work.

Quote:
Social Contract, we make promises even if they aren't exact promises like "I promise" this has to go with stick to your word. When you say something it becomes a kind of unspoken promise. You break your promises you change the terms and agreements of the social contract you set for. The social contract isn't set up. Its created by your actions and words.

And this is called a marriage contract.

I agree with everything you said, I just disagree on the method. It could only work if you met someone exactly like you and I don't believe in luck that much. Love is a trade where both parties do not have the same thing to offer, it's a game of making some good things scarce and some other plenty. Life is market when years are not enough to know how the final product looks like. Everything is part of a game and everything takes time, you'll have to roll the dice more than once!


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Pandora_Box
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13 Dec 2010, 10:25 pm

SuperApsie wrote:
You can't ask for respect and trust, you have to earn it, it's a perpetual work.


Exactly. That's what I meant when I said respect and trust. Its earned. And a lot of my GFs expect to get respect and trust the moment they become my GF. They expect me to give them "permissions" and it doesn't work that way.

Quote:
I agree with everything you said, I just disagree on the method. It could only work if you met someone exactly like you and I don't believe in luck that much. Love is a trade where both parties do not have the same thing to offer, it's a game of making some good things scarce and some other plenty. Life is market when years are not enough to know how the final product looks like. Everything is part of a game and everything takes time, you'll have to roll the dice more than once!


Absolutely mundo. I definitely agree with what you're saying. I just don't know how to fix my rigidness. Because I have been hurt in the past I've become a bit of a walking board. Rules, strict schedules, etc. Because I have control issues. I don't really know how to fix it though.



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13 Dec 2010, 10:32 pm

I suppose I tended to think in terms of strict rules when I was younger although never quite as detailed or codified as you describe. I think when I felt others had to live up to my rules, it was mostly to protect myself. As I've gotten older, I'm less worried that I will be hurt by others and so I feel much more relaxed about people being whoever they are.


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13 Dec 2010, 10:35 pm

jagatai wrote:
I suppose I tended to think in terms of strict rules when I was younger although never quite as detailed or codified as you describe. I think when I felt others had to live up to my rules, it was mostly to protect myself. As I've gotten older, I'm less worried that I will be hurt by others and so I feel much more relaxed about people being whoever they are.


Is this something that just passes? Or is it something that you have to learn how to fix?


Control issues, I tell you I have them. hahahaa.



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13 Dec 2010, 10:50 pm

Pandora_Box wrote:
Absolutely mundo. I definitely agree with what you're saying. I just don't know how to fix my rigidness. Because I have been hurt in the past I've become a bit of a walking board. Rules, strict schedules, etc. Because I have control issues. I don't really know how to fix it though.

So you have a relationship problem with control then :)

I think you need to investigate what control is. You should try to explore various forms of controls, their origin, their form, their goal their efficiency. In government, in businesses, in science... Evaluate, compare, it's very important to find the right words.... How controlling yourself relate to controlling the external world and how controlling the external world relate to yourself.
Dive into ideas and do not worry because the world will not change meanwhile


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Pandora_Box
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13 Dec 2010, 10:54 pm

SuperApsie wrote:
Pandora_Box wrote:
Absolutely mundo. I definitely agree with what you're saying. I just don't know how to fix my rigidness. Because I have been hurt in the past I've become a bit of a walking board. Rules, strict schedules, etc. Because I have control issues. I don't really know how to fix it though.

So you have a relationship problem with control then :)

I think you need to investigate what control is. You should try to explore various forms of controls, their origin, their form, their goal their efficiency. In government, in businesses, in science... Evaluate, compare, it's very important to find the right words.... How controlling yourself relate to controlling the external world and how controlling the external world relate to yourself.
Dive into ideas and do not worry because the world will not change meanwhile


Interesting. I should try this.

I know this has always been a big problem I have since I was young.

If I had friends, I wanted to control what they did, where they went, what they said.

