Asperger's Syndrome and Psychosis



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NeantHumain
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03 Jan 2010, 5:40 pm

There is a theory that all psychiatric conditions become psychotic in their most severe manifestations. Currently, the psychotic manifestations are treated as distinct diagnostic entities from their more neurotic counterparts, but all this does is obscure the link:
Image
A surprising bit of information we can surmise from this diagram is that social skills actually improve at a certain severity as psychopathic symptoms (e.g., charm, confidence, manipulativeness) are accreted before declining again as simple schizophrenia is reached:
Image
This also shows why many serial killers, in addition to being psychopaths, exhibit some autistic symptoms as well: Psychopathy accretes autistic symptoms in the form of autistic psychopathy as it approaches a shared terminal severity: simple schizophrenia.



IdahoRose
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03 Jan 2010, 5:48 pm

Fascinating stuff. Looks like you really did your research too. Good job!



Angnix
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03 Jan 2010, 6:07 pm

At various points in my life, I've been dxed with everything in the middle three diagrams there or something similar. But not anything in the Asperger's line or the Histrionic line.

Plus Mania isn't a separate entity, Bipolar has to have depression too, though adult ADHD and adult Bipolar can present with some similar symptoms actually.


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iniudan
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03 Jan 2010, 6:18 pm

Interesting but I don't think the different autistic spectrum can actually transform into psychoses, it just that we are more susceptible to them since of our marginality, which put u more often in situation that put us more at risk to develop them and our lower social contact make it so that a larger part of our population try to escape through use of imagination or through other way to alter reality, thus increase risk that some psyche that are not from reality come transplant themselves into it.


So it just something that add itself to it not the autism that transform itself into a psychoses, at least in the way I see thing.



NeantHumain
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03 Jan 2010, 6:59 pm

Angnix wrote:
At various points in my life, I've been dxed with everything in the middle three diagrams there or something similar. But not anything in the Asperger's line or the Histrionic line.

Plus Mania isn't a separate entity, Bipolar has to have depression too, though adult ADHD and adult Bipolar can present with some similar symptoms actually.

Bipolar I doesn't technically require any major depressive episodes, just mania. Anyway it's my opinion that the depression aspect of bipolar disorder is a result of major depression's comorbidity with ADHD as mania is merely extreme ADHD. Depression often comes about in ADHD because of the struggles the distractible hyperactive must face; it is similar in mania.



TPE2
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03 Jan 2010, 7:35 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
There is a theory that all psychiatric conditions become psychotic in their most severe manifestations. Currently, the psychotic manifestations are treated as distinct diagnostic entities from their more neurotic counterparts, but all this does is obscure the link:
Image
A surprising bit of information we can surmise from this diagram is that social skills actually improve at a certain severity as psychopathic symptoms (e.g., charm, confidence, manipulativeness) are accreted before declining again as simple schizophrenia is reached:
Image
This also shows why many serial killers, in addition to being psychopaths, exhibit some autistic symptoms as well: Psychopathy accretes autistic symptoms in the form of autistic psychopathy as it approaches a shared terminal severity: simple schizophrenia.


At the first look, these does not seems to make much sense:

1 - What is that "autistic psychopathy"? (it is the old name of AS, but I imagine that it mean a different thing in this diagram)

2 - NPD seems so diferent than Simple schizophrenia that I doubt about the connections; seems more logical that NPD leads to mania, or perhaps to BPD and disorganized schizophrenia

3 - The conection between OCD to delusional disorder and paranoid schizophrenia does not seem much logical also; will make much more sence if the neurosis is "Paranoid Personality Disorder"



Tadzio
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03 Jan 2010, 7:51 pm

There is a theory that all psychiatric conditions are neurological, and that all neurological conditions oscillate with forced normalization between psychotic and neurologic impairments. Because of the confusion in logic between deduction and induction, most of the DSM-IV is nonsense. DSM-V looks to be worse.

The nebulosity of neuropsychiatry is addressed from the distant foot-hills at:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... s84634.pdf

As an attemped clarification is broached on epilepsy, a more than quadrupled factor with autisms, on page 11, to page 14, the problems with a unified phenomenology between the scientific method of neurology and the witchdoctors of psychology is cited (as E. Fuller Torrey discovered, witchdoctors are better at delivering beneficial effects with treatments for psychiatric problems than psychiatrists are).

The correlation curve looks more like a curve graphing high sugar intake, and the resultant hypoglycemic dip, minor secondary peak, and near fatal last dip, over time. Hypoglycemia also results in various signs and symptoms listed in the DSM.

