If someone isn't interested in what you're talking about....

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BurningMoose
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20 Jul 2009, 10:50 pm

CHANGE THE f*****g SUBJECT. I know I'm using harsh language, but I feel it's necessary given the so-frequent complaint around here that "I just like to talk about different things than most people, and they get weirded out when I go on and on about my specialty subjects." There are several ways people on these boards tend to react to this situation, from what I've read:

1. They feed their ego its daily dose of superiority by claiming that "I'm just more intellectual than other people" or "people like to talk about such shallow things and I'm just not interested in that kind of stuff."
2. They say "why should I have to change? The key is finding someone who shares your interests and who can talk about them with you."
3. They complain about not being able to get along with people, but don't realize that it's something THEY are actively choosing to do which causes this (namely, only talking about things you're interested in).

All of these excuses are, of course, total BS. Conversations are not meant to go one-way: subjects are frequently changed, topics get lost or started all the time, and the two people play a verbal "tennis match" of sorts as they take turns talking about things and asking the other person about things they clearly like to talk about (or else they wouldn't be talking about it!). Droning on and on about one subject and refusing to talk about anything else is going to ANNOY THE s**t OUT OF PEOPLE, and for good reason: it's not a conversation at all! Nobody wants to be lectured by a "professor" when they're trying to have a casual social relationship (or dating).

If the person you're talking to isn't interested in what you're saying, don't just eject from the situation and b***h about how shallow they are--pay attention to topics they enjoy talking about, ask them questions about it, share your opinions about it (nicely, of course), and realize when they aren't paying attention to what you're saying (this is your SOCIAL CUE to drop the subject or change it). It's not rude, it's expected. You don't need to finish all thoughts on all subjects. Just move on. I promise they won't suddenly ask "why did you stop talking about that?" if they weren't even listening in the first place. There is an art to conversation, and no matter how AS you are, you CAN learn it if you genuinely want to get along with people and increase your social skills. I had to do it, and it's paid off more than I ever dreamed possible.

Many of the people on this board seem to believe "relationships are elusive and hard to come by" or "NTs are shallow and stupid" and stuff like that, not realizing that their total lack of social awareness is the CAUSE of their loneliness. Or, if they DO realize it's the cause, they choose to make themselves victim and refuse to admit that they can learn these skills if they so choose. THERE ARE BOOKS OUT THERE TO HELP YOU. Read them, learn how you're having an effect on people, and alter it if you want to be more social.



exhausted
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20 Jul 2009, 11:33 pm

oops. sorry.



SilverStar
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20 Jul 2009, 11:43 pm

I'm inclined to agree with you on this. It's not even the weird subjects we talk about, it's the rambling on and on that annoys most people. Conversations should be 50/50, not one-sided. It took me awhile to figure this out, but now I realize how important it is.

I know several people that are like this, and they still don't get it.

My friend goes on and on about sports statistics. He is like "Did you know so and so did this and this?" I will nod my head with disinterest, and he will keep rambling on and on about it...I'm thinking to myself, "shut up I'm not interested".

Another friend will talk and talk, and won't let you get a word in edge wise. When we are on the phone, I can leave and get a sandwich, then come back, and he won't notice. :D



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21 Jul 2009, 12:05 am

Good point about the need for Aspies to do their best to not talk to excess about the favorite subjects. I agree completely, and am guilty of it, though perhaps a bit less so now given decades of practice. Mostly I've decided to listen rather than talk.

But socialization is about much more than who talk about what for how long. There is nonverbal communication, including facial expressions and body language that elude me and many other Aspies. Many books address this issue, but few suggest that Aspies can hope to compensate for this deficit through training or practice. None of the docs I've seen, including ASD specialists, suggests that this is possible, except perhaps for HFAs diagnosed at an early age.

Socialization also hinges on secondary issues such as the ability of a person to look or act a certain way, tolerate the sensations that come with a particular environment, and even share in the eating or drinking of things. Again, Aspies often simply cannot do these things, or at least not without great difficulty, and significant fatigue afterward, what many call being "peopled out".

I'm sure each of us has different experiences and ideas on this important topic. So I'll stop here and wait to see what the next person says.



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21 Jul 2009, 12:07 am

SilverStar wrote:
Another friend will talk and talk, and won't let you get a word in edge wise. When we are on the phone, I can leave and get a sandwich, then come back, and he won't notice. :D


That's terrible! I hope I don't do that. I have been practicing at my social group, with telling short anecdotes that are funny, and only saying a few sentences, as opposed to paragraph after paragraph. Also, I am learning to draw people out, such as speak of a topic a bit, and then say something like, What do you think about this? It's really hard to do, because I love to talk. But if I bring up a topic I am interested in, then it's easier. And if other people don't find that topic interesting, I am learning to let them choose one. Reciprocity comes very hard for me.


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21 Jul 2009, 2:37 am

I agree with everything you say. Aspies that talk about their interests and expect people to listen but they don't want to do that to them in return irritates me to no end and I find them selfish. I think that's very rude and AS is no excuse for that. If you don't want to listen to something you are not interested in, just don't talk about what you want to talk about and don't talk to anybody, it's that simple.



paddy26
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21 Jul 2009, 5:11 am

that post just when on and on. I lost interest halfway through.



Vanilla_Slice
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21 Jul 2009, 2:55 pm

Yeah. As a kid it was space rockets and when I grew older it was computers, you couldn't stop me talking. Because of AS I failed to notice the body language of the other people who were listening and it was only when I was taught conversation skills that I realized what was going on.

Now when people's eyes start to glaze over, they look at their watch or cellphone, they shuffle their feet, they cross their arms or they start looking around the room I shut up.

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21 Jul 2009, 4:03 pm

All good points -- but I wouldn't be so quick to discredit the "I'm just too intellectual" argument.

The fact is that a majority of the public lives in the world of the mundane -- they do mundane activities, watch mundane TV shows (reality television is proof of that), and talk about very shallow and mundane things (sports, the weather, TV shows, celebrities, the latest songs, high profile but ultimately unimportant things).

Am I saying we should drone on and bore these people? Heck no! Know your audience, and tailor your comments to them. In some cases, you should just not say much or anything at all to people who you are obviously not on the same wavelength. In other cases, you can adjust to find what might be the one thing you and that person find jointly interesting (like I do with my barber, we talk about movies). And yeah, watch body language.

But at the end of the day, all of us need someone who is our intellectual equal, someone who shares our passion for deep thinking or deep diving into topics that require more than just a 30 second sound bite on TV or some smarmy Celebrity opining about in some disjointed fashion. We have a need that is not being met, and it is frustrating. It really is like being a genius surrounded by idiots or mindless cows, and it is disheartening that we cannot help them rise about mediocrity.

Personally, I'm lucky -- though I don't really have any deep-thinking friends anymore (people drift away, or I separate myself from them for various reasons), my wife is one of the few people who does love my long dissertations on various subjects. May everyone be as lucky :)



21 Jul 2009, 5:17 pm

Vanilla_Slice wrote:
Yeah. As a kid it was space rockets and when I grew older it was computers, you couldn't stop me talking. Because of AS I failed to notice the body language of the other people who were listening and it was only when I was taught conversation skills that I realized what was going on.

Now when people's eyes start to glaze over, they look at their watch or cellphone, they shuffle their feet, they cross their arms or they start looking around the room I shut up.

Vanilla_Slice



I expect people to tell me they are bored of hearing something or don't want to hear it or ask me if I can change the subject. I didn't know the signs you just told about were signs of "I am bored and I don't want to hear this so shut up."

I think people need to be upfront about it than expecting anyone to read their mind.



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21 Jul 2009, 5:32 pm

Spokane_Girl wrote:
Vanilla_Slice wrote:
Yeah. As a kid it was space rockets and when I grew older it was computers, you couldn't stop me talking. Because of AS I failed to notice the body language of the other people who were listening and it was only when I was taught conversation skills that I realized what was going on.

Now when people's eyes start to glaze over, they look at their watch or cellphone, they shuffle their feet, they cross their arms or they start looking around the room I shut up.

Vanilla_Slice



I expect people to tell me they are bored of hearing something or don't want to hear it or ask me if I can change the subject. I didn't know the signs you just told about were signs of "I am bored and I don't want to hear this so shut up."

I think people need to be upfront about it than expecting anyone to read their mind.


Sadly, they won't be that upfront. It's not acceptable to tell someone to their face they are boring, as to non-Aspies (and to some Aspies like me), that would be a devastating comment that would wreck their self-esteem.

I highly recommend getting a book (or many books) on body language, if what was described above wasn't intuitively obvious as a sign of boredom.



21 Jul 2009, 7:03 pm

But body movements is so unreliable and inaccurate. Just because someone looks at their watch doesn't mean they are bored or just because someone isn't looking at you doesn't mean they are bored and just because someone is on the computer and you are talking to them doesn't mean they are bored. I would rather ask if they are listening or if they don't mind me talking about Benny & Joon. And when I was a kid, my mother and my OT therapist used to tell me to change the subject and my mom used to say "No more Kevin" because I was talking about Home Alone and she would also say "I don't want to hear anymore about Anita or 101 Dalmatians or London."
I think Body language is so over rated and it leads to false assumptions and misunderstandings because people read it wrong or misinterpret it and everyone interprets it differently and it makes it even more confusing for us because each body movement can mean more than one thing. Rolling eyes doesn't always mean you're bored, it can mean lot of things like sometimes people roll their eyes because they think what the other person said was stupid or they think the person is being stupid. I am never sure why someone rolled their eyes. When I see it on here, I assume sarcasm but sometimes that face doesn't make any sense because of the way it was used in a context.



