Page 1 of 2 [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

vibratetogether
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 589
Location: WA, USA

17 Jun 2009, 4:16 pm

Image

Image

Image



pakled
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Age: 66
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,015

17 Jun 2009, 11:41 pm

well, when their vote can actually stand (the Supreme Islamic Council can overturn anything they don't like), maybe they won't need demonstrations.

I'll leave them alone if they'll leave me alone...



just_ben
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 399
Location: That would be an ecumenical matter!

18 Jun 2009, 4:43 am

For the most part, pakled, I'd probably guess they don't really care about you.Other things on their plate, you see.
I read in the Independent once a scholars defence against apparent Islamophobic comments he made. He claimed they were 'Islamistophobic' , because there's nothing wrong with being scared of a man who's trying to kill you.


_________________
I stand alone on the cliffs of the world.


Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

18 Jun 2009, 9:34 am

I will not be ashamed of fearing the (very large) segments of Islam that stand in opposition to my way of life and to Western civilization. Just as I feel similar antipathy towards certain segments of Christianity.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

18 Jun 2009, 9:39 am

pakled wrote:
well, when their vote can actually stand (the Supreme Islamic Council can overturn anything they don't like), maybe they won't need demonstrations.

I'll leave them alone if they'll leave me alone...


The most religious of Muslims consider it their duty to God not to leave you alone. The Mission of Islam is to bring about Submission to God's Will (that is what Islam means, by the way). If not by convincing people, then by the sword.

ruveyn



vibratetogether
Supporting Member
Supporting Member

User avatar

Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 589
Location: WA, USA

18 Jun 2009, 9:41 am

Orwell wrote:
I will not be ashamed of fearing the (very large) segments of Islam that stand in opposition to my way of life and to Western civilization. Just as I feel similar antipathy towards certain segments of Christianity.


I don't think you need to feel ashamed. I'm not even saying that your fears are unfounded. The thing about radical Islam is that it is just another form of religious oppression. While they seek to oppress the world with their disgusting religious laws, they are oppressing their own people. As is shown by the youth of Iran, there is a desire within their own population to remove this oppression. I think we should take heart at their efforts to demand freedom, it can only be a good thing.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

18 Jun 2009, 9:45 am

vibratetogether wrote:

I don't think you need to feel ashamed. I'm not even saying that your fears are unfounded. The thing about radical Islam is that it is just another form of religious oppression. While they seek to oppress the world with their disgusting religious laws, they are oppressing their own people. As is shown by the youth of Iran, there is a desire within their own population to remove this oppression. I think we should take heart at their efforts to demand freedom, it can only be a good thing.


Is the protesting throng in Tehran trying to overthrow the tyranny of the Imams or is it just bitching that the election was crooked?

If the Imams remain in power, then very little will change.

Women will still have to cover their heads with cloth bags and female babies will still be mutilated.

ruveyn



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

18 Jun 2009, 9:59 am

vibratetogether wrote:
I don't think you need to feel ashamed. I'm not even saying that your fears are unfounded. The thing about radical Islam is that it is just another form of religious oppression.

The issue is that it isn't just the radical wing of Islam that is a threat. Many of the so-called "moderates" are dangerous as well.

Quote:
While they seek to oppress the world with their disgusting religious laws, they are oppressing their own people. As is shown by the youth of Iran, there is a desire within their own population to remove this oppression. I think we should take heart at their efforts to demand freedom, it can only be a good thing.

Well then, this isn't an argument against Islamophobia, just a call to support people fighting for their freedoms. Of course that is a good thing.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


0_equals_true
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,038
Location: London

18 Jun 2009, 10:19 am

ruveyn wrote:
Women will still have to cover their heads with cloth bags and female babies will still be mutilated. ruveyn

FGC is not common in Iran. it is more a of a Sunni/African thing. There is some in northern Iraq/Kurdistan.



Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

18 Jun 2009, 10:22 am

Orwell wrote:
vibratetogether wrote:
I don't think you need to feel ashamed. I'm not even saying that your fears are unfounded. The thing about radical Islam is that it is just another form of religious oppression.

The issue is that it isn't just the radical wing of Islam that is a threat. Many of the so-called "moderates" are dangerous as well.

Quote:
While they seek to oppress the world with their disgusting religious laws, they are oppressing their own people. As is shown by the youth of Iran, there is a desire within their own population to remove this oppression. I think we should take heart at their efforts to demand freedom, it can only be a good thing.

Well then, this isn't an argument against Islamophobia, just a call to support people fighting for their freedoms. Of course that is a good thing.


The assumption seems to be that a free people guided by misinformation and confusion and powerful leaders with a negative agenda can be accepted comfortably in their decisions. I would not make that assumption.



cognito
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 675

18 Jun 2009, 12:06 pm

my issue is not with the fact I am solely against islam, I am against the judeoislamochristain beliefs to start with


_________________
I am a freak, want to hold my leash?


Michjo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Mar 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,020
Location: Oxford, UK

18 Jun 2009, 12:32 pm

And how do we know the vote with rigged? There's absolutely no evidence the vote was rigged. Seems to be the fashion in todays votes, if you lose claim something untoward happened and let all the western countries try and force their preferred candidates into power. The news these days is pure propaganda (has it ever been anything else?)



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

18 Jun 2009, 12:47 pm

Michjo wrote:
And how do we know the vote with rigged? There's absolutely no evidence the vote was rigged. Seems to be the fashion in todays votes, if you lose claim something untoward happened and let all the western countries try and force their preferred candidates into power. The news these days is pure propaganda (has it ever been anything else?)

There is significant evidence of vote-rigging, actually, and Ahmadinejad won by a much larger margin than is plausible.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

18 Jun 2009, 1:15 pm

Orwell wrote:
The issue is that it isn't just the radical wing of Islam that is a threat. Many of the so-called "moderates" are dangerous as well.



The moderates are the sea in which the extremist sharks swim. Also the young male populate of the "moderate" Islamic community are a draft pool from which the Imams can get young braves willing to crash planes filled with innocent people into tall buildings.

Mohammed Attah (one of the 9/11 crazies), for example, was the son of an upper middle class family. He was not brought up by blood thirsty Wahabites. He did not go to a Maddrassah at age six to be taught to be a proper killer. But he did fall under the Wahabite spell for a number of reasons. He was a university student in Germany and felt very alienated from German society. A combination of hormones, youthful idealism and the cobbly-wobbles left him vulnerable to the preaching of the Imams who just love finding young braves willing to shed their blood for Allah the Merciful and Compassionate.

Meanwhile, ordinary good natured folk in the U.S. and Europe, trained from youth to be "fair minded" make all the necessary excuses for the young hot bloods. They point to the "moderates" (who are extremely reluctant to call out the extermists in public, by the way) and say these are just plain folks. There is nothing wrong there. But there is a lot wrong. The "moderates" are willing to tolerate the brutal inhumanity of the extremists and not make a stink in public over it. Until the so-called moderates stand up and make a stink and publicly repudiate the extremists, there will always be young men who are dying (quite literally) to become martyrs. Ill at ease young males are the cannon fodder of militant Islam.

ruveyn



Michjo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Mar 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,020
Location: Oxford, UK

18 Jun 2009, 1:24 pm

Quote:
There is significant evidence of vote-rigging, actually, and Ahmadinejad won by a much larger margin than is plausible.

Says who? western media? the opposition who lost?

Everytime there is a vote in venezuela, american media and the opposition claim vote-rigging. European media and chavezista's claim the vote was fair.

I have very little faith in statistics these days, they are manipulated to agree with agenda.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

18 Jun 2009, 1:34 pm

Michjo wrote:
Quote:
There is significant evidence of vote-rigging, actually, and Ahmadinejad won by a much larger margin than is plausible.

Says who? western media? the opposition who lost?

Everytime there is a vote in venezuela, american media and the opposition claim vote-rigging. European media and chavezista's claim the vote was fair.

I have very little faith in statistics these days, they are manipulated to agree with agenda.


The vote was by paper ballot and was counted way too fast to be believed.

In addition the spread was way out of proportion to polls taken prior to the election. If the ballots had taken a week to count and the spread was 45-55 the outcome would have been much more plausible.

Also the ballots were burned or otherwise destroyed mmediately after the count was announced. No recount is now possible. Hmmmm......


ruveyn