How many people are seriously afraid of firearms?



Page 13 of 15 [ 212 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next


Are you afraid of firearms?
I'm afraid of people using them wrongly, but am not afraid of their mere form. 40%  40%  [ 20 ]
I'm afraid of the mere form of firearms. 10%  10%  [ 5 ]
I don't have a problem with firearms. 32%  32%  [ 16 ]
Other stance regarding firearms that you may state below if you care to do so. 14%  14%  [ 7 ]
I don't have an opinion, I just want an option to click that says nothing. 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 50

pastafarian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 549
Location: London

28 Nov 2011, 5:33 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
You can't take a small sample of people then assume that whatever's true for them will be true for an imaginary larger population.

That's why you need stats that use ratios. They will say that "for every 100,000 people, [insert number here] is shot every month" or something. That's a fairly reliable way to work around the population difference.


UN 2002
For every 309million people 9,300 people are shot a year (US)
For every 70million people 14 people are shot a year (UK),

You estimate it for every 100,000 people and see if you are astonished by the scale of the difference.
I don't need to.



fraac
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: Mar 23, 2011
Posts: 1865

28 Nov 2011, 5:38 pm

US: 3 per 100,000 per year
UK: 0.02 per 100,000 per year

US has 150 times more killings by firearms. Agreed?



pastafarian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 549
Location: London

28 Nov 2011, 5:43 pm

I was just making it dead easy, comparing a number close to 10,000 (US), to a number close to 100 (UK).

100 times? 150 times? 50 times? 200 times?

I dont care. The ballpark its astonishing!



iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Posts: 25257
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

28 Nov 2011, 5:51 pm

fraac wrote:
US: 3 per 100,000 per year
UK: 0.02 per 100,000 per year

US has 150 times more killings by firearms. Agreed?


Britain also has 1/5 the population of the States*, so per person that would reduce it to 30 times more killings by firearms per person in the US compared to Britain, which is way more still of course. However, something to consider is that each State in the US makes its own laws regarding firearms, so by going with the country overall you're mixing in both the States which honor the 2nd Amendment and those which don't.

USA population: 313,232,044 (July 2011 est.)
UK population: 62,698,362 (July 2011 est.)

*[313,232,044 / 62,698,362 = 4.99 truncated, meaning the USA has approximately 5 times the population of the UK.]



Last edited by iamnotaparakeet on 28 Nov 2011, 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fraac
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: Mar 23, 2011
Posts: 1865

28 Nov 2011, 5:53 pm

I give up.



iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Jul 31, 2007
Posts: 25257
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

28 Nov 2011, 6:02 pm

fraac wrote:
I give up.


Sorry, I don't mean to frustrate you but really the matter with the laws of the individual states is important because just comparing the overall stats of the nation the higher rates of firearm involved murders of states are averaged. Some states will have more murders than others based on population density even, since with the more supply of people in an area the less they value each other. Some may be due to the lack of fear presented in states where lawful citizens are not permitted to defend themselves and others due to escalation of risk as you were saying. Still though, the usage of numbers for the nation generally is not a proper comparison.



Blasty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Apr 21, 2008
Posts: 1287
Location: At my workbench

29 Nov 2011, 1:23 am

Guns are bitchin'. I have lots (and then some), and always a loaded one in the night stand drawer in case someone wants to pay a surprise visit in the middle of the night. I consider it not only a responsibility to myself, but to my soon-to-be fiance as well. Imagine how it would feel to be powerless while an intruder assaulted someone you love. I question the sanity of anyone who wouldn't want at least a chance to stop the bastard before he could do it. Simply having a gun in hand ends most confrontations; relatively few actually involve shots being fired.

I feel far safer in a society where responsible people are allowed to own guns than I would in a society where nobody can. Shooting as a hobby is also a fun personal challenge and a great way to relieve stress. I would hate to be deprived of this because of other peoples' ill-founded fears.



pastafarian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 549
Location: London

29 Nov 2011, 4:26 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Britain also has 1/5 the population of the States*, so per person that would reduce it to 30 times more killings by firearms per person in the US compared to Britain, which is way more still of course. However, something to consider is that each State in the US makes its own laws regarding firearms, so by going with the country overall you're mixing in both the States which honor the 2nd Amendment and those which don't.

