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NinaMarie
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22 May 2017, 1:27 am

Hi, everybody..

I am new here, and could really use some help and information. I'm 61 and had recently been seeing a man (he's 57) for a couple of months who I was beginning to really care about. Long story short, I guess it's over because I couldn't handle his disappearing acts anymore, nor could I deal with how he didn't seem to understand why I'd be upset when he vanished for days at a time. I don't know if he is on the Aspergers spectrum, and I'm certainly not qualified to decide if he is, but after reading some posts here, so many things rang true for me and seemed to answer a lot of my questions about his behavior.

He has an extremely high IQ, and is very handsome and funny and engaging. But there were some things that left me scratching my head, so if it's ok, I'll just share them here, in hopes of understanding if it's even possible he has Aspergers.

He never initiated kissing with me, and often interrupted a romantic mood (initiated by me) by saying things like he had to 'adjust himself' when we were kissing, or suddenly yelling, 'Wow, you even smell pretty!' At the time, I thought it might just be his quirky humor or something like that. Along with the fact that he'd said he'd been celibate for decades after his marriage ended in 1987. He could also suddenly lapse into very detailed technical descriptions of things he was passionate about.. Audis and guitars. Extremely technical, as if he assumed I understood what he was talking about. He's very religious and told me he prayed every day that God 'would give him a back seat in heaven,' yet at the same time, I discovered he'd been something of an internet troll, saying really vile things to people in forums. (Which I could not wrap my head around, because in person he just didn't seem to be that kind of person at all.)

He was already calling me 'his girl' and saying that I was the one he'd been waiting for and things like that. And it made me happy, but at the same time, a little puzzled. Not only because he was saying it so soon, but also because I am very ordinary-looking, and he's gorgeous. Not that looks are everything, of course, but it all felt too good to be true.

Sorry this is so long and a bit random. I miss him very much, but it was causing so much anxiety to have these long lapses where he completely ignored my email, ignored my texts (even when I was asking him how he was feeling, because he'd had terrible headaches which turned out to be caused by really bad arthritis in the jaw.) He hated talking on the phone..almost to a point of being phobic about it, so I rarely tried phoning him when I was worried. So I'm just wondering if anyone can shed any light on this. I wish I would have at least suspected possible Aspergers sooner, because then I think I would have been more understanding and less anxious. And eventually I got angry at him too, asking him things (via text) like, 'Do you enjoy hurting me by ignoring me for days?' (And I am so rarely angry, yet the frustration and confusion got the better of me.) I don't think he enjoyed hurting me; I got the feeling after the fact that he had no idea what I was talking about, or why I'd be hurt. I wish I would have understood that it might have been Aspergers-related, though of course I don't know. But if I'd suspected it, I think I would have taken so much of this a lot less personally than I did. Maybe we could have worked things out. But from what I've read, the fact that I lost my temper with him (via text only) probably means I overwhelmed him and he wouldn't want anything to do with me ever again, even if I apologized.

Thank you so much for reading this, and for any insight you can give me.



boofle
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22 May 2017, 1:57 am

We NTs are suckers for wanting to be understanding, aren't we? :-)

Stating the obvious but any successful relationship requires active participation from both sides. Communication, etc. No one, in my opinion, should get a pass for bad behaviour. Whether they happen to have a label, or not.

Did he ever offer up an explanation for his disappearing acts? Or any of the other stuff that bothered you?

It sounds as tho you weren't happy with how he was behaving, which appears to have bordered on rude and erratic, that he was sending mixed messages, etcetera, and yet, you are kicking yourself for not having been more understanding.

Surely something can only be "worked out" if both parties come to the table?

I'm sorry if I'm not being more positive. And I'm even more sorry that despite your questions, he did not do more to reassure you. Even if he didn't think there was a problem, your texts clearly indicated there was, and imo that should have been enough for him to engage in a dialogue with you.

I'm really not sure what insight anyone can offer when, at best, you are guessing at what he may or may not have. But that's just my opinion.

My suggestion? Draw a line and move on. You do not owe an apology.