If I was with family, I wanted it my way, I wanted to control where we went,

If I had a girlfriend, I wanted her to accommodate me, I wanted to know what she did, why she didn't do what she asked

Its funny because I fear being the center of any room. But I wanted to control what people did. hahahahaaa. What an oxymoron.



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13 Dec 2010, 10:57 pm

Pandora_Box wrote:
SuperApsie wrote:
Pandora_Box wrote:
Absolutely mundo. I definitely agree with what you're saying. I just don't know how to fix my rigidness. Because I have been hurt in the past I've become a bit of a walking board. Rules, strict schedules, etc. Because I have control issues. I don't really know how to fix it though.

So you have a relationship problem with control then :)

I think you need to investigate what control is. You should try to explore various forms of controls, their origin, their form, their goal their efficiency. In government, in businesses, in science... Evaluate, compare, it's very important to find the right words.... How controlling yourself relate to controlling the external world and how controlling the external world relate to yourself.
Dive into ideas and do not worry because the world will not change meanwhile


Interesting. I should try this.

I know this has always been a big problem I have since I was young.

If I had friends, I wanted to control what they did, where they went, what they said.

If I was with family, I wanted it my way, I wanted to control where we went,

If I had a girlfriend, I wanted her to accommodate me, I wanted to know what she did, why she didn't do what she asked

Its funny because I fear being the center of any room. But I wanted to control what people did. hahahahaaa. What an oxymoron.

You must know the meanings of control, then put it in contrast with what your intention was when you were using control in those cases


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13 Dec 2010, 11:05 pm

SuperApsie wrote:
You must know the meanings of control, then put it in contrast with what your intention was when you were using control in those cases


Not sure I understand.

You kind of lost me.

I guess is like this:

If I had friends, I wanted to control what they did, where they went, what they said.

Situation: All my friends would vote for what [insert people name here] wanted. I was mad because no one voted on my side.

So the reason I tried to get them to do what I wanted them to do was because I felt no one was paying attention to me.

Is that what we're talking about?



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13 Dec 2010, 11:13 pm

Pandora_Box wrote:
SuperApsie wrote:
You must know the meanings of control, then put it in contrast with what your intention was when you were using control in those cases


Not sure I understand.

You kind of lost me.

I guess is like this:

If I had friends, I wanted to control what they did, where they went, what they said.

Situation: All my friends would vote for what [insert people name here] wanted. I was mad because no one voted on my side.

So the reason I tried to get them to do what I wanted them to do was because I felt no one was paying attention to me.

Is that what we're talking about?

This is a difficult exercise. You can't just figure it out by only thinking of it. You need words and you need to find them.
Very first thing to do: define what control is, find the exact words, preferably in different context
First thing first: write me a definition of control (lol)


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13 Dec 2010, 11:19 pm

SuperApsie wrote:
This is a difficult exercise. You can't just figure it out by only thinking of it. You need words and you need to find them.
Very first thing to do: define what control is, find the exact words, preferably in different context
First thing first: write me a definition of control (lol)


Okay.

Control: To exercise influence over, to suggest or dictate the behavior of



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13 Dec 2010, 11:24 pm

Pandora_Box wrote:
jagatai wrote:
I suppose I tended to think in terms of strict rules when I was younger although never quite as detailed or codified as you describe. I think when I felt others had to live up to my rules, it was mostly to protect myself. As I've gotten older, I'm less worried that I will be hurt by others and so I feel much more relaxed about people being whoever they are.


Is this something that just passes? Or is it something that you have to learn how to fix?


Control issues, I tell you I have them. hahahaa.


For me, things got a bit easier without necessarily making a particular effort. As I grew older, I gained a bit of confidence and that helped. I think also some of the raging hormones calmed down as I approach my 30s.

But also as I get older, I make more and more of an effort to see and accept the individual rights of others. Sometimes when I catch myself thinking it's my world and everybody darned well better follow my rules, I make a conscious effort to look at things from their perspective.

So I guess it's a bit of both. And I suppose everybody is different. What worked for me might not for you. But if I had to guess, I'd say you'll probably see things getting a bit easier over time and you may find your relationships become more comfortable and easy.


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