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lilypadfad
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12 Sep 2011, 9:46 am

Well I'm getting a tad bored of dispensing advice in the most offensive way possible. I'll be back no doubt when something else piques my interest. I'd thought I'd leave you with the following.

Let's consider the statement "Men, by and large, prefer larger breasts on their women".

This is widely held "common knowledge". I for one do not prefer larger breasts. Not sure why, I could probably break down why with some pop psychology, it's not really important. The point is for me, anything bigger than a B cup just doesn't do it for me. Much to my chagrin our society is obsessed with making them larger. Breast enhancement surgery is abound, push up bras a-plenty (even for kids :roll:), special exercises to make them look bigger. Tv and movies are dominated mainly by ladies sporting rather handsome pairs. Most men I ask about it confirm this common knowledge. There's also the interesting factoid that our primate cousins for the most part flat as pancakes except when the breasts are actually needed for feeding - it's been suggested this is due to some serious sexual selection on men's part in our distant history.

Now how crazy, how solipsistic would I have to be, on hearing that statement, to say "actually most men prefer small breasts, the ones that say otherwise are lying or brainwashed by society, the ones that really do like big ones are just jerks *pout*"?

You can probably see where I'm heading with this. When I advised women to lose weight, wear some make up, and start acting more feminine. I was accosted by white knights who leapt to the affronted ladies defense. Telling them it's ok, that not all guys were like me (read: had standards) and that it's ok to be fat because one day prince charming the chubby chaser will sweep you off your feet. Because that happens all the time right?

Same thing when I recommended men get a job, start working out, go and meet women and learn the alpha/beta/omega divide, Game and how women work in general. Several women chimed in to say they like their men timid, were completely devoid of the status-seeking instincts that plague their sisters and that Game is bad for you. Some of you bought it! Even if that is true of those particular women (which it probably isn't) look around! Tell me whose worldview seems more consistent with reality. (I've covered in a previous thread "Things women say" why you can't trust a woman's word on the men they want anyway.)

You all have a choice to improve yourselves, pull yourselves out of the quicksand, before you run out of options. I managed it. If you don't believe in the afterlife like me then you know that we only have one shot at this. You can wallow in self-pity, swallowing crumbs of hope that never come to fruition, offered by faceless entities on this website. Or you can go down fighting and reap the rewards if you succeed.


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hyperlexian
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12 Sep 2011, 9:55 am

lilypadfad wrote:
Telling them it's ok, that not all guys were like me (read: had standards) and that it's ok to be fat because one day prince charming the chubby chaser will sweep you off your feet.

yes, it does happen all the time. :D except usually it's not so much a chubby chaser as a person who simply likes a woman for who they are.

it's interesting that you state your individual preference for smaller breasts (which you even realise is different from the average man's preferences), yet you don't seem to see that other people have their own individual preferences too, regardling weight or other factors.

it's inaccurate for you to think that you know better than men and women do as to what they want in a partners. some people may be confused about their preferences, but you don't seem to know what they want either. as to your opinions of what they want... you're proven wrong every time a woman dates a nice man, a thin man, a poor man... or every time a man dates a fat woman. and it happens ALL the time.


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lilypadfad
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12 Sep 2011, 10:15 am

I'm saying forget individual preferences, stop waiting for that one person who likes you for you (and risk not meeting them ever) (See here for a laugh) and start working towards the goal of making yourself more attractive to as many of the opposite sex as possible. It's a numbers game.


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emlion
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12 Sep 2011, 10:24 am

cool story, bro.



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12 Sep 2011, 10:33 am

There is a way to offer advice to men without coming off as a misogynist or a self-righteous tool.



lilypadfad
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12 Sep 2011, 10:40 am

Quote:
There is a way to offer advice to men without coming off as a misogynist or a self-righteous tool.


Not the advice I have to give, this isn't a case of "It's not what you said it's just how you said it" it really doesn't matter how I say it - any writing that portrays women as anything other than blameless angels struggling in a man's world is regarded as misogynistic and sexist.


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12 Sep 2011, 10:44 am

lilypadfad wrote:
I'm saying forget individual preferences, stop waiting for that one person who likes you for you (and risk not meeting them ever) and start working towards the goal of making yourself more attractive to as many of the opposite sex as possible. It's a numbers game.


I did a (somewhat) empirical study on the matter ("The Ideal Man" thread) and hypothesized that in order to have the widest appeal to the opposite sex, one should strive to be as "average" as possible.

I want a smart one that takes care of herself, not an "average" one - and I don't mind being alone (too much) in the meantime.