Anngables
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22 May 2017, 12:07 pm

So I guess I am NT . .. I am over emotional , very caring, very aware of others feelings and emotions to the point of it becoming overwhelming at times. I guess I am popular and have many friends. . .a lot of them have been friends for 20 plus years (male and female) I do however enjoy my own company much of the time, and am considered by others to be a strong woman willing to face troubles and adventures head on. I laugh a lot and like to use humour to cover some of my own emotions. My friends consider me somewhat a loner, they often fight hard to get me to join social events and parties.

Why am I telling you this? Because we then move onto my close friendship with an Aspie man I met about 18 months ago. After the initial stage of our friendship when he was constantly texting and messaging me, chatting all day every day often late into the night things began to change. I realise now that he is Aspie ( i didn't at the time) I used to be offended by some of his apparently abrupt answers. I used to read purely direct answers without emotions as meaning he didn't want to do something or didn't care. I would often make statements such as "if you aren't v bothered let's call an end to this" it felt as if I was always the one making arrangements. .. .. etc etc all the usual things that an NT with limited understanding of the effects of AS complain about. However I never gave up, I did begin to understand more, I read and read and read and cared enough to take a step back and not let my emotions run away with me.

Speaking on behalf of my Aspie friend. He met someone that he found fun, humorous and interesting . .. .then suddenly she started to act in a way that seemed to be constantly tripping him up. Always wanting to talk about emotions and how does he feel. He would take time out then come back and try and sort it out, then it would soon start all over again. I can tell he found it exhausting. He chose not to answer what he considered to be no win situations. Often feeling that whatever he said would be the wrong thing, and finding it easier just to ignore. . . . .however he also never gave up. He never walked away and was always ready to answer within 5 minutes when I had calmed down and text him a simple "hi"

My point for all this ramble is that the dynamics of an AS /NT friendship are harder than normal friendships. I found that I became all the things that AS folk complain about. I was needy, irrational , over emotional and demanding. This is not whom I am normally in my friendships. It is a reaction, I believe, to not understanding the cues and responses because they don't follow the normal social pattern of friendship. I would state how much I enjoyed his company, how much he made me laugh and smile. In response I would simply get a text stating "thank you" now I would smile and be happy with that but initially I would think "well he doesn't appreciate me, where is the reciprocation of things he enjoys about me" etc etc. Then I would begin digging for compliments, and my Aspie friend would run and hide until I shut up!

So I think we bring out the extremes in our personality types and that can make the clashes big . . .. . We have far less now. I do still remind him sometimes that even though what he has said is rational and in the context of the words used perfectly true The problem is I am never going to be able to stop adding emotional weighting to some statements.
In the same way I accept that he will never feel comfortable discussing emotions. Instead would like me to accept that the fact that he is still around as enough sign that he doesn't hate me!!

I wrote this as I see many posts complaining about NTs needy irrational behaviour and thought it would help to explain that this is often a response to not understanding a situation that doesn't follow our normal social rules. Also I thought it may help some of the NTs in relationships with an Aspie to understand the journey I have been on, and to see the difficulties from my friends point of view also



NinaMarie
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22 May 2017, 9:55 pm

Boofle and AnnGables, I can't thank you both enough.

Boofle, there were times he did explain his absences, but he explained them as if he were puzzled that I didn't already know what the reasons were, even though he hadn't previously told me. (And the reasons still didn't explain why he couldn't have just sent me one line, in response to my asking how he was.) He also seemed confused as to how much time had passed without any contact from him.

And when I told him that while I was about as low-maintenance a woman as it gets, I did need some reassurance (like even one line a day, even if it just said, 'Feeling tired. Talk soon'), he didn't seem to like it very much that I needed that. The irony is that I wouldn't normally have asked for even that, so soon into a relationship, except for the fact that he said he wanted to be only with me. So I guess I felt freer to tell him what I needed.

AnnGables, your situation mirrors mine in so many ways, because in the beginning he always wanted to talk to me, long online conversations into the night, texting me, etc. (Never phone conversations though, which I guess should have been a sign.) I guess that's why the switcheroo to the opposite behavior felt even more confusing and frustrating.

Many thanks again to both of you.



boofle
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23 May 2017, 2:07 pm

Nina, no thanks needed. I hope he gets back in touch. I hope things work out for you.
I just hope that you manage it with mutual respect and consideration. Your needs are as important as his.

