Ever feel like you need to learn a whole new language...

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anxiety25
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15 Sep 2009, 8:14 am

Just to deal with others?

It seems a lot of the time when I say something straight forward, exactly as I intend it to be, others STILL try to read into it. When my bf tells me how he feels, I just stand there like a deer in the headlights... and I will say something like "I understand, I just can't relate to it, so I can't really say anything in response". To which he always starts getting pouty and upset that I don't automatically try to make everything feel all better... I just tell him how it is. He then gets defensive for some reason, and will start finding anything to use as ammunition it feels like at times, to try to make me feel bad about what I just said. I just keep reiterating that I DO understand, I just can't say anything because I cannot relate... just as I stated the first time.

There also seems to be this problem with persistence that comes up at times... he wants to come over and I tell him I don't want anyone to because I am sick and it will just make me feel worse to have someone else bugging me while I am sick. Always tries to flip it around on me "wouldn't you like to see me since it's been ___ days since you last saw me?" "Don't you want the company after being cooped up?" ....no, I want to be left alone just like I said, lol.

Why do people still insist on taking a direct statement and trying to manipulate it or twist it around?

I always feel like I have to learn a whole new language... like I should just spit out random crap when I talk and let them interpret it, because what I actually say is never actually heard or taken in anyway.


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Tim_Tex
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15 Sep 2009, 8:18 am

I have been in a similar situation myself. I had a friend who I tried to pursue romantically, and at the time, she wasn't ready for a relationship, and would use weird terminology, not really explaining what she really meant. One thing for certain, I had never heard those terms before.


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anxiety25
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15 Sep 2009, 8:31 am

The persistence thing popped up while I was typing the original message. I know what you mean Tim! I think what is most frustrating about situations like that, is when they do it with other people, the others understand or act like they do... I can't even start to pretend to understand it. I just get frustrated immediately because there is no straight answer.

BF is pushing to come over right now, and I keep telling him directly... it's like he's trying to weasel in an explanation to fit my logic, or make me feel bad to let him come over. I attempted to flip it around on him-not to manipulate, but to attempt the same thing he is trying... well, sort of. More of a rational response... of course it didn't work. This is what I said to him:

"see, your logic is opposite of me, lol-I DON'T want you to get sick, or be snapped at all night long because I do care and I know if I feel crappy, that IS going to happen, and I don't want to be left trying to explain it all night long or trying to make you feel better about it... I'd rather avoid the emotional reprocussions of something that I KNOW is going to happen if I am sick, and keep you from having to deal with them as well, because it will just be bad"

his response... of course, a guilt trip.

"We can't avoid all the emotional/cranky stuff in the relationship. I mean, if we were living together then you're gonna get sick eventually. We should be able to be around eachother in situations like this. It's good practice for both of us. I don't have to debate, I don't have to talk alot.. I can just chill out with someone. Keep you company. Question is, doesn't it actually make you feel worse being around me, even if I'm not doing those things?
"

/sigh

If he'd left it at the first part, it would have been fine. But why throw the question in at the end? That little twist of manipulation? The part that twists what I have said?


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Last edited by anxiety25 on 15 Sep 2009, 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

b9
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15 Sep 2009, 8:43 am

Quote:
Ever feel like you need to learn a whole new language...


words do not define how i think, but they are vehicles for transmission of what i think..
the symbols and signs that are available for me to express myself with do not have any bearing on the content and assembly of my thoughts.

whatever i think - i would think no matter what language i spoke (i think).



Hmmmn
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15 Sep 2009, 8:58 am

anxiety25 wrote:
"see, your logic is opposite of me, lol-I DON'T want you to get sick, or be snapped at all night long because I do care and I know if I feel crappy, that IS going to happen, and I don't want to be left trying to explain it all night long or trying to make you feel better about it... I'd rather avoid the emotional reprocussions of something that I KNOW is going to happen if I am sick, and keep you from having to deal with them as well, because it will just be bad"

his response... of course, a guilt trip.

"We can't avoid all the emotional/cranky stuff in the relationship. I mean, if we were living together then you're gonna get sick eventually. We should be able to be around eachother in situations like this. It's good practice for both of us. I don't have to debate, I don't have to talk alot.. I can just chill out with someone. Keep you company. Question is, doesn't it actually make you feel worse being around me, even if I'm not doing those things?
"



So, you know what his response is when you explain the logic behind what you want to do - he'll try and work out what the meaning behind the words is. You and I know the meaning is in not behind the words, he doesn't and you've seen it doesn't matter if you tell him there's no ulterior motive to what you say he still think there is.

Now, knowing the above do you think it's a good idea to explain your logic in a straightforward manner to him again? Persoanlly I think he'll react in exactly the same way he has previously so it would probably be a better idea to try something different.

Trying to work out what that different thing could be is where it really does get like learning another language. If I can think of anything I'll post it. Good luck.



anxiety25
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15 Sep 2009, 9:18 am

Hmmmn wrote:
So, you know what his response is when you explain the logic behind what you want to do - he'll try and work out what the meaning behind the words is. You and I know the meaning is in not behind the words, he doesn't and you've seen it doesn't matter if you tell him there's no ulterior motive to what you say he still think there is.

Now, knowing the above do you think it's a good idea to explain your logic in a straightforward manner to him again? Persoanlly I think he'll react in exactly the same way he has previously so it would probably be a better idea to try something different.

