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Darrenj777
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29 Aug 2009, 5:31 am

Neanderthals were Homo erectus that were adpated to northern enviroments to the extreme.

perhaps we shouldnt consider hybridsation so much, but rather the effect of living in northern hemisphere for a long time. The further north you go the more cultral 'autisitic' youll find people. Ainu, sammi, lapps, finns, mongols etc etc.

Southern peoples are much different.

wu xing.



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29 Aug 2009, 5:51 am

Are you sure AS is hereditary, then?


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29 Aug 2009, 6:08 am

What excactly do you find so autistic with the Sami people's culture and the others you mentioned?



Darrenj777
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29 Aug 2009, 6:19 am

i am not sure of anything.

I dont think the concept of autism as we know it now will stay the same. i think the concept is flawed.

I think humans are compelled to describe things and reduce things down to explainable groupings as per the gestalt principle. i think the chaotic flux of different human metaphysical variables leads to certin noticable topographic peaks that are what we think and refer to as autisim.

MY GUESS is that theyre a two or several fundementally different groups of autisic people. I suspect that has something to do with potential hybridaisaion between various Homo sub groups into modern man were certian hotspots of genetic data. this results in special awareness, preceptions and abilitys. some aspies behave and preceive in ways that if they lieved with other national or ethinic groups they wouldnt even be thought of as diverse. Finns Japanese, even germans could be commenly decribed as aspie in constrast to typical Brazilian or Hindi culture..

I think the other type of Autisics peoples are perhaps simply developmentallu compromised by either enviormental or deitry/allergy complications or toxins. and a third group with actuall genetic devlopmental issues.

Not enough credence is given to how naturally diverse we are as a species. we concerntrate on color and sex as the greatest indicators of divergence. Where as enviromental adpatation and the way in which we 'sense' are more fundemental to the shape and form of self.



Last edited by Darrenj777 on 29 Aug 2009, 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Darrenj777
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29 Aug 2009, 6:36 am

Skilpadde wrote:
What excactly do you find so autistic with the Sami people's culture and the others you mentioned?


wow good question. its not literal, you have to imagine how ancient enthnicity and cultural behaviours directly translate in a modern enviroment.

Sammi are seasonal hunter gathers (hyperfocus) who have female dominated culture. they live im small groups (low sociality)

interestingly, they are also have bone measurments closest to neanderthals than any other groups.

I propose that northern adpated peoples behaviour hasmore in common with autistics than southern peoples and that Sammi, kalmek Ainu etc cmform to this.



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29 Aug 2009, 7:30 am

Darrenj777 wrote:
Skilpadde wrote:
What excactly do you find so autistic with the Sami people's culture and the others you mentioned?


wow good question. its not literal, you have to imagine how ancient enthnicity and cultural behaviours directly translate in a modern enviroment.

Sammi are seasonal hunter gathers (hyperfocus) who have female dominated culture. they live im small groups (low sociality)

interestingly, they are also have bone measurments closest to neanderthals than any other groups.

I propose that northern adpated peoples behaviour hasmore in common with autistics than southern peoples and that Sammi, kalmek Ainu etc cmform to this.

Where do you live and what do you know about "northern people"?


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29 Aug 2009, 7:32 am

It seems like even neanderthals(and, farther back, look at other primate species..) were pack-oriented. We're all just somewhat-intelligent apes, to me. And then there are a lot of black autistics out there. This doesn't account for them. Maybe there's less... but is that really even because there are less of them, or they they just diagnosed less for various reasons?
What these discussions always make me think of weird questions like whether or not it's possible that there are "autistic" individuals in other group-oriented species. Like a real "lone wolf" who doesn't pick up on the others' social cues? Or would any such individuals in other species end up dying out? Could there be a benefit to having a few autistic individuals in certain species(like, with us, it seems like it definitely could be of benefit to have a few non-social people focusing on specific details to keep the rest in perspective).



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29 Aug 2009, 7:48 am

Are you sure black people existed in Neanderthal times?


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Ruaridh
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29 Aug 2009, 7:56 am

Greentea wrote:
Are you sure black people existed in Neanderthal times?


I think that the whole "Out of Africa" theory suggests that originally all people were black. And before they were people, they were covered in hair.

R.


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Darrenj777
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29 Aug 2009, 8:16 am

Silvervarg wrote:
[quote="
Where do you live and what do you know about "northern people"?


this is great i wanted to start debate.

I live in the Uk.

The sterotypes of the very cold adapted races or extremley geographically displaced peoples are closer to the autistic traits that the typical behaviours of hot adapted and very southern cultures. i think that a fair assumption to make and i believe it supported by the frequnecy of diagnosis. i belive that Aspergers is/would be far more common in sweden than in sri lanka for example.

Its a very convoluted issue as were al so mixed now in terms of genetic backgroud, thats why the 4th world or traditional populations like saami/ainu are good indicators.

please tell share your thoughts



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29 Aug 2009, 8:21 am

Ruaridh wrote:
I think that the whole "Out of Africa" theory suggests that originally all people were black.


How dare you. In my family we've never had any blacks, Jews, gays or Aspies.

