genocide in america

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when i say genocide, you may think jew, germany, or vietnam, cambodia

but what about america, what about the indians, american troops were ordered to wipe out hole villiages, to slaughter an entire race, yet most americans will say there has never been genocide in america

was ther, or wasnt there, what do you think?

Yes, it was a genocide.

What the state of Georgia and the US government did to the Cherokee and the other civilized tribes of the southeast was completely despicable.

First, they force the Indians to give up their way of life and assimilate, promising to allow them to live among ‘decent’ white folks in return.

Then in the 1830s, after the Indians assimilate, the greedy bastards say, “You know what? Nothing you can do will ever make you worthy of our toleration. Now, get the hell out of our state so some good white people can use the land properly.” (i.e. work it with slaves.)

A third of the Cherokees died on their forced march to Indian Territory.
…just one incident in a history of genocide.

Does it count as genocide if they didn't succeed?
And was it "deliberate and systematic extermination" (dictionary.com) or did they just try to run 'em off the good land?

If they succeeded in part, which they did, then yes.

Not generally deliberate and systematic extermination, no. But you can take your pick from these. Genocide Definitions on Wiki

Additional points will be awarded for calling people feckless and lazy and wondering why they don't do something productive with that nice desert they've been given to live in.

I have heard this argument many many times. This isn't anything that hasn't happened on every other continent where white europeans landed in the name of the king and the christian god. They've screwed the Africans, the South Americans, the North Americans, the Maori, the Aborigini, the Indians (as in India), and a few other parts of Asia. China and Japan were an exception for the most part. "Americans" are a product of the mix of many different cultures and many different peoples. It is a modern sucess story. Didn't we rise against the European colonial powers?

it's all good then

Far from it. It isn't all good. My point is that Americans keep getting singled out for what happened to the natives in 19th century, when in fact the same thing and worse has happened on every other continent. Spanish, too, are particularly vilified because of conquistadors. The truth is, every European colonial power is equally guilty.

It wan't exactly genocide since the intent to was to move the Cherokee out of the Georgia and Tennessee area. But it was homocide on an extended scale. By current standards the actions that President Jackson took would be grounds for criminal action. However, in Jackson's day, the white American population was not particularly fond of aboriginal nations.

Think of it as the American version of the Bataan Death March or ethnic cleansing. After the war, the American authories brought charges against surviving Japanese offficers who oversaw the Bataan March and they were brought up on war crimes.

ruveyn

Have there ever been brought charges against whites for killing native Americans? It seems the US Federal government is still screwing the native Americans out of funds due them for use of their land and resources. See http://www.albionmonitor.com/free/biatrustfund.html

I'm not convinced there's much to be gained by saying white europeans butchered their way across the globe (which they did) then saying white europeans in north america are a modern success story because they fought off the other white europeans - the US continued to be a European (at the very least culturally speaking) colonial power and continued using the same methods. The southern states grew fat and lazy off the sweat of African men and raped the women and girls while the North fed off the immigration from europe - off the boat into the sweatshop as it were. All the while the US continued to butcher its way across the North American plateau up to the Pacific - where it then continued to annex hawaii slaughter 300,000 in the phillipines, the CIA directed coups in Iran, Brazil, Chile etc etc etc. I may have this wrong but I understand the USA to have a fairly aggressive foreign policy to this day, if you'll excuse the understatement.

The foreign policy of the USA has passed through 4 major sectors which are obtained from 2 axis, one being the "role" of the USA worldwide (leadership (like, currently?) or the "sacred mission" (which we've had a taste during the Reagan and Dubya years)) and the degree of opening to the world (let me remind you that during the world wars, USA's involvement was minimal, it kept to itself until commercial interests were jeopardized, we then saw the power of the American industry to defend itself <.< ). This is based from an historical standpoint, obviously.

Weren't there far more/recent victims in Leipzig, Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam?

Agreed. If we keep lashing ourselves on the back for what our ancestors did - we can't move forward, we just stirr up history in all the wrong places. Yes, things like that are great examples of what not to do in the future, but for cultures to be villified or self-vilify for things that happened hundreds of years ago, doesn't make sense. What happened in Germany in the 1940's was somewhat surreal and - as far as I know - they don't take a slating for it today, and I'd argue they shouldn't, nor should anyone for that matter.

The question I have to ask as well - how many of the native Americans were actually assimilated vs. how many were shoved off to reservations or killed. I get the impression that the story of the white man completely displacing the Native American and wedging them into the southwest where they dwindled to tens of thousands - its an extremely clean and easy story, history and real events are never quite that sanitary, unified, or one-sided.

The spaniards, that's unique: the idiots destroyed evidence of the superior origin of latin american cultures. But to eliminate some dummies in whereever, i dont give a flying f**k.
So should no one.

The was a war on which the Nazis and the Japs started. In wars people get killed.

ruveyn

I dont give a flying f**k , i posted there.