BurningMoose
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21 Jul 2009, 9:37 pm

Hey Aoi, take it from someone who DID learn about it--ASD might make it a little harder than for most, but you can absolutely go from a level of "completely missing it" to "getting it about the average amount." This is something many NT people struggle with as well.

When in conversation, I still do have to intellectualize most of it to understand it. For example, thinking to myself, "Her arms and legs are crossed--she is closed off mentally, and is not interested in what I'm saying or doing" or "She is touching my arm. This indicates interest and comfort." However, after years of practice (and I don't plan on stopping anytime soon), it happens so rapidly that I barely have to think about it at all, and believe that soon it will be "second-nature" to me. The books that are out there can ABSOLUTELY help you develop this intuition, and as a result, you appear much more socially normal and "with it," so to speak. I've seen in a multitude of studies that over 90 percent of human communication is estimated to be nonverbal (body language, tonality, etc), so getting a handle on this kind of stuff will improve your social life dramatically! I now pick up on things very easily that a few years ago I had no idea even existed!



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21 Jul 2009, 9:41 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
All good points -- but I wouldn't be so quick to discredit the "I'm just too intellectual" argument.

The fact is that a majority of the public lives in the world of the mundane -- they do mundane activities, watch mundane TV shows (reality television is proof of that), and talk about very shallow and mundane things (sports, the weather, TV shows, celebrities, the latest songs, high profile but ultimately unimportant things).

Am I saying we should drone on and bore these people? Heck no! Know your audience, and tailor your comments to them. In some cases, you should just not say much or anything at all to people who you are obviously not on the same wavelength. In other cases, you can adjust to find what might be the one thing you and that person find jointly interesting (like I do with my barber, we talk about movies). And yeah, watch body language.

But at the end of the day, all of us need someone who is our intellectual equal, someone who shares our passion for deep thinking or deep diving into topics that require more than just a 30 second sound bite on TV or some smarmy Celebrity opining about in some disjointed fashion. We have a need that is not being met, and it is frustrating. It really is like being a genius surrounded by idiots or mindless cows, and it is disheartening that we cannot help them rise about mediocrity.

Personally, I'm lucky -- though I don't really have any deep-thinking friends anymore (people drift away, or I separate myself from them for various reasons), my wife is one of the few people who does love my long dissertations on various subjects. May everyone be as lucky :)


I agree with you, and I believe I should explain a little more what I meant. I do believe that the vast majority of the public enjoys gossiping and discussing things that are very mundane or vapid, and it is absolutely a struggle to engage in this kind of small talk about things I personally consider meaningless. What I was getting at is that sometimes, it is necessary to engage in such "fluff talk," as it is considered part of most normal conversations. I meant that simply dismissing the other person as "stupid" or "shallow" is not the way to go about socializing, and doing more give-and-take: sometimes, you won't be interested in what the other person is saying, but you go along with it and ask questions because it's all part of getting to know someone. As long as they don't ramble on and on and refuse to talk about anything else, it isn't really an issue unless you turn it into one.



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21 Jul 2009, 10:02 pm

I definitely agree with the OP. That is one of the reasons I avoid conversations as much as possible.



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22 Jul 2009, 12:15 am

Spokane_Girl wrote:
I agree with everything you say. Aspies that talk about their interests and expect people to listen but they don't want to do that to them in return irritates me to no end and I find them selfish. I think that's very rude and AS is no excuse for that. If you don't want to listen to something you are not interested in, just don't talk about what you want to talk about and don't talk to anybody, it's that simple.


I agree with you that not letting other people speak can be selfish, but it doesn't necessarily mean the other person is a selfish person. These people can be obsessed and very passionate about a certain subject. This is what they know, and they really want to share all of this with other people. What happens is, they share too much, and go into too much detail about it, and their lack of proper social skills keeps them from knowing when the other person is not interested, getting bored, or when to stop talking, or when to let the other person speak.

Most people briefly mention something, then move onto something else, unless the other person seems interested in that subject, then it's ok to go into a little more detail about it.

Is it hard to find intellectual equals to have deep conversations with, yes, but that doesn't mean you can't find some common ground with normal people to talk about.