Can anyone gives examples of Empathy?

Page 2 of 2 [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

shadfly
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 122
Location: Canada

29 Oct 2009, 8:48 am

Fuzzy wrote:
shadfly wrote:
an analogy between senses and empathy:
a virgin can only imagine
making love


And you imply that anyone lacking true empathy will never experience that bonding even if they do participate in sex.



I think the sex act itself is a catalyst. How you feel afterwards may be a better measure of empathy.



Fuzzy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,223
Location: Alberta Canada

29 Oct 2009, 9:14 am

shadfly wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
shadfly wrote:
an analogy between senses and empathy:
a virgin can only imagine
making love


And you imply that anyone lacking true empathy will never experience that bonding even if they do participate in sex.



I think the sex act itself is a catalyst. How you feel afterwards may be a better measure of empathy.


Ah, this I did not know. I suppose that would be fairly evident to someone that did feel empathy?

Thanks for the enlightenment.


_________________
davidred wrote...
I installed Ubuntu once and it completely destroyed my paying relationship with Microsoft.


b9
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,003
Location: australia

29 Oct 2009, 9:21 am

i have no sense of empathy, and my doctor tried to explain it to me. she was a nice lady and she was very smart and knew how to keep my interest. i was about 12 when she tried to convey what "empathy" was.

an example of empathy is if you are watching a person hammering a nail in and you see them hit their thumb hard, and you "wince" (a facial expression) in unison because you think "gee that would hurt very much and if that happened to my thumb i would feel extremely displeased".
you kind of imagine it happening to you and react similarly.

i understand that description. it does not help me "feel" empathy however.
if something happens to someone else but does not happen to me, then i see that it happened to them and i feel nothing because i am not them.

i can not feel pain in my thumb by watching someone flatten theirs with a hammer.

i have a very intense NT male "friend" who often rings me up to report his unhappiness, and he wants some "empathy".
i tell him he should ring someone else, but he seems to think i will understand better for some mysterious reason, so he spills his quandary out to me expecting me to care.

i do not care in the slightest that what is happening to him is happening. it is always girl trouble and broken hearts etc that he goes on about.

i tell him in a sterile way what i think from my hasty analysis, and he keeps going on and on as if he wants me to feel as bad as him and start to cry about it.

it is not my problem so i feel nothing about it and even if it was my problem i would not care about it and i would forget it.


he gets rather angry when i tire of analyzing his case (his case as far as i am concerned) and curtail him by saying "well them's the breaks!. i am tired and i am off to bed now so talk to you later".

he ususally says enragedly "are you f*ckin serious you moron? after all i've said ?!?!"

me: yep! sorry .....(beep beep beep beep etc).


i can say what situations lack empathy, and someone else can look at my descriptions and see what is missing from normalcy and therefore define empathy.

the shape of the hole defines the shape needed to fit it.



Fuzzy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,223
Location: Alberta Canada

29 Oct 2009, 10:12 am

b9 wrote:
he gets rather angry when i tire of analyzing his case (his case as far as i am concerned) and curtail him by saying "well them's the breaks!. i am tired and i am off to bed now so talk to you later".

he ususally says enragedly "are you f*ckin serious you moron? after all i've said ?!?!"

me: yep! sorry .....(beep beep beep beep etc).


And yet he never learns? Also I would stop being friends with anyone that called me names like that.

Quote:
i can say what situations lack empathy, and someone else can look at my descriptions and see what is missing from normalcy and therefore define empathy.

the shape of the hole defines the shape needed to fit it.


Yup. I also reason things in that way, but I like how you put it: the shape of the hole defines the shape needed to fit it.


_________________
davidred wrote...
I installed Ubuntu once and it completely destroyed my paying relationship with Microsoft.


Cowbird
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2009
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 63

29 Oct 2009, 10:29 am

zeldapsychology wrote:
The Wiki page mention the ability to put yourself in that persons shoes. but could you give some examples? I feel I'm able to do that I just thank differently take my College suspension I was going to the office daily to question the teacher in Psychology surely I would see this as an issue if I WAS the teacher but IMO NO! My job is to teach Psychology to the best of my ability and if my student asked me a question I didn't know I'd look it up therefore learning more which I'd love (I wouldn't feel bad learning from my students) Also the whole (I have a family card) UH My job as a Psychologist comes FIRST you're going to "grow up" and become a Psychologist and I'm your "parent" so to speak to lead the way for you. (Or that's how I SEE IT if I WAS the Psychology teacher.) So obviously I suck with this "Put yourself in the other person shoes" take. :-)


To me empathy is just being able to sense and sometimes even feel what someone else is feeling, and see it from their point of view. I find as a spectrumite I have been mostly overboard with this all my life, having either total identification/ego merger with the other person or clinical, unfeeling analysis of the person's motives and speculation on their likely feelings with no emptahy at all -- there is nothing in between for me.