You've certainly provided a lot of fuel for thought, and I for one thank you for it - the one thing you've made me notice is that I am actually taller than most people, I never really realized that before...



lilypadfad
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12 Sep 2011, 11:28 am

I glanced at that thread, but you seem to be focusing on physical traits too much, it's an easy mistake for men to project their own obsession with looks onto women's minds too. But it's just not there. Looks make a difference yes, physically attractive men have an minor advantage, but it's really nothing compared to the other stuff. That's why good looking guys can be lonely, while good looking girls get 50 offers a day even if she is the most horrible cow.

Apparently these two were on a documentary, they were pondering whether to have a baby, and whether the baby should be screened for the same syndrome the dad has
Image

Good luck finding an equivalent couple with the genders reversed.


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12 Sep 2011, 11:29 am

lilypadfad wrote:
Same thing when I recommended men get a job, start working out, go and meet women and learn the alpha/beta/omega divide, Game and how women work in general.


Aha, it's easier said than done, however I do agree, improving your life situation can't hurt your chances and you've got a greater chance of meeting a person of your selective preference and choice if you're more desirable. Everyone inside hungers for self-respect, acceptance and love but we need to walk before we can run and we need to start at the basics of understanding and accepting ourselves, accepting our mistakes, taking rejection and setbacks on the chin and learning from them. Sometimes it's simply a case of stopping self-defeatist thinking and refocusing ourselves.

lilypadfad wrote:
You all have a choice to improve yourselves, pull yourselves out of the quicksand, before you run out of options. I managed it. If you don't believe in the afterlife like me then you know that we only have one shot at this. You can wallow in self-pity, swallowing crumbs of hope that never come to fruition, offered by faceless entities on this website. Or you can go down fighting and reap the rewards if you succeed.


I agree, the world doesn't owe us anything, it's up to us to improve our life situation and make a difference, it's up to take action and not be a victim of circumstance. The sooner we realize this, the better.



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12 Sep 2011, 11:56 am

I am biologically female. Whether or not my gender is female is up for debate right now. I am bisexual, but let's pretend for a minute that I'm looking for a male.

I would not mind losing weight at all, and in fact I was 130lb at 5ft9in before they made me take that stupid medicine...but I would RATHER DIE than act Feminine and wear make up. That's not me! Sure, I like it just fine when other girls do that, but I would feel extremely demeaned if I had to do that. I WILL NEVER wear a dress. I WILL NEVER shave my legs. I WILL NEVER put those filthy chemicals just to look Attractive to other people! I want someone who cares about who I am, and makeup and femininity are NOT me. You're asking people to change who they are, and I won't do it.

On the other side, when I look for females, I tend to have very little respect for the ones who act too feminine (don't like bugs/reptiles, care so much about the social world, wear purses and makeup, etc...) because they seem like they're acting stupid to me. I don't like that kind of girl. Also, I have dated a girl who said she was overweight, and I want her back. I don't care about her weight; slightly overweight females can be just as pretty as regularly sized females if the rest of their appearances are correct. She was pretty. Then again, I didn't even care about how she looked because I cared about her for who she was. I would never pass up a girl who is beautiful on the inside just because she doesn't meet your standards of appearance.



lilypadfad
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12 Sep 2011, 12:24 pm

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I would not mind losing weight at all, and in fact I was 130lb at 5ft9in before they made me take that stupid medicine...but I would RATHER DIE than act Feminine and wear make up. That's not me! Sure, I like it just fine when other girls do that, but I would feel extremely demeaned if I had to do that. I WILL NEVER wear a dress. I WILL NEVER shave my legs. I WILL NEVER put those filthy chemicals just to look Attractive to other people! I want someone who cares about who I am, and makeup and femininity are NOT me. You're asking people to change who they are, and I won't do it.


That's fine, as long as you realise doing so has consequences. The consequence being most men will think you are grossly masculine and/or a die hard lesbian - it would limit your available dating pool. Knowing that and still choosing to stick by your values is admirable. But you can't then be complaining on forums that you can't find a guy you like who will put up with an unshaved unkempt woman who refuses to wear even a little bit of makeup.


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12 Sep 2011, 12:24 pm

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There's also the interesting factoid that our primate cousins for the most part flat as pancakes except when the breasts are actually needed for feeding - it's been suggested this is due to some serious sexual selection on men's part in our distant history.


Sexual selection in mammals and birds is the female's decision, not the males.

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If a female makes a bad choice of mate and her offspring dies because of it, then she has incurred a substantial loss of investment. If the male makes a bad choice of mate, however, he can simply turn around and mate again, none the poorer.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~phyl/anthro/sexsel.html

It is, however, correct that males of all species live in the illusion they could influence the females by showing off their alleged physical qualities.

This can be easily observed in intact cats. All tomcats in the catchment area of a cat in heat will fight violently to set up a rank order. But finally the female cat makes her choice, and more often than not she will ignore the alpha tomcat and prefer outsiders (in most cases, she will have a few tomcats during her heat.)

Moreover, according to estimations, between one quarter and one third of all children born in wedlock are not fathered by the husband. For understandable reasons, however, exact figures are not available.

I'm sorry to destroy your illusions, but muscles and alpha male behavior will in no way guarantee success with women.

By comparison with the cup size, you refute your own arguments. You point out that your preferences don't correspond to the prevailing taste -- but later you contend that women would prefer a certain type of man.

Nature is all about diversity. If sexual success would be confined to a particular type, all others would have died out long ago. But still there are all types of people.

Women, if they are your type or not, are obviously way smarter than you believe. They may judge clothes and furniture by appearance, but when it comes to men, the smart and amazing ones are looking for more than an impressive chest.

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... and how women work in general.


They are all different, and they are no machines which would work in a predictable way.

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Or you can go down fighting and reap the rewards if you succeed.


RRRAAWWWRRR well, this appeals to my inherent ape man! Line up guys, show your alpha attitude, wave your c***s!

Good news is, the vast majority of the smart and scintillating women on this planet are well aware that attraction is much more than the visible surface.



lilypadfad
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12 Sep 2011, 12:52 pm

I will accept your understanding of sexual selection for now, I still find it a very interesting development though, why would they have come about in the first place if not for some selection on the part of the males.

Anyway.

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I'm sorry to destroy your illusions, but muscles and alpha male behavior will in no way guarantee success with women.


Agreed on muscles, though they help a little, but learning alpha behaviour has had nothing but positive effects for me in my life, it changes the way everyone treats and views you, men and women of all ages.

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By comparison with the cup size, you refute your own arguments. You point out that your preferences don't correspond to the prevailing taste -- but later you contend that women would prefer a certain type of man.


I didn't refute my own arguments, most of what I have said has been met with "That's not true of me therefore you are talking out of your behind". I was merely pointing out that generalisations which are backed up with what you can observe around you in our culture, should not be ignored. In fact they should be accepted as reality and acted upon.

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They are all different, and they are no machines which would work in a predictable way.


I don't know why people find this so hard to accept. People ARE predictable. There are patterns in human behaviour everywhere. Almost every thought has been thought before. You pull a gun on a man he will act in one of two ways. Adrenaline will surge through his blood and he will run or he will fight. He will not sing a jaunty tune. If you do find one man on this planet who does just that, it does not invalidate the original statement. The vast majority of women respond to alpha behaviour the same way the vast majority of men respond to hot young women.

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Women, if they are your type or not, are obviously way smarter than you believe. They may judge clothes and furniture by appearance, but when it comes to men, the smart and amazing ones are looking for more than an impressive chest.


Replace "impressive chest" with "alpha behaviour" and I say: "Oh how I wish it was true." It still is true outside of western Europe and the US. Both male and female sexuality can be controlled and guided if the right societal pressures are there, but we threw them to the wind. Your profile says you are 52, take a look around, things have changed SO much since you were my age.


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12 Sep 2011, 3:30 pm

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I will accept your understanding of sexual selection for now, I still find it a very interesting development though, why would they have come about in the first place if not for some selection on the part of the males.


This is not at all my personal understanding but basic knowledge in the field of biology. In other words, proven facts, easy to verify. It has to do with the fact that females have to perform (and sometimes also have to suffer) the biggest part of the breeding job.

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...but learning alpha behaviour has had nothing but positive effects for me in my life, it changes the way everyone treats and views you, men and women of all ages.


Congrats if it works for you, but ... um, did you make kind of course for alpha behavior? Does this mean there are coaches? Not sure if i get you right in this point, but wouldn't this mean that even the most horrible weakling could learn to play the alpha then? Just curious.

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People ARE predictable. There are patterns in human behaviour everywhere. Almost every thought has been thought before. You pull a gun on a man he will act in one of two ways. Adrenaline will surge through his blood and he will run or he will fight


This is true for certain situations like the one you mention. In a threatening situation, the reptile part of the brain (brainstem) will take control and cause the fight--flight--freeze reaction incl. the adrenaline surge.

However, in normal everyday situations other parts of the brain are (or at least should be) primarily active, like the cerebrum and frontal lobes. These areas enable us to think logically, to anticipate and be creative.

I assume that most people have certain plans for their lives and that they pursue goals. Mate choice in humans is based not only on a certain self--representation and sexual attraction, but also on common interests, similar values, and future plans.

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Both male and female sexuality can be controlled and guided if the right societal pressures are there, but we threw them to the wind


Why would anyone want to control and guide others' sexuality? This is a free country, and every orientation or preference, as long as it doesn't violate laws, has its right! From asexual to bi- and homosexual, to polygamous!

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Your profile says you are 52, take a look around, things have changed SO much since you were my age.


Yes, i am 52 and still active in this respect. If course, with women my age. Things haven't changed so much since i was at your age.
There have always been (and always will be) very different people in both sexes.

With your (learned and rehearsed) alpha attitude you surely will attract attention in certain women. That's nice and i'm honestly glad for you! ~ To each their own. :D

But nonetheless, don't generalize matters too much. Sex is a wonderful pastime, sometimes even a spiritual experience, and can make one really happy. However, there's more than one way to enjoy it, and again, people are different.

Besides of cup sizes and body types, we as men are attracted to a certain personality in women. One likes the motherly type, another a party girl, another the intellectually appealing women. The same applies vice versa.

You can be very successful if choosing the right type. But not with those who are not into alpha games but prefer nerds, artists, or any other type of men.

It's all about variety.



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12 Sep 2011, 3:47 pm

... why do I even bother reading your threads, lilypadfad?

I really need to find a hobby. :?


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lilypadfad
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12 Sep 2011, 4:33 pm

I knew I'd read it somewhere. This is from wikipedia with some bonus infomation about penises, the book cited is "The Naked Woman" by Desmond Morris, I might give that a read (hidden within another book of course :P)

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The theory of sexual selection has been used to explain a number of human anatomical features. These include rounded breasts, facial hair, pubic hair and penis size. The breasts of primates are flat, yet are able to produce sufficient milk for feeding their young. The breasts of non-lactating human females are filled with fatty tissue and not milk. Thus it has been suggested the rounded female breasts are signals of fertility.[33] The evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins has speculated that the loss of the penis bone in humans, when it is present in other primates, may be due to sexual selection by females looking for an honest advertisement of good health in prospective mates. Since a human erection relies on a hydraulic pumping system, erection failure is a sensitive early warning of certain kinds of physical and mental ill health.[34] Homo also has by far the largest penis of the great apes and this may be sexually selected in much the same way as the larger testicles of Pan, another possibility is that the size of the human penis has resulted from selection for efficiency in displacing the sperm of rival males during intercourse.


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Congrats if it works for you, but ... um, did you make kind of course for alpha behavior? Does this mean there are coaches? Not sure if i get you right in this point, but wouldn't this mean that even the most horrible weakling could learn to play the alpha then? Just curious.


No, no coaches, no money spent, all the information is freely available on the internet. All it took was study and practice. Eventually you stop thinking about it and it becomes second nature to you. You become an alpha rather than just pretending to be one.

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In a threatening situation, the reptile part of the brain (brainstem) will take control and cause the fight--flight--freeze reaction incl. the adrenaline surge.


Yes! :) And the animal part of the brain controls sexual attraction too, you can no more control who you are sexually attracted to than you can "pray the gay away". The only thing Game does is teach you how to be sexually attractive to women.

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Why would anyone want to control and guide others' sexuality?


In a sentence, for the greater good. See below.

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With your (learned and rehearsed) alpha attitude you surely will attract attention in certain women.


No :) In almost ALL women. It is how they act on it that matters. Women can not chose to not be attracted to alpha behaviour. No more than you could chose to not be aroused when a hot 20 year old woman was dancing naked in front of you shouting "DO MEEEE", you still have a choice at that point though as do they. Women with self-control will chose not to debase themselves (a.k.a. "keepers").
Now let's say hypothetically that the women of my generation aren't taught s**t for self control due to terrible parenting from both mothers (who have no values themselves) and fathers (if allowed to be present at all are afraid to tell them what men are really after in their women). The only thing they hear is praise "you go girl" no matter what course of action they choose.
With lack of proper guidance both young men and women make sh***y choices and everyone else pays the price. That is why we should control sexuality. What's worse is that young women have absolutely nothing to lose, so utterly complete is their safety net. Whore it up? Wealth of contraceptives and free healthcare for STDs. Choose to become pregnant (and it is a choice)? Father is forced to pay 18 years support. Father doesn't pay or is dead? no problem big daddy government steps in with benefits and free housing.
We don't have to return to the monogamous heterosexual marriage formula, but that one does have added benefits, like the men getting married and producing children young. A man working for his family is a very productive one, everyone benefits from his labour. Women are generally happier under this "evil oppressive" system too. It also means that MOST men get to have sex on a regular basis which means most men are content instead of depressed and unmotivated. Unlike now where a small minority of men are getting the vast majority of the sex. I'm rambling again...

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Things haven't changed so much since i was at your age. There have always been (and always will be) very different people in both sexes.


I disagree, things have changed a huge amount in a short time. It's not all down to feminists anti-family actions though, the invention of the internet and mobiles phones have changed the relationship dynamics considerably. Most 18 year olds I meet have the social skills of a 12 year old. You can't beat the learning experiences you were forced to endure in the dating scene in your 20s.


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Crom is a grim, gloomy and unforgiving god, ever watching from atop his mountain in dark clouds and obscuring mists, ready to pass disapproving judgment on any and all. But he is said to value courage and tenacity in mortals, even if they ultimately fail.