If a 5 year old has Aspergers....

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natesmom
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21 May 2008, 10:42 pm

Court wrote:
Hi - my 10 yo son has AS. And I agree with the poster in the beginning that pointed out that the language delay was the only thing that didnt' fit (and was attributed to high functioning Autism). However, I'd like to point out an explanation on that...

My son was dx'd with AS. But upon further evaluation, dr's discovered he had language delay. They explained that that one detail made my son HFA, not AS. But when I explained that he had severe ear infections the first two years of life and ended up w/tubes in his ears, thus seriously affecting his language developement, the dr.'s basically explained that the difference between HFA and AS is a very thin line and basically only an academic one - that being the language delay. They officially decided to not even change his initial diagnosis of AS because they saw no need to unless - somewhere down the road he could get more services if he had the HFA dx.

I agree w/the other poster too who said it's a wide spectrum and we're all on it somewhere - a lot of these labels are separated by only a thin line of distinction and share so many similarities - no wonder parents (and even dr's) can get confused!


Yep, that is so true. My son is probably more HFA not actually aspergers. He never babbled and didn't really talk until 2 years 6 months. He didn't say "hi" or mimic waving until age 2 and that was very rarely. He is also very strong at nonverbal and still a little weaker and verbal, although the difference is becoming smaller. Interesting.



mom2bax
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22 May 2008, 12:01 am

well my son is 4 1/2 actually he will tell you he is 4 7/12 (lol)
he has never been strict on routine , but maybe because we've never really had a huge routne here and i am not sure if it helped him from getting "stuck" on a routine or if it would actulaay be better for him.
my son loves numbers and is great at math he is currently working on times tables and division but has never really had any other obsessions so to speak. maybe he just hasn't found his thing yet or maybe numbers are just it.

he will make eye contact but will not maintain it for very long but will almost put his head in my way to make that eye contact with me.

most of his conversations are about the stuff he wants to talk about.

he had really good language skills and i would have to agree with those previous posters that said that is one of the things that would not fit in with AS becasue it is usually advanced language and development of it that is a charachteristic of AS but i am not all that familiar with the exact differences between HFA and AS i know there are different diagnostic criteria but i couldn't tell you what they are.

my son is more easy going in some ways than his NT sister but when he does get upset it seems to be more intense than her, and it lasts longer usually. it is just two different kids two different tempraments but he has certain triggers that i have figured out and some i haven't and sometimes i forget and we pay for it. sometimes he asks for different things like different routes home.

when he gets excited he jumps and flaps his hands.

my son seems to need to touch people to get their attention mainly on the stomach now that i think of it or maybe it's just whaere he reaches naturally on most. although he has tended to talk more with adults and older kids he is starting to play with the kids in his class more too which is so very exciting.

the family thing unfortunately i can't help with becasue my mom's side of the family is pretty close so we get together often enough that the epople he sees aren't really "strangers"

sometimes he gets upset if things aren't done a certain way and for some things he could care a less

as far as other's feelings it is kind of hit and miss he likes to snuggle when he wants and will come and give me snuggles if i tell him i need some but it's really up to him.

like others have said it is a spectrum so there are varying degrees within a certain diagnosis.
i know my son is not as severe as others with the AS dx, or perhaps things aren't quite as bad yet.

hopefully this has helped in some way.



Catster2
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22 May 2008, 2:55 am

Even though I wasnt diagnosed until adulthood at 5 my mum KNEW there was "something wrong with me" I had trouble interacting, wasn't mixing with the kids at my pre school and kids didn't want to play with me. She took me to a psych who told her that i was just a slow developer. I started school (known as prep equivilent to US kindergarten) at age 6 having done two years of pre school because mum knew i couldnt cope at 5 with school. Therefore I think five is a good age to be able to judge AS not younger however because as others have said at 4 and under there might be other reasons for the social differences.



2ukenkerl
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22 May 2008, 4:50 am

I am only self diagnosed, but I DO fit the bill, etc... More importantly, it seems like even SMALL odd parts of my life seem to be echoed by DIAGNOSED people. So here are MY answers!

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't life with that child be more difficult than caring for an NT child?


NOPE! My parents would tell you I was great. No yelling, social problems(Like drugs, noisy/bad friends, peer pressure, etc... Hey, bad for the kid can be good for the parent!), etc...

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't he be obsessed wit something unusual and want to talk about that obsession a lot throughout the day?


Actually, he can be quiet most of the time!

janbiv2 wrote:
Could he have had a severe language delay up until the age of 3 1/2, both expressively and receptively?


I spoke VERY early

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he have theory of mind?


As I understand it, probably.

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he have good eye contact?


He might kind of hide such problems.

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he understand how to get the attention of others appropriately (i.e. establishing eye contact first)?


How do you get eye contact when they are looking somewhere else?

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he be able to hold normal back and forth conversation with others?


He could certainly learn.

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't meltdowns be a common occurance?


Hopefully NOT, and AGAIN, he might hide it.

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't he resist changes in routine?


It depends.

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't he insist on sameness and routine?


It depends.

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't holiday gatherings with family we only see a couple of times a year be stressful?


In most such cases I stayed in one area, or I left. It depends.

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't he insist on things being done a certain way and get very upset if not?


OH MAN. My stress would PLUMMET if people didn't do some STUPID things. My insisting of strangers falls on deaf ears, and my mother acted like she was an idiot, so I might as well have not said anything half the time. So he may be quiet.