Shesh :evil:

(totally kidding here, of course!) :)


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Ruaridh
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29 Aug 2009, 8:32 am

Greentea wrote:

How dare you. In my family we've never had any blacks, Jews, gays or Aspies.

Shesh :evil:

(totally kidding here, of course!) :)


Oh! Oh! Oh!

You just affected my brain chemistry!

As I started to read your post it felt like a bucket of cold water being poured on the top of my head! I currently have a light sweat on.

But no (long term) harm done ;) ... well, not to me, what it's done to international race relations is another question. :)

R.


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Greentea
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29 Aug 2009, 8:56 am

Ruaridh, it was just kidding, I'm half of those things I listed :D


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Darrenj777
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29 Aug 2009, 8:59 am

ColdBlooded wrote:
It seems like even neanderthals(and, farther back, look at other primate species..) were pack-oriented. We're all just somewhat-intelligent apes, to me. And then there are a lot of black autistics out there. This doesn't account for them. Maybe there's less... but is that really even because there are less of them, or they they just diagnosed less for various reasons?
What these discussions always make me think of weird questions like whether or not it's possible that there are "autistic" individuals in other group-oriented species. Like a real "lone wolf" who doesn't pick up on the others' social cues? Or would any such individuals in other species end up dying out? Could there be a benefit to having a few autistic individuals in certain species(like, with us, it seems like it definitely could be of benefit to have a few non-social people focusing on specific details to keep the rest in perspective).


firstly modern 'black' people would/could certainly also be hybridised. the key is too not focus on color. color is pigmentation and a result of exposure to the sun. face/head and body features are more imp. Neanderthals may/did occupy north africa and the defeinatly the levant. the original africans are few, such as the San bushmen, having been displaced by goups moving back into africa. many east/ north africans have cold adapted featues. the concept of the word 'black' people is confusing.



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29 Aug 2009, 9:48 am

Most cultures originally KEPT TO THEMSELVES! You see it TO THIS DAY! Granted, everyone points to whites wanting to be with whites, but BE HONEST! Hispanics want to be with hispanics, ESPECIALLY on a more local level, like mexicans with mexicans. Blacks want to be with blacks. Of course, I am speaking of them as GROUPS! There may always be someone in another culture you REALLY like, and it doesn't mean you can't be friends, etc...

Look at AFRICA, and that goes to TRIBES! Indians wanted to be with indians, AGAIN, down to tribes. Japanese with japanese. As for the jewish people? Read the bible! There is a phrase, in the old testament, that admonishes them not to have relations with gentiles. And abraham made that mistake and his descendants, TO THIS DAY, are fighting one another. If his first child were considered Jewish, and treated as his son, Israel would have been in Jewish hands for millenia, and there might have been peace all throughout the middle east. The holocaust wouldn't have happened to the jewish people. HECK, it might not even have happened. The Islamic faith probably wouldn't even exist.

THAT, coupled with the fact that each major race used to have VERY distinct and conflicting characteristics, and the out of africa theory sounds pretty stupid! BESIDES, they use the mutation of mitchondrial DNA and supposed DNA evidence to backup their claims over 5000 years. Never mind that they found caucasian and asian remains over 10000 years old, Written records go back at least 10000 years, there is no reference sample to really properly interpret DNA evidence, they don't know for a FACT how mitochondrial DNA works, and have no way to really figure out how it mutated. And how come only caucasions have non brown eyes?

I don't even trust carbon dating as environment could obviously change it, such things change over time, and we don't have anything tracable past a couple thousand years. Some writting is probably far more reliable.

Frankly, I can't see how anyone can believe the africa theory. I mean everyone came from one place, and ALL mutated in the SAME way in a given area, but there are dozens of other areas, all different? Though people are now intermarrying and all, the changes are different and predictable.

As for the idea of cultures being autistic, I think ALL used to be more friendly to the autistic ideal. I know WESTERN cultures tended to abandon those ideas some time ago, but many eastern ones HAVEN'T! The EASTERN ones, ironically, include BLACK, ASIAN, and WHITE! Though the western ones HAVE traditionally only been white, they now include black and asian, who are likewise affected, for the most part.

BTW I am sorry if ANYONE sees anything here as racist. To the best of my knowledge, it is all true. I don't see anything REALLY against anyone. Arabs may HATE what I said, but they DO consider abraham a prophet, so I guess they must believe that part as well.



Ruaridh
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29 Aug 2009, 9:57 am

Darrenj777 wrote:
the key is too not focus on color. color is pigmentation and a result of exposure to the sun.

.....

the concept of the word 'black' people is confusing.


I would say that "whiteness" was a lack of pigmentation and an adaptation to a lack of exposure to the sun (and consequent vitamin D deficiency) ... but I'm quite pedantic ;).

[edit] I'm also talking from a purely evolutionary point of view: other belief systems are available. [/edit]



Anyway, before my diagnosis I would often think of some of my "problems" as a clash between my "cave-man" brain and my "higher" brain. Hmmm.


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Last edited by Ruaridh on 29 Aug 2009, 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.