JohnnyD017
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2009
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 120

29 Oct 2009, 10:42 am

Just to add... Empathy can be overridden pretty severely by something like depression. eg. One of my friends is getting married but I can't feel happy for him cos whenever I think about it i get this overwhelming feeling of sadness that I can never experience what hes going through. Maybe things like jealousy, mistrust, etc, can effect it too.

I was told that I had a few problems with empathy. One question I was asked is if I was somewhere and I saw some girl i didnt know crying what would I feel. And I said something like I wanted to know the reason first but maybe I was just thinking of some girls i know that cried for attention and I didnt want to feel anything for them. But maybe i should feel sad even for them without realising it. I dont know... Maybe he asked the question the wrong way. I always thought i felt empathy and I got really annoyed about the whole thing and thought well if I suck at empathy what good am i to anyone. Then I pictured if a future girlfriend was crying in the same situation (still didnt know the reason) and as soon as i pictured that, i felt really upset for her and almost started to cry too. Can i feel empathy for someone hypothetical more than real people? What the hell is going on!? :cry:

That hammer example is something i identify with though, I always wince when i see someone being hurt. :?



b9
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Age: 52
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,003
Location: australia

29 Oct 2009, 11:19 am

JohnnyD017 wrote:
That hammer example is something i identify with though, I always wince when i see someone being hurt. :?


if it does not happen to me i can not feel it.
my nervous system is not affected by anything that does not happen in reality to it.

another example of crude empathy is feeling like you want to yawn when you are among people who all are yawning.
i never feel any inclination to yawn when i see others yawn.

another crude example is when someone forgets the name of something and they say "it is on the tip of their tongue".
everyone scrambles to provide the missing word, but they too find they have a mental block and they say "yes i know i know it's.... it''s..."
everyone does the same but if i know it i will say it.

i am also not infected by laughter. that is an empathic thing to see the same humor that another sees.

i remain dead of response when someone is laughing and relating a story to me.

most people i am told would at least smile when they are listening to someone who is saying a story they think is humorous. i just seem to ignore their excitement and remain with no interest or response as they talk to me.

i do not even look at them.

anyway i am not looking for a response so i am off to bed.



wkirk
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Age: 73
Gender: Male
Posts: 22
Location: St Louis

29 Oct 2009, 1:06 pm

The central problem is an absence of emotional intelligence. Since both empathy and sympathy require EI, their lack is a symptom, not the basic problem.

For a long time, I was sure that people having an emotional outburst were acting. It didn’t seem real, just a ploy to gain an advantage or attention. I feel fear (a lot) but it’s more of a gut level reaction rather than a sophisticated emotion like humor or love. I would like to experience these lighter, more sophisticated emotions, and to some degree, over a long time, I’ve learned to laugh. It always surprises me when I do and I think this is one important element of emotions – they are spontaneous. Now, at least, I understand that people really experience emotions. But for me personally, it’s still a lot like trying to explain the color red to someone who’s been blind all their life.



shadfly
Raven
Raven

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 122
Location: Canada

29 Oct 2009, 10:25 pm

I guess empathy is something you don't get by wishing for it, and it's probably something that's easy to fake for many people. Kinda like when a woman fakes an orgasm, possibly.

It's a matter of responding appropriately, having a sense of the sensitivity of the situation, knowing an appropriate response. Just saying "I understand" can be reassuring to someone in distress. It's one of the few times when looking the other straight in the eye can provide an immense amount of validation. So always have that ace up your sleeve.

It's a matter of substituting a benevolent sociopathy for the empathy you are unable to feel.



Fuzzy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Age: 51
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,223
Location: Alberta Canada

29 Oct 2009, 10:33 pm

shadfly wrote:
It's a matter of substituting a benevolent sociopathy for the empathy you are unable to feel.


Right. thats called rational empathy I believe. As opposed to the instinctual cognitive empathy. Like one understands that stepping to the side so another can pass makes life more pleasant for everyone, at the expense of a tiny amount of inconvenience. Or holding a door for a stranger makes their day a little nicer, even if you dont share a sympathy, even if they dont have an armload of packages.

You dont have to emote to promote harmonious living.


_________________
davidred wrote...
I installed Ubuntu once and it completely destroyed my paying relationship with Microsoft.


Odin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,475
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA

29 Oct 2009, 10:33 pm

Me turning into an emotional wreck when I learned from a close friend that she had been raped. :cry:


_________________
My Blog: My Autistic Life


Aurore
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Dec 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,187
Location: Virginia Tech

29 Oct 2009, 10:58 pm

Cowbird wrote:
To me empathy is just being able to sense and sometimes even feel what someone else is feeling, and see it from their point of view. I find as a spectrumite I have been mostly overboard with this all my life, having either total identification/ego merger with the other person or clinical, unfeeling analysis of the person's motives and speculation on their likely feelings with no emptahy at all -- there is nothing in between for me.