No matter his brain wiring, we All know right from wrong. If he comes back and continues "lacking". Run like hell, cos there's likely more than wonky wiring at play.

Best of luck :heart:



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23 May 2017, 2:25 pm

I do need and want regular communication with a love-interest, but not with a friend. I think this is common enough for neurodiverse people (aspies). Because of that, one can suspect that when an aspie just disappears, he or she regards it more like a friendship than a love-interest. So, I think that should be regarded as a red flag by people that assume they are in a relationship or potential relationship with somebody neurodiverse.

Still, there is also the aspect of "getting used to" a certain amount of contact. I could "survive" contact only once a week or even once a month if I'm used to that, but if we had a period of daily contact I wouldn't be able to get back to such infrequent contact.



NinaMarie
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23 May 2017, 10:56 pm

rdos, he told me that I was 'his girl' and that he wanted to be with me and didn't want me seeing anybody else. Otherwise I never would have expected him to stay in communication with me in the way that I needed.

boofle, strangely enough he just texted me tonight, answering my text from three days ago, and being very insulted that I had asked him if there was possibly Aspergers going on. When I responded (which I shouldn't have, I guess) that it was never intended to be an insult, and that I was just trying to find an explanation, he vanished again (as he always does after one text to me answering a days-old text). I know you're right. There will never be anything resembling peace of mind with this guy (and he would never in a million years answer his phone if I called him to try to have something other than a 'text' conversation), and though it makes me very sad, I don't think there is anything I can do. Thank you for helping me realize that what I need matters too.



rdos
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24 May 2017, 3:12 am

NinaMarie wrote:
rdos, he told me that I was 'his girl' and that he wanted to be with me and didn't want me seeing anybody else. Otherwise I never would have expected him to stay in communication with me in the way that I needed.


That's just talk. He needs to show it with actions, and he doesn't when he only communicates with you erratically. The way aspies communicate (regularly with a love interest and sporadically with a friend or acquaintance) are honest signals you should pay attention to because he doesn't do this on purpose. It's just the way he is "programmed". What he says to you might simply be part of his learnt NT adapations.

Also, if you want to involve him in a discussion, don't ask him how his day was. Most aspies know this is just small-talk, and not an invitation to participate in a discussion. It's actually the same as just writing "hi". You need to write things that he will find interesting to discuss if you want a real exchange.



boofle
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24 May 2017, 2:20 pm

NinaMarie wrote:
boofle, strangely enough he just texted me tonight, answering my text from three days ago, and being very insulted that I had asked him if there was possibly Aspergers going on. When I responded (which I shouldn't have, I guess) that it was never intended to be an insult, and that I was just trying to find an explanation, he vanished again (as he always does after one text to me answering a days-old text). I know you're right. There will never be anything resembling peace of mind with this guy (and he would never in a million years answer his phone if I called him to try to have something other than a 'text' conversation), and though it makes me very sad, I don't think there is anything I can do. Thank you for helping me realize that what I need matters too.


yeah, i had a sense that he might. i don't see anything wrong with you replying to his texts, btw. i think you are looking for answers, just as i would, so it's a reasonable thing to do. don't feel guilty for wanting to "understand" his patterns of behaviour because i think most of us are like this.

so then, how to make sense of his comms patterns, or lack thereof and all the rest of the stuff you relayed in your opening post.
if i'm honest, i have alarm bells ringing but, with that said, i am also striving for fairness because i would not wish to be unduly harsh to him.
my gut tells me to suggest you knock this one on the head. something isn't "right" about him...and i don't mean a possible diagnosis re the AS. it's very possible that as he comes from a generation where there was little understanding or diagnoses available, he was overlooked.

what strikes me about this tho, is his inability to dialogue with you.

my OH has AS and was diagnosed in his mid 30s, so a late diagnosis, yet even at his worst moments where he would almost shutdown because of stress and/or some form of extreme anxiety...he always ALWAYS maintained some level of comms. even if only to say, "i can't talk to you right now".
we did not come to that easily mind, but, after the first time he went silent on me, and i explained how it made me worry and anxious in turn, he made a conscious effort to keep me in the loop. he also explained, after MUCH prodding and poking, what was going on in his head and why he needed space in those moments so that I understood (and was reassured) that he just needed some alone time etc.
i know it took effort on his part because it was not natural behaviour for him yet, he made the effort. we had many such "difficulties" in the beginning...i won't say those difficulties are over because they are not...but the point i am trying, perhaps clumsily, to make is...when i said something was an issue, he listened and did his best to put it right...we talked to each other.