USA population: 313,232,044 (July 2011 est.)
UK population: 62,698,362 (July 2011 est.)

*[313,232,044 / 62,698,362 = 4.99 truncated, meaning the USA has approximately 5 times the population of the UK.]


No this is wrong (sorry if I sound frustrated). Please go back. The population difference has been accounted for - I have repeatedly said this. I said "its roughly 5 times the population" and corrected for this.

[b] I've edited this a few minutes later cos I'm trying to find some real stats and not UN 2002 stats



Last edited by pastafarian on 29 Nov 2011, 5:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

Burnbridge
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Aug 24, 2011
Posts: 971
Location: Columbus, Ohio

29 Nov 2011, 4:54 am

I am not astonished because the results don't seem surprising, they seemed obvious in the first place. ;)

If you did a second ratio for non-firearm killing, that would add perspective as well.


_________________
No dx yet ... AS=171/200,NT=13/200 ... EQ=9/SQ=128 ... AQ=39 ... MB=IntJ


Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Nov 24, 2011
Posts: 5535

29 Nov 2011, 4:58 am

What's the murder rate between the US and UK (all means)?

I bet they're pretty close.

The object used is really a moot point there.



Burnbridge
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Aug 24, 2011
Posts: 971
Location: Columbus, Ohio

29 Nov 2011, 4:59 am

Oh, and the state-by-state laws / population density deflection isn't doing it for me either.

If there was a marked increase in kill ratio due to dense populations getting on each other's nerves, there'd be a way higher kill ratio in the UK. UK is much more densely populated than the US, generally speaking.

I mean, the most dangerous (highest violent crime rate) cities in the US are St Louis, MO and Detroit, MI. Neither of those is a bustling metropolis. In fact, there's mostly just a bunch of rusty abandoned buildings there.


_________________
No dx yet ... AS=171/200,NT=13/200 ... EQ=9/SQ=128 ... AQ=39 ... MB=IntJ


pastafarian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 549
Location: London

29 Nov 2011, 5:03 am

Guys you replied to my post, I then edited it a few minutes later cos I am trying to find some UN 2010 stats.

The chart we keep refering to is 2002.



pastafarian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Aug 19, 2011
Posts: 549
Location: London

29 Nov 2011, 5:09 am

This appears to be 2002-2004 for the UK data.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

I can find murder rates in UK for 2010 (604), but not firearms figures.

This gives up to date US data and you can access all the data
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... e-us-state

Anyway, I give up too. Its the order of magnitude comparisons I find astonishing whether, its 50 times, 100 times or 150 times.



Burnbridge
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Aug 24, 2011
Posts: 971
Location: Columbus, Ohio

29 Nov 2011, 5:13 am

Total homicide rates, 2010:

South Africa: 34 per 100,000
US: 5 per 100,000
UK: 1.17 per 100,000
Japan: .46 er 100,000

[edit: stats from UNODC, United Nations Office of Drugs n Crime]
[edit: link to UN pdf]


There's a map, too that breaks down US murder by state. England is comparable to the safer US states (Iowa), Scotland is a little more violent, (comp to nebraska, oregon) Actually, New Hampshire, Iowa and Vermont are the least killingest US states. Louisiana the most killer.

p.s. it's stupid hard to get guns in Japan.


_________________
No dx yet ... AS=171/200,NT=13/200 ... EQ=9/SQ=128 ... AQ=39 ... MB=IntJ


Last edited by Burnbridge on 29 Nov 2011, 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dillogic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: Nov 24, 2011
Posts: 5535

29 Nov 2011, 5:21 am

It's hard to see if four extra murders per 100,000 people tells much in regards to whether an object is much of a factor.



Display posts from previous:  Sort by  


Page 13 of 15 [ 212 posts ] Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum
Jump to: