A very selfish and manipulative nature - AS trait?



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decoder
Snowy Owl
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:20 pm

How many of you aspies defines his/herself like this ?



Tahrfarce
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:23 pm

I'm not personally like that, though I can see how it would fit in with the deficient empathy in some cases, for sure.



Batz
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:31 pm

I would personally believe this trait as one of a sociopath. Aspies aren't manipulative, but they can be selfish. Sociopaths are manipulative and selfish. In other words, they use other people to get what they want even though they know the person isn't feeling well.



Rainbow-Squirrel
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:40 pm

This is something I still haven't understood clearly: aren't Aspies sociopaths by nature ? Why are they often refered to as two distinct groups ? Of course there are NT sociopaths but how comes Aspies are not sociopaths ?

Edit: to answer the question yes, I consider myself quite selfish, wouldn't know about manipulative, I try to do as much as I can by myself.



pekkla
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:43 pm

These sound like traits of a person with narcissistic personality disorder. One of the things that NPD people and aspies may have in common is that they don't listen so well to what others say. My understanding is that aspies don't listen well because they have poor social skills, but that narcissists don't listen well because they are the center of their own world and simply don't care to listen to what others say. Selfishness is definitely a trait of NPD. I am not a psychologist, but I do live with someone who has NPD. Not fun.



decoder
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:50 pm

The problem is, despite my naive nature (having difficulty to sense intentions, being helpful, ignoring the possibility any secret agenda), the "me" seems to have another wild face. If I take control of any body, I can easily manipulate them to my benefit in a way they cant realise. I also find myself to be very anticipative and accurate about conceiving people's characters, predicting their possible reactions to a certain event, predicting their thoughts etc. A friend once told me I was like Benjamin Linus from LOST, which is a classic evil portrayal.

Along with these I am (now) very aware that other people tend to mean nothing to me, I am so selfish that I can hardly care for someone. If I find myself doing this, I always realise this "caring" is something beneficial for me in some way. Now the important part is can this manipulative and anticipative skills be a compensational tools for the lack of social skills ? I suppose if this is the case, it is either right on the genes whichever causes the AS, or it is a necessary learned technic.

Of course I dont neglect the possibility that this nature might be a uniqe trait for me. However I choose to explain my extreme selfishness as a result of AS.



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Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:55 pm

Anyway I wouldn't worry too much, selfishness is a trait of human nature, everyone is in the world only for his/her own sake, to maximize pleasure and possibly pass the genes, there is no such thing as genuine altruism, only prosocial egoism, yeah, NT definitely mask their selfishness better than Aspies and have more weapons to get what they want, but they're just as selfish as Aspies.



buryuntime
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:56 pm

Rainbow-Squirrel wrote:
This is something I still haven't understood clearly: aren't Aspies sociopaths by nature ? Why are they often refered to as two distinct groups ? Of course there are NT sociopaths but how comes Aspies are not sociopaths ?

Edit: to answer the question yes, I consider myself quite selfish, wouldn't know about manipulative, I try to do as much as I can by myself.

No. People with AS are usually naiive and are not good liars... how do sociopaths have anything in common with AS?



decoder
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:57 pm

pekkla wrote:
These sound like traits of a person with narcissistic personality disorder. One of the things that NPD people and aspies may have in common is that they don't listen so well to what others say. My understanding is that aspies don't listen well because they have poor social skills, but that narcissists don't listen well because they are the center of their own world and simply don't care to listen to what others say. Selfishness is definitely a trait of NPD. I am not a psychologist, but I do live with someone who has NPD. Not fun.


Good point. I am aware that I have NPD for some time. So I have to ask, can a person be both NPD and AS? If so, are aspies prone to be NPDs?



Rainbow-Squirrel
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:02 pm

What's the definition/criteria of sociopath ?



LostAlien
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:07 pm

I'm manipulative but not so much selfish. I'm not sure if either are AS traits though.



Willard
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:09 pm

decoder wrote:
The problem is, despite my naive nature (having difficulty to sense intentions, being helpful, ignoring the possibility any secret agenda), the "me" seems to have another wild face. If I take control of any body, I can easily manipulate them to my benefit in a way they cant realise. I also find myself to be very anticipative and accurate about conceiving people's characters, predicting their possible reactions to a certain event, predicting their thoughts etc. A friend once told me I was like Benjamin Linus from LOST, which is a classic evil portrayal.

Along with these I am (now) very aware that other people tend to mean nothing to me, I am so selfish that I can hardly care for someone. If I find myself doing this, I always realise this "caring" is something beneficial for me in some way. Now the important part is can this manipulative and anticipative skills be a compensational tools for the lack of social skills ? I suppose if this is the case, it is either right on the genes whichever causes the AS, or it is a necessary learned technic.

Of course I dont neglect the possibility that this nature might be a uniqe trait for me. However I choose to explain my extreme selfishness as a result of AS.



None of the traits you describe sound remotely like AS. I see plenty of sociopathy and narcissism in your description, though. :cyclops:



Dilbert
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:25 pm

I'm selfish, and that isn't a bad thing. Although generations of people have been brought up to think that selfishness is bad, and that self sacrifice is a virtue. That's one of the biggest deceptions perpetuated by the society, right up there with a rigid social order and religion and consumerism.

But I'm definitely not manipulative. I don't ever interfere with the lives of others, and I expect them to leave me alone as well.



decoder
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:37 pm

Oh great another great addition to my psychological problems list: NPD, anxiety, asperger's (not really a psychological one), social phobia (got over it actually) and sociopathy :lol: :cry:

I understand from your comments that sociopathy is not a characteristic trait for AS. My ultimate question is am I too lucky to have all these or is it actually impossible to be both AS and a sociopath? Btw although I have sociopathic urges I dont really practise them.



GuyTypingOnComputer
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Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:44 pm

Rainbow-Squirrel wrote:
This is something I still haven't understood clearly: aren't Aspies sociopaths by nature ? Why are they often refered to as two distinct groups ? Of course there are NT sociopaths but how comes Aspies are not sociopaths ?

Edit: to answer the question yes, I consider myself quite selfish, wouldn't know about manipulative, I try to do as much as I can by myself.


Aspies lack theory of mind. Sociopaths exploit their understanding of theory of mind to manipulate another person.

I wouldn't label Aspies as selfish, though they are often perceived as such. An Aspie may be obsessed with their own interests, which can be perceived as selfish. An Aspie may lack the social skills to show their true concern for others that would otherwise be expected from an NT. I happen to think that NTs tend to be more self absorbed than Aspies.



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