Page 2 of 3 [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Anubis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Sep 2006
Age: 135
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,911
Location: Mount Herculaneum/England

15 Sep 2009, 12:44 pm

Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
TL;DR.

Stop being so concerned with theism if you're an Atheist? Too many radical atheists focus too much on attacking religion that it's almost as if they're in denial. Like nitpicking at scriptures is going to make you a better atheist. You need to live like an atheist, rather than a disgruntled theology scholar.


What does that mean - live like an atheist? Isn't BS worth noticing as what it is?


Performing a ritual of attacking opposing beliefs in such a manner can be interpreted as being insecure about your own. It's not about debating religion itself... far from it, it's about the dogmatic attitude some people take, and their total hostility to religion... as if it threatens their very existence.

It's also foolish to take religion at atheist face value. To be so unreasonably dismissive is where I realised I was wrong when I briefly identified as an Atheist.


_________________
Lalalalai.... I'll cut you up!


Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

15 Sep 2009, 1:03 pm

Anubis wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
TL;DR.

Stop being so concerned with theism if you're an Atheist? Too many radical atheists focus too much on attacking religion that it's almost as if they're in denial. Like nitpicking at scriptures is going to make you a better atheist. You need to live like an atheist, rather than a disgruntled theology scholar.


What does that mean - live like an atheist? Isn't BS worth noticing as what it is?


Performing a ritual of attacking opposing beliefs in such a manner can be interpreted as being insecure about your own. It's not about debating religion itself... far from it, it's about the dogmatic attitude some people take, and their total hostility to religion... as if it threatens their very existence.

It's also foolish to take religion at atheist face value. To be so unreasonably dismissive is where I realised I was wrong when I briefly identified as an Atheist.


There is an underlying assumption that this is some sort of attack dog reaction. If someone told me the Moon was made of green cheese and I said that was nonsense, that is not an attack, it is a correction. If your whole personality rested on the belief that the Moon was made of green cheese I suppose a denial of that might seem to be an attack.



Anubis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Sep 2006
Age: 135
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,911
Location: Mount Herculaneum/England

15 Sep 2009, 1:23 pm

Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
TL;DR.

Stop being so concerned with theism if you're an Atheist? Too many radical atheists focus too much on attacking religion that it's almost as if they're in denial. Like nitpicking at scriptures is going to make you a better atheist. You need to live like an atheist, rather than a disgruntled theology scholar.


What does that mean - live like an atheist? Isn't BS worth noticing as what it is?


Performing a ritual of attacking opposing beliefs in such a manner can be interpreted as being insecure about your own. It's not about debating religion itself... far from it, it's about the dogmatic attitude some people take, and their total hostility to religion... as if it threatens their very existence.

It's also foolish to take religion at atheist face value. To be so unreasonably dismissive is where I realised I was wrong when I briefly identified as an Atheist.


There is an underlying assumption that this is some sort of attack dog reaction. If someone told me the Moon was made of green cheese and I said that was nonsense, that is not an attack, it is a correction. If your whole personality rested on the belief that the Moon was made of green cheese I suppose a denial of that might seem to be an attack.


The thing is, it's churlish to say that you know the ultimate answer. There is no reasonably disproving some monotheistic religions, and you're not testing people's faith by saying that there's no God, you're just being annoying.


_________________
Lalalalai.... I'll cut you up!


Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

15 Sep 2009, 1:32 pm

Anubis wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
TL;DR.

Stop being so concerned with theism if you're an Atheist? Too many radical atheists focus too much on attacking religion that it's almost as if they're in denial. Like nitpicking at scriptures is going to make you a better atheist. You need to live like an atheist, rather than a disgruntled theology scholar.


What does that mean - live like an atheist? Isn't BS worth noticing as what it is?


Performing a ritual of attacking opposing beliefs in such a manner can be interpreted as being insecure about your own. It's not about debating religion itself... far from it, it's about the dogmatic attitude some people take, and their total hostility to religion... as if it threatens their very existence.

It's also foolish to take religion at atheist face value. To be so unreasonably dismissive is where I realised I was wrong when I briefly identified as an Atheist.


There is an underlying assumption that this is some sort of attack dog reaction. If someone told me the Moon was made of green cheese and I said that was nonsense, that is not an attack, it is a correction. If your whole personality rested on the belief that the Moon was made of green cheese I suppose a denial of that might seem to be an attack.