I have this too. It's all or nothing for me. Sometimes I become utterly overwhelmed by it.

Fuzzy wrote:
shadfly wrote:
It's a matter of substituting a benevolent sociopathy for the empathy you are unable to feel.


Right. thats called rational empathy I believe. As opposed to the instinctual cognitive empathy. Like one understands that stepping to the side so another can pass makes life more pleasant for everyone, at the expense of a tiny amount of inconvenience. Or holding a door for a stranger makes their day a little nicer, even if you dont share a sympathy, even if they dont have an armload of packages.

You dont have to emote to promote harmonious living.


I think that's actually a kind of sympathy. Not feeling for them exactly, but caring enough to pretend to, so things are smoother for them. Or maybe you're talking about something completely different. I don't have any problems with sympathy so this is a little alien for me, it's fascinating to read though.


_________________
?Evil? No. Cursed?! No. COATED IN CHOCOLATE?! Perhaps. At one time. But NO LONGER.?


AJY
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Age: 48
Gender: Male
Posts: 35

30 Oct 2009, 12:40 am

The way I'd explain empathy is this:
NTs are not only able to recognize the emotional state of another NT, but they acquire the same emotion themselves to a certain degree. It is much more than simply "putting yourself in one's shoes" and logically identifying which emotion one should experience in a certain context. It may not make any sense to an Aspie like myself, but apparently an NT actually feels what the other person feels. This is not only applicable to negative feelings such as pain and sadness, but probably to all feelings in general.

Just observe a group of NTs in any social situation. They laugh together, cry together, even get bored and start yawning in unison. They kind of... become synchronized with one another on a totally subconscious level.



RainSong
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 May 2006
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,306
Location: Ohio

30 Oct 2009, 12:59 am

M_p_furo wrote:
I'm not much of a fan for debating, so I probably wont say anything more after this.

But I have an excerpt from a book entitled, Empathy and its development--Nancy Eisnbery, Janet Strayer pg 6

Regarding a statement by Karniol (1982) on the Information-processing model of empathy:

"We are suggesting, then, that need awareness is reached through the accessing of stored situational information which provides an interpretational context for the sequence of action and goals in the situation. Thus, need awareness is not dependent on imaginative attempts to understand what the other is thinking, feeling, or experiencing."

It goes on to say:

"It is likely that people often empathize not because they have put themselves cognitively in another person's place, but because they have retrieved relevant information from their memories that has enabled them to understand another person's situation or feelings."

I'm pretty leery about even going into this much detail b/c this isn't what the OP asked for and it will probably just muck everything up. Also, the concept of empathy is actually highly debated and has quite a few definitions.


To some extent, you do need prior experiences, but if they are very similar, it's still sympathy.

For instance, if you misplaced lost a doll at a young age, you'd learn to feel loss. Years later, if someone loses a spouse and you feel loss (despite never having lost a spouse yourself), it's empathy. You experienced the sense of loss before, but you were not in the same experience or even a particularly similar one. You would have to multiply the feeling a lot to get a better sense of what the other person is feeling.

Basically, the quotes you gave establish that people feel empathy by applying feelings they've had at some point, even if those feelings do not come from a similar enough situation or were not of the same magnitude. Furthermore, it states that people with empathy do not think, What would this person feel? They just feel, because their brains retrieved what they've learned both from personal experiences with certain feelings and what they've heard about what the appropriate reaction is (using the example up there, they'd know how it feels to loss something from their past experience with a doll, and society would have taught them over years that losing a spouse is not something that most people celebrate; rather, they feel sad about it).

I posted the definitions for empathy and sympathy a week or two ago, but I'll repost empathy.
Main Entry: em·pa·thy
Pronunciation: \ˈem-pə-thē\
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek empatheia, literally, passion, from empathēs emotional, from em- + pathos feelings, emotion — more at pathos
Date: 1850

1 : the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it
2 : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this


_________________
"Nothing worth having is easy."

Three years!


wkirk
Hummingbird
Hummingbird

User avatar

Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Age: 73
Gender: Male
Posts: 22
Location: St Louis

30 Oct 2009, 7:26 am

What evaryone said is accurate, for me. I can (usually) understand the situation, simulate the appropriate emotion and synchronize with the group. I have never been able to initiate an emption, like some NT’s who serve as the group’s emotional leaders. There’s another intermediate group of NT’s (I think); they are more spontaneous than I am but usually don’t initiate group emotions. This middle group is able to adopt an emotion without thinking about it. So, I’m always the last one to synchronize (unless there's a more out-of-touch aspie in the group, which is rare).