By the old MMPI, if you don't like red sports cars, you don't have to worry about schizophrenia at all.

Tadzio



carltcwc
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05 Jan 2010, 5:30 am

This chart does not make much sence at all. First of all Autism/aspergers and ADHD and the personality disorders are not neurosis's. Autism/aspergers is a developmental disorder, and ADHD, psychopathy, and the other type B personality disorders are behavioral disorders. However i would agree that all genetic mental disorders are somehow related seeing that most people who have one, have another or at least symptoms or others usually. The chart should read something more like this.
NEUROSIS: Major Depression, OCD, Hypomania, Anxiety, etc.
PSYCHOSIS: Schizophrenia spectrum, Bipolar 1, Psychotic Depression, Delusional Disorder, etc.
DEVELOPMENTAL DISORDERS: Autism spectrum, Learning Disorders, Mental Retardation, etc.
BEHAVIORAL DISORDERS: ADHD, ODD, Classic Psychopathy, Antisocial/Narcissistic/Histronic/Borderline PD's, etc.
Not to mention other disorders that cant be classified by any of these.
The brain is a very complex thing where anything can go wrong for any reason.



collectoritis
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05 Jan 2010, 7:50 am

Hey , don't diss the Mania.......WrestleMania that is :lol:



Callista
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05 Jan 2010, 8:05 am

ADHD is behavioral in expression but probably neurological or biochemical in origin...


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PunkyKat
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05 Jan 2010, 3:29 pm

I had a shrink think I had phycosis. I was only three. It's because I would pretend to be a fictional character and when asked who I was I said I was said character. I would change my mind about which character I was and freak out if people called me the character I was before because I though they too knew I was the new character. Not phycosis but lack of a "theroy of mind". The shrink acused my mom of being a refrigerator mother when she was not my biological one. She complained to the social worker about him and didn't have to see him anymore.


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Odin
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05 Jan 2010, 8:08 pm

Actually, Schizophrenia is thought by some to be the exact opposite of Autism neurologically.

The Imprinted Brain: How Genes Set the Balance of the Mind Between Autism and Psychosis.


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iquanyin
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09 Jan 2010, 12:27 pm

these are different conditions, not things that lead to other things.

where did this chart come from? it's not just wildly inaccurate, it's meaningless.

if you want to know about what makes psychopaths (the modern term is sociopath), read Hare. he's the world expert, and works with the FBI in that capacity, etc.

psychopathy is a specific condition, the key trait of which is lack of empathy/conscience.

schizophrenia is a different thing entirely, and empathy or lack thereof isn't a factor.

ADHD is not the same thing as manic depression (nor is it the same as mania alone), or the modern term "bi-polar" (swinging between the two poles of depression and elation).

and so on. also "psychopath" and "psychotic" are two different things. psychotic is to distinguish from "neurotic." in psychosis, one can experience such things as delusions, hallucinations, and in general is living in a world that's not much like what most people live in. functioning is profoundly disturbed, as are other things. people can have psychotic breaks yet be not psychotic before and after the breaks.

neurotic is, you could say, extreme unhappiness and rigid, unhelpful way of dealing with it (this is my definition here, i'm waaaay paraphrasing): phobias, ocd, and so on. the person is aware of whats' around them, they're not delusional or having odd sensory phenomena, they can (usually) work and so on.

sometimes one can be depressed and it can indeed intensify into psychotic depression, but it's not the norm and it's not moving from one type of disorder into a different one.

autism--as i'm understanding it--isn't a psychiatric illness at all, it's a neurological condition. (i may be off here, i don't yet know as much about autism), and since it's not an illness, there's no treatment for it. if an antistic person becomes, say, schizophrenic, it's not because they're autistic and in fact, is unrelated.

to my knowledge, sociopaths are in a class by themselves and are also basically untreatable, and indeed, it may turn out to be a neurological condition as well. one more myth to explode: most sociopaths are not killers, they're just assholed. think banksters and monsanto and the neighbor who screws your wife while you're in the hospital getting your appendix out.



AnnePande
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09 Jan 2010, 2:45 pm

PunkyKat wrote:
I had a shrink think I had phycosis. I was only three. It's because I would pretend to be a fictional character and when asked who I was I said I was said character.


Psychotic for that reason?? 8O 8O Then I should have been that too. I also did exactly that. :D
I just think it was a kind of early aspie obsession or something.



carltcwc
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09 Jan 2010, 3:25 pm

Did you just make up that chart?



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