Trying to work out what that different thing could be is where it really does get like learning another language. If I can think of anything I'll post it. Good luck.


lol, yes... trying to flip it and show him where my logic is different in what I'm thinking did NOT work. He said "I'm just looking out for our relationship". :roll: (and nothing I said had anything to do with our relationship? lol)

Ah, dealing with people is so much fun, lol. So confusing.

I just don't understand why when we say something directly as we mean it, why people ALWAYS read into it. I'm assuming because that is how they deal with everyone else so it is an automatic thing, but geez is it frustrating!

Yeah, I did try another line of logic... he started this "don't you wanna see me after so long?" and I told him "yes, but not when I'm sick. After 7 days, I don't want to see someone and yell at them constantly, and I doubt that after 7 days, you want to get yelled at by me nonstop... I don't really see how that is a good interaction at all."

That seemed to do it, he stopped arguing it... Granted, I need to figure out a way to get to that sooner than previous methods, and straight forward never seems to work, lol. Either it got through to him or he finally realized he wasn't going to get me to budge and decided to stop trying.

If you do think of anything, please do share it with me. The majority of interactions for me wind up like this.


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Hmmmn
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15 Sep 2009, 9:35 am

Yep same here, often I don't even realise they're reading things into what I've said til they're walking away which is when I realise they've got totally the wrong idea...

I've got an idea about this but it's half formed, it basically involves giving the other person what they want ie. a hidden message to work out from non-verbal cues. How we do that I'm really not sure but if there's any NTs watching I think they could help. How to make it clear we need some space without making it look like we don't like them?

There will be other easier ways though they just need to be worked out through trial and error (which rules me out at the moment). Trying to play NT games isn't easy but it helps if you know they are playing them.



anxiety25
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15 Sep 2009, 9:41 am

Oh, I do catch it every time and bring it up. I'm amazed he has put up with it so long in all honesty-5 years so far 8O

We do a LOT of talking, and that helps, but that is also why I'm soooo reluctant to do it while I'm sick, lol. I've told him that.

He talks to his therapist a lot too, and she is always reminding him that what I say is very likely meant to be taken literally, not interpreted.... something he is and probably forever will be working on.

So, I mean, there are good things about it... it's just very very hard to communicate things to him without him cutting me off and taking something the wrong way or getting defensive. Even things like this... but I know he tries, and that is what keeps me going with it. If he wasn't at least trying, or didn't bother to remind himself from time to time that we think very differently, that would be it-easily.

I just don't get the head games people play unintentionally in an attempt to get their way with me. It just doesn't work, and you'd think they would catch on eventually, lol. But I suppose it is way of life for others to have to interpret things constantly.

I on the other hand, if I ask someone if they are okay or something, and they say "yeah, I'm fine", I just say "okay" and leave it at that. I forget they expect me to read into things, lol, and so I guess as he is working on his end of it, I need to be working on my end as well.


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alba
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15 Sep 2009, 9:54 am

b9 wrote:
Quote:
Ever feel like you need to learn a whole new language...


words do not define how i think, but they are vehicles for transmission of what i think..
the symbols and signs that are available for me to express myself with do not have any bearing on the content and assembly of my thoughts.

whatever i think - i would think no matter what language i spoke (i think).


What b9 said is true.

However, there is a rather large discrepancy between what I want to communicate and what is actually conveyed. What is conveyed, is invariably only a distorted approximation of what I intend to convey. It's very frustrating not having an appropriate vehicle for the expression of one's thoughts and feelings. Apparently most people are put off by my body language, which is more about my thoughts on a given subject, and less about the people to whom I'm expressing those thoughts. The solution to this dilema, of course, is to only engage in the type of superficial banter that expresses about zero of my genuine thoughts and feelings.

It seems that verbal language and social expectations are barriers preventing me from accurately or effectively communicating what is meaningful and relevant. Therefore I am rarely able to connect with anyone on a level beyond the purely superficial, unless there is some kind of chemistry involved in our interaction.

People who are attracted to you, will try harder to get to know you. They will usually pay more attention to your intent, as opposed to the actual content of the conversation. In such cases, there may be two distinct conversations taking place, one which is verbal and the other which is intuitive, sensual, or hormonal.



Last edited by alba on 15 Sep 2009, 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

ChangelingGirl
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15 Sep 2009, 10:08 am

I have this feeling some of the time, too. Particularly in the institution where I currently reside, I have a lot of difficulty getting myself across. I don't have communication issues with my boyfriend though, since he is also autistic and we have developed some symbolic communication.



anxiety25
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15 Sep 2009, 10:11 am

ChangelingGirl wrote:
I have this feeling some of the time, too. Particularly in the institution where I currently reside, I have a lot of difficulty getting myself across. I don't have communication issues with my boyfriend though, since he is also autistic and we have developed some symbolic communication.


lol, I must say that would be nice considering I don't really interact with many others :P But I suppose maybe it's good for me in ways as well, that he is not. I get my daily dose of confusion (no offense meant to NTs, just a good laugh at myself) and always wind up with a million questions. It gives me things to analyze in the evening when I can't think of anything else to do :P

It also keeps us on this learning level... which, I don't know if it's good or not. Should people ALWAYS be learning about one another? Or is it healthy to be learning the same things over and over without being able to remember it? lol.


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"I enjoyed the meetings, too. It was like having friends." -Luna Lovegood