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he be looking to share his accomplishments and joys and interests with others often?


I was usually modest. As for interests, AS people are KNOWN for tangential speech, and they WILL come out then!

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he be more loving, caring and more concerned for parent's feelings than an NT child?


I doubt it. The parents often don't really care. EVEN if the child has a concern that may help EVERYONE out, it may not be followed! Still, the social problems of the child MAY mean the child SEEMS to care more.



kit000003
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26 May 2008, 12:25 pm

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't life with that child be more difficult than caring for an NT child?


Not necessarily, My sister is as NT as ever, she was the difficult one. I was the good child, the quiet child, the one that read my books, and my mom's nursing manuals and the encyclopedia and stayed out of everyone's way. I retreated to my room and shut me door if the immediate family got too much for me.

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't he be obsessed wit something unusual and want to talk about that obsession a lot throughout the day?


It depends on a multitude of things. For one, it doesn't have to be unsual. It could be cars, trains, and dinosaurs for a young boy, that's not unusual at all.

Of course, it could be something that encompasses his entire life, which is why it isn't really noticed. There was a post about people who like to know how things work, if they are 5 and are just learning how things work, then they won't be talking excessively about it yet. You'll get little snippets.

My favorite question when I was little was "why?", I had to know why things happened, or why people did things. I now call myself a data junkie, just give me the pieces, I'll figure out how to put them together.

Now, also is the possibility that the child just doesn't feel comfortable talking to someone. Which if it is to a parent, might sound bad, and at age 5 would be excessive, but I learned very early on not to talk about anything that I wanted to talk about to my mother.

janbiv2 wrote:
Could he have had a severe language delay up until the age of 3 1/2, both expressively and receptively?


The language delay thing has already been addressed by others.

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he have theory of mind?


I'll repeat someone else's sentence with a little more emphasis. No 5 year old boy actually has theory of mind.

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he have good eye contact?


The question is, what do you consider good eye contact? Because good eye contact doesn't just mean, "can the child meet my eyes?" It means "do they know when to?" and "how intense is their gaze?" A 5 yr old child with AS may decide that good eye contact means staring everyone in eyes. Or will practice eye contact at odd times, because sometimes the child realises that they act a bit different, especially if their special interest topic is social behavior. Then try to act they way others act, it's how 50% of Aspergians are still not getting diagnosed as children.

I didn't look at anyone growing up. Unless you made me mad. If I was mad I could back down any adult, because of the focus of my gaze. It made people nervous.

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he understand how to get the attention of others appropriately (i.e. establishing eye contact first)?


It depends. Have you taught him how to get the attention of others appropriately? Having AS doesn't mean the child doesn't learn, they wil actually learn exactly what you teach them. They usually won't infer anything else, but If they are taught in a way they understand, then yes he could.

I tugged on my mom's shirt if I wanted something, not too hard, but hard enough to get her attention. (because If she was talking, me talking would not have gotten through)

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he be able to hold normal back and forth conversation with others?


With who? Adults? Sure, especially if they seemed interested in him. With children his own age is where it gets odd. He may have the appearance of perfect language skills, but either not understand some of what he is saying, or have issues with types of language, literal, which has been addressed already, and pragmatics which is the how-to's of the conversation.

I hate the question, "what's up?" I swear it gets me everytime. I look up, I can't help myself. I realise about the time that I am staring up that I know the question is a form of greeting, and should be answered with either "nothing" or whatever I'm doing at the time (in short answer format), but to save face I turn my looking up into a joke and say ceiling tile, or sky, or airplane (I once saw a blue-jay).

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't meltdowns be a common occurance?


It depends. It has become fairly common thought I think that meltdowns are due to triggers, remove the triggers, remove the meltdowns. If there are no triggers at home and they don't spend a lot of time in school, which in a 5 yr old, in US they are just now in pre-K, they would have been fine. which is why sometimes it is the school that notices things are not quite right with the child, and not the parent. Schools have other children, noise, lights, no run-away comfort zone.

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't he resist changes in routine?


Do you have a set routine? Or is your schedule random enough that he can't set a routine(my household growing up). If you do, do you explain what is happening everytime it changes? That is the big thing that causes issues in routines, it has to be explained, and it has to be a good reason.

"Because I said so." is not a good reason to me. I would come back and say "That's not a reason."

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't he insist on sameness and routine?


His sameness doesn't necessarily mean the same thing to you as you might think. Also, I had a severe anxiety problem growing up, I couldn't have insisted on something to my mother's face if I wanted to.

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't holiday gatherings with family we only see a couple of times a year be stressful?


I sat in one place and watched people. I could listen to people's conversations all at once (we had a large family) So I learned to filter what I was listening to by where I was watching. I can still do this with orchestras and choirs.

janbiv2 wrote:
Wouldn't he insist on things being done a certain way and get very upset if not?


It depends, On the child, and the parents, and their living situation.

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he be looking to share his accomplishments and joys and interests with others often?


Usually no, the DSM-IV Part A number 3 is "a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or acheivements with other people." But the DSM criteria are also flawed, in that a child could be telling someone about their special interest topic, that would be spontaneous seeking to share an interest.

janbiv2 wrote:
Would he be more loving, caring and more concerned for parent's feelings than an NT child?


This cannot be viewed as criteria, because that is a child by child basis. Now I do agree with the earlier post about the child seeming to be more loving and caring because they are less emotionally mature. What you would be getting at 5 with AS is what the 5 year old NT would be doing at 3, emotionally.