The thing is, it's churlish to say that you know the ultimate answer. There is no reasonably disproving some monotheistic religions, and you're not testing people's faith by saying that there's no God, you're just being annoying.


Right. Just like those people who say there is a God which I find annoying. Either one twists into a churlish cue. I am fully aware that a blank denial or affirmation is as effective as throwing an egg at a bank vault, but when you don't have a bazooka, an egg will have to do.



skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

15 Sep 2009, 4:35 pm

Anubis wrote:
Too many radical atheists focus too much on attacking religion that it's almost as if they're in denial.


More like very concerned and scared of the billions upon billions of people who claim to hear voices from invisible boogie men and wanting to enforce thousands of years old laws and beliefs that hold no water under any kind of closer inspection.


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


MikeH106
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 May 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,060

15 Sep 2009, 4:50 pm

I don't want this to turn into a huge fight, but I've already pointed out that ending our suffering might not be as simple as ignoring Christianity and 'living like atheists.' You see, Christians not only profess their faith in God, but also jam laws and regulations down our throats that are based on the Scriptures and false promises of personal reward.

I also want to add that it's important to distinguish between good Christians and bad Christians. The good Christians are perhaps more often than not terrorized into following God, and can often be very, very nice people. The bad Christians seem to like to dance around merrily preaching about your eternal damnation or use religion to manipulate others for personal gain, as I describe in my essay.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If only humanity could learn to have fun without victims.


_________________
Sixteen essays so far.

Like a drop of blood in a tank of flesh-eating piranhas, a new idea never fails to arouse the wrath of herd prejudice.


skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

15 Sep 2009, 5:14 pm

MikeH106 wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: If only humanity could learn to have fun without victims.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_and_Dope_Party


Image


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


zer0netgain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,613

16 Sep 2009, 7:13 am

Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
TL;DR.

Stop being so concerned with theism if you're an Atheist? Too many radical atheists focus too much on attacking religion that it's almost as if they're in denial. Like nitpicking at scriptures is going to make you a better atheist. You need to live like an atheist, rather than a disgruntled theology scholar.


What does that mean - live like an atheist? Isn't BS worth noticing as what it is?


"BS" is your perspective, not the rule of reality. I'm know people of faith think atheism is "BS." Do you want them attacking your beliefs (or lack thereof) at every opportunity?

You can choose to follow your path and share with those interested in your views but otherwise mind your peace or spend your time attacking everyone who doesn't share your views.



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

16 Sep 2009, 8:35 am

Anubis wrote:
TL;DR.

Stop being so concerned with theism if you're an Atheist? Too many radical atheists focus too much on attacking religion that it's almost as if they're in denial. Like nitpicking at scriptures is going to make you a better atheist. You need to live like an atheist, rather than a disgruntled theology scholar.

I am not sure if one can be "good" at being an atheist, or "bad" at being an atheist. It is not as if atheism is a creed to live up to, but rather it is the rejection of a particular premise.

A disgruntled theology scholar can be an atheist quite easily, the Jesus Seminar would probably come closest to that position, but many former Christians also take this position simply because they have some theology scholarship.

zer0netgain wrote:
"BS" is your perspective, not the rule of reality. I'm know people of faith think atheism is "BS." Do you want them attacking your beliefs (or lack thereof) at every opportunity?

You can choose to follow your path and share with those interested in your views but otherwise mind your peace or spend your time attacking everyone who doesn't share your views.

Most people think that BS is more akin to the rule of reality rather than perspective. For example, if someone declared that the sky was green and developed all sorts of "theories" to prove that, wouldn't we just call that unequivocal BS? Now, if you think the non-existence of God is about as true or vice versa, and some guy keeps on trying to argue otherwise with arguments one considers bad, they would also take that as BS. Why? Because there is a disagreement with a perceived fact. One can say that perspective defines our perceived facts, however, most people do believe that perceived facts correspond to rules of reality.

Attacking something at every opportunity is quite annoying, however, given that this is somewhat of a discussion forum, there should certainly be attacking of beliefs.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

16 Sep 2009, 10:36 am

Anubis wrote:
TL;DR.

Stop being so concerned with theism if you're an Atheist? Too many radical atheists focus too much on attacking religion that it's almost as if they're in denial. Like nitpicking at scriptures is going to make you a better atheist. You need to live like an atheist, rather than a disgruntled theology scholar.


One should live quietly and well. Arguing with True Believers is simply a waste of breath.

This Little Light of Mine, I'm gonna let it shine.

One should lead by example, not by exhortation.

ruveyn



Anubis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Sep 2006
Age: 135
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,911
Location: Mount Herculaneum/England

17 Sep 2009, 9:45 am

Whatever...

I've said my piece and fate will see to the rest. Those with no vision will be blinded in the coming era.


_________________
Lalalalai.... I'll cut you up!


skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

17 Sep 2009, 10:01 am

zer0netgain wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
TL;DR.

Stop being so concerned with theism if you're an Atheist? Too many radical atheists focus too much on attacking religion that it's almost as if they're in denial. Like nitpicking at scriptures is going to make you a better atheist. You need to live like an atheist, rather than a disgruntled theology scholar.


What does that mean - live like an atheist? Isn't BS worth noticing as what it is?


"BS" is your perspective, not the rule of reality. I'm know people of faith think atheism is "BS." Do you want them attacking your beliefs (or lack thereof) at every opportunity?



While the definition of "god" is vague, the popular definitions and imagery are pretty BS-y and represents little more than a lack of want to understand the universe on the part of the "faithful" and a want to hold onto a stone-age manner of thinking.


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

17 Sep 2009, 10:26 am

skafather84 wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
TL;DR.

Stop being so concerned with theism if you're an Atheist? Too many radical atheists focus too much on attacking religion that it's almost as if they're in denial. Like nitpicking at scriptures is going to make you a better atheist. You need to live like an atheist, rather than a disgruntled theology scholar.


What does that mean - live like an atheist? Isn't BS worth noticing as what it is?


"BS" is your perspective, not the rule of reality. I'm know people of faith think atheism is "BS." Do you want them attacking your beliefs (or lack thereof) at every opportunity?



While the definition of "god" is vague, the popular definitions and imagery are pretty BS-y and represents little more than a lack of want to understand the universe on the part of the "faithful" and a want to hold onto a stone-age manner of thinking.


Stone age people probably had a tough life killing and skinning and gobbling all sorts of very nasty predators. It's likely they had a more realistic viewpoint than the snake oil salesmen that worked out a way to scam people and call it religion.



skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

17 Sep 2009, 10:47 am

Sand wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
Sand wrote:
Anubis wrote:
TL;DR.

Stop being so concerned with theism if you're an Atheist? Too many radical atheists focus too much on attacking religion that it's almost as if they're in denial. Like nitpicking at scriptures is going to make you a better atheist. You need to live like an atheist, rather than a disgruntled theology scholar.


What does that mean - live like an atheist? Isn't BS worth noticing as what it is?


"BS" is your perspective, not the rule of reality. I'm know people of faith think atheism is "BS." Do you want them attacking your beliefs (or lack thereof) at every opportunity?



While the definition of "god" is vague, the popular definitions and imagery are pretty BS-y and represents little more than a lack of want to understand the universe on the part of the "faithful" and a want to hold onto a stone-age manner of thinking.


Stone age people probably had a tough life killing and skinning and gobbling all sorts of very nasty predators. It's likely they had a more realistic viewpoint than the snake oil salesmen that worked out a way to scam people and call it religion.


Well to be correct, it'd be bronze-age but my point was more to illustrate the archaic nature of the structure of such beliefs and their ineffectiveness in a world that is so different than just 100 years previous rather than the thousands of years before when the concepts were originally conceived and used.


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


greenblue
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,896
Location: Home

17 Sep 2009, 9:05 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Most people think that BS is more akin to the rule of reality rather than perspective.

Because there is a disagreement with a perceived fact. One can say that perspective defines our perceived facts, however, most people do believe that perceived facts correspond to rules of reality.

The issue is that BS is a statement made subjectively given that the person who use the term, does not like whatever a proposition holds such as seeming too absurd, nonesense or any other reason to that person, and that aspect does not make it necessarily to go along with reality, dispite few people may believe it does, it may go according to reality and it may not, given the nature of a topic such as religion, God, morality, etc. Pretty much that's related more to personal perspective, opinion, belief or disbelief, than absolute reality. Evolutionists can say that Creationism is BS, just as Creationists can say that Evolution is BS, each according to their own perspective.

Quote:
For example, if someone declared that the sky was green and developed all sorts of "theories" to prove that, wouldn't we just call that unequivocal BS?

"BS" can correspond to reality, intuitions can correspond to reality, probabilities can correspond to reality, sometimes they don't or the reality of defended views are unknown (no consensus).


_________________
?Everything is perfect in the universe - even your desire to improve it.?