so, whilst he may well be weak on social stuff, he's perfectly capable of understanding why i may need something from him, once i have explicitly made a request for clarification on something that is troubling me.

what strikes me about your situation is, despite you being perfectly rational and asking for explanations...you aren't getting the "normal" responses. my relationship is far from "normal" (by regular NT standards) but we still manage to communicate effectively most of the time...not gonna dwell on his stubborn mulishness and mistaken belief that he is always right :roll: cos that's another matter entirely.

hopefully tho, you see my point. it does not matter what label the other person carries...if they are kosher, they will eventually work with you to resolve stuff. this guy isn't doing that.

please, please step carefully with this one...personally i don't think you will shake him as easily as you think. i don't know how much you know about him, but, i would advise caution...it's not your job to navigate murky waters without ANY help from him.

his silences, his disappearances, his behaving as tho nothing is wrong sound to me like mind games...like he's trying to train you into thinking the issue is with YOU and not him. there's a red flag if ever i saw one!

you sound a lovely person from our brief interaction here...i think you deserve a hell of a lot more than he has given, to date.



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24 May 2017, 2:28 pm

Also, please remember:

Not all Aspies are like this person.



NinaMarie
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24 May 2017, 4:59 pm

Thank you so much, boofle and kraftiekortie.

Kraftiekortie, I do understand that not all Aspies are like him, and that just like everybody else, have their own individuality and idiosyncrasies. But it does help a lot that you said that, because I know it's important to remember not to generalize with a 'one size fits all label.' Especially when I don't even know if this man has Aspergers in the first place.

Boofle, it sounds like your OH has a lot of openness and self-awareness, and that must help immensely. Your post really got me thinking. Because while he has some traits that made me assume potential Aspergers, in the back of my mind the phrase 'alter ego' has been lingering.
Because when I'd discovered his 'internet troll' postings online in the very beginning of knowing him (and long before I ever suspected Aspergers) I couldn't wrap my head around how this self-effacing, self-doubting man who was so kind to me (in the beginning), and who seemed genuinely like a devout Christian could have done something like that. He was writing really horrible vile things to complete strangers in forums and comments sections.
So I think you may well be right, in that something else is going on with this guy. The irony is that in that one text message to me last night he wrote, 'I always deliberately avoid conflict.' Talk about a head-scratcher! :? Thank you again for taking the time to write, because your reply was really illuminating.



boofle
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24 May 2017, 5:31 pm

NinaMarie wrote:
Boofle, it sounds like your OH has a lot of openness and self-awareness, and that must help immensely. Your post really got me thinking. Because while he has some traits that made me assume potential Aspergers, in the back of my mind the phrase 'alter ego' has been lingering.
Because when I'd discovered his 'internet troll' postings online in the very beginning of knowing him (and long before I ever suspected Aspergers) I couldn't wrap my head around how this self-effacing, self-doubting man who was so kind to me (in the beginning), and who seemed genuinely like a devout Christian could have done something like that. He was writing really horrible vile things to complete strangers in forums and comments sections.
So I think you may well be right, in that something else is going on with this guy. The irony is that in that one text message to me last night he wrote, 'I always deliberately avoid conflict.' Talk about a head-scratcher! :? Thank you again for taking the time to write, because your reply was really illuminating.


please, Nina...no thanks are needed. in actual fact, i feel terrible that i'm not able to say anything more positive.

"deliberately avoid conflict" my butt! more like, he runs away when he senses he's about to be pinned down for explanations/answers.
can't comment on the troll stuff because i don't know what sorta stuff he's been saying but can definitely say that despite the outward charm and genial persona he presents, i sense "something else" is lurking. i could of course be wrong, but, you had enough concerns of your own that you came here. stay listening to your gut. i don't think it will steer you wrong and i sincerely hope you meet someone else that is worthy :heart: