Difference between flirting and just being nice

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Salonfilosoof
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04 Jan 2010, 7:56 am

Can anyone tell me how to spot whether a woman is flirting or just being nice? I really find it hard to distinguish between both.



sacrip
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04 Jan 2010, 9:29 am

The trouble is, a list of flirting behaviors for you to watch for; touching your arm when talking, twirling her hair around her finger, etc... is confounded when you encounter women who pretty much flirt with EVERYONE. If you can, try and see how she is with other people, if there's a real difference between you and others in her interactions. In any event, always be nice back, but don't be too quick to take the next step before you're sure. Those "Oh, gosh, I really like you, but..." conversations are always awkward.


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Salonfilosoof
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04 Jan 2010, 9:36 am

sacrip wrote:
The trouble is, a list of flirting behaviors for you to watch for; touching your arm when talking, twirling her hair around her finger, etc... is confounded when you encounter women who pretty much flirt with EVERYONE.


Good point... EVEN if she's flirting, that doesn't mean she's interested....

Women... Why must they be so illogical and complicated?!?



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04 Jan 2010, 10:23 am

Salonfilosoof wrote:
Humans... Why must they be so illogical and complicated?!?


There, fixed.


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Salonfilosoof
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04 Jan 2010, 10:26 am

Vyn wrote:
Salonfilosoof wrote:
Humans... Why must they be so illogical and complicated?!?


There, fixed.


From my perspective of an Aspie man, men (including intellectuals) are very simple and easy to understand beings. Women on the other hand make no sense half the time....



Asp-Z
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04 Jan 2010, 11:31 am

Salonfilosoof wrote:
Vyn wrote:
Salonfilosoof wrote:
Humans... Why must they be so illogical and complicated?!?


There, fixed.


From my perspective of an Aspie man, men (including intellectuals) are very simple and easy to understand beings. Women on the other hand make no sense half the time....


Not to be sexist, but it is generally known that men can't understand women, even NTs.

About the flirting thing, it's complicated because it could be anything, and it's usually a combination of eye contact, body language, tone of voice, and probably more too, so it's hard to really tell you how to work it out I'm afraid...



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04 Jan 2010, 11:47 am

That I am still trying to find out. If it's in a professional setting, assume it's being nice.


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billsmithglendale
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04 Jan 2010, 12:10 pm

sacrip wrote:
The trouble is, a list of flirting behaviors for you to watch for; touching your arm when talking, twirling her hair around her finger, etc... is confounded when you encounter women who pretty much flirt with EVERYONE. If you can, try and see how she is with other people, if there's a real difference between you and others in her interactions. In any event, always be nice back, but don't be too quick to take the next step before you're sure. Those "Oh, gosh, I really like you, but..." conversations are always awkward.


So true -- so let's make a key distinction here.

Universal/Constant Flirts do so because of neurotic afflictions they have, usually self-esteem or self-valuation type issues tied to lack of affection in childhood from parents or peers. These people will usually seek to be the center of attention, everyone's friend, the social butterfly. This isn't to say that all social butterflies have these issues (some people are just natural extroverts), but these constant flirts also blend in with them. As speculated above, their flirts usually (99% of the time) mean nothing. You'll notice that they flirt with everyone, if you step back and take your ego out of it.

There is an alternate version of this, the sexual Flirt. Think of the girl Kevin Spacey was after in the movie "American Beauty" -- all talk and no action. This person (usually female) will constantly make sexually flirty or provocative comments, but at the end of the day, she is no more sincere about her intentions than the person above, and if anything, is masking a general lack of sexual experience. The motives seem to be that in many cases, these people in fact are sexually stymied or ret*d -- some event happened in their past that makes them averse to sex, yet they see the power in the idea of sex and sexual knowledge, and seek to use that power to boost their image.

I've run into both of the above, and they are tricky folks. They can trick you even if you are watching out for them, for their social skills are very strong, as is their social network (and subsequent reputation). In almost all cases, they are a waste of time, though I have had the misfortune to actually have some of these people interested in me, usually with disastrous results. Interestingly, the people they tend to gravitate to the most as far as lovers are the people who seem the most unattainable. Your best bet is to keep your distance, and don't invest much or any emotional attention in these people, other than as a good source of introductions to other people.

Now, back to normal people -- Yes, women can and do send mixed signals, often unintentionally. Sometimes the signals they are sending are quite clear in girl/woman language, but are misinterpreted on the guy side. NT guys make this mistake all the time, so imagine the extra degree of difficulty with AS.

Good rules of thumb that distinguish flirting vs. just being nice (and please take these as a group of behaviors, instead of just focusing on one and thinking it means something):

1. She calls you even when she doesn't have to for work or school, or she sees you voluntarily outside of those confines.

2. She often makes inquiries about you and your personal life, and remembers things about you in detail that many other folks forget.

3. She compliments you often, especially your clothes or physique (e.g. "Gosh, you sure are tall" -- I get this one a lot)

4. Very important -- she initiates touch. Let her do this first, and let her do it often before you ever try to initiate it, as it is important to respect her space and body. Once she starts touching you, it's a good sign (unless she's a nurse, doctor, or someone else who touches strangers routinely in her daily life) that she is interested.

And in the end, someone can do all of the above, and still just want to be friends. That's life -- you pays your money and you takes your chances (bad grammar intentional here for colloquial purposes). Some people (like the constant flirts I mentioned above) just don't really know what they want, or are torn between the boyfriend they have, and the other options out there. That's humanity, as someone else said. You don't make an omelet without breaking some eggs, so if you want to get laid, get a GF, find a wife, you are going to have to navigate the above. Considering how hard other things are in life, this is just yet another challenge to learn, break through, and master.



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04 Jan 2010, 12:36 pm

I can only tell with guys if they're being really sleazy. Otherwise, the whole time I'm thinking, "do you really think I'm pretty, or are you actually enjoying this conversation about crackers?"


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Salonfilosoof
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04 Jan 2010, 12:51 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
Not to be sexist, but it is generally known that men can't understand women, even NTs.


True. It's just even more difficult for Aspie men....

Asp-Z wrote:
About the flirting thing, it's complicated because it could be anything, and it's usually a combination of eye contact, body language, tone of voice, and probably more too, so it's hard to really tell you how to work it out I'm afraid...


I know from experience.

billsmithglendale wrote:
1. She calls you even when she doesn't have to for work or school, or she sees you voluntarily outside of those confines.


During the 3 months I've worked there, she came several times to my office to chat about random small talk for 5 to 10 minutes usually when I was sitting as my desk alone. I'm not used to that sort of attention from women.

billsmithglendale wrote:
2. She often makes inquiries about you and your personal life, and remembers things about you in detail that many other folks forget.


I never really paid any attention to that, I must say.

billsmithglendale wrote:
3. She compliments you often, especially your clothes or physique (e.g. "Gosh, you sure are tall" -- I get this one a lot)


One of the times she came to my office was when they had just uploaded the pictures of the new employees two months ago. I told her I did not quite like my photograph and she said I had no reason to complain. Then she showed me a bunch of other photographs from other colleages to prove her point.

That's the only "compliment" I remember and I remember it because the situation felt pretty weird. For 5 minutes or so we were browsing photographs of coworkers.

billsmithglendale wrote:
4. Very important -- she initiates touch. Let her do this first, and let her do it often before you ever try to initiate it, as it is important to respect her space and body. Once she starts touching you, it's a good sign (unless she's a nurse, doctor, or someone else who touches strangers routinely in her daily life) that she is interested.


I thought people only get touchy when they're already convinced the other person is interested :?:



billsmithglendale
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04 Jan 2010, 1:16 pm

Salonfilosoof wrote:

billsmithglendale wrote:
1. She calls you even when she doesn't have to for work or school, or she sees you voluntarily outside of those confines.


During the 3 months I've worked there, she came several times to my office to chat about random small talk for 5 to 10 minutes usually when I was sitting as my desk alone. I'm not used to that sort of attention from women.

billsmithglendale wrote:
2. She often makes inquiries about you and your personal life, and remembers things about you in detail that many other folks forget.


I never really paid any attention to that, I must say.

billsmithglendale wrote:
3. She compliments you often, especially your clothes or physique (e.g. "Gosh, you sure are tall" -- I get this one a lot)


One of the times she came to my office was when they had just uploaded the pictures of the new employees two months ago. I told her I did not quite like my photograph and she said I had no reason to complain. Then she showed me a bunch of other photographs from other colleages to prove her point.

That's the only "compliment" I remember and I remember it because the situation felt pretty weird. For 5 minutes or so we were browsing photographs of coworkers.

billsmithglendale wrote:
4. Very important -- she initiates touch. Let her do this first, and let her do it often before you ever try to initiate it, as it is important to respect her space and body. Once she starts touching you, it's a good sign (unless she's a nurse, doctor, or someone else who touches strangers routinely in her daily life) that she is interested.


I thought people only get touchy when they're already convinced the other person is interested :?:


1. See -- so far, she's only seeing you at work. My encounters with constant flirt folks at work tended to resemble yours -- they would drop in for 15 min or more of my time at work (sometimes up to an hour!), when they were making their social rounds, but nothing outside of work. I wouldn't at this point read too much into her stopping by and chatting you up, not without a big escalation of how you spend your time together (lunch, time outside work, etc.) All of us tend to want to do things to make the time fly at work, and constant flirts do what they do best to kill the time -- flirt!

2. It's a biggie, so watch for it. Someone who likes you will want to know, and remember, everything about you. Those who don't, don't care.

3. A positive sign, but a constant flirt will pretty much say anything to win social and personal approval in the moment to score a social "victory". You become one more social conquest, another node in their social web. You are a cog in their social machine. It's not a bad place to be, but don't make it more than it is.

4. Nope -- sometimes we just can't help our hands, and women are just as guilty of that. It's also a way of starting to signal to you (but read the signals carefully) that it might be ok for you to touch her (in a polite way and place, don't grope her).

And these signals can be mixed and deceptive -- I had a Constant Flirt who I detected from the start, yet was sucked in anyways (she happened to look exactly like one of my fetishes) by her charm. She used to punch me in the shoulder like a guy or a pal, but when I did a less firm, more affectionate version, I was told to back off. She also refused to go to lunch alone with me, and pretty much made it clear she was just at work to make friends and social contacts, and that it was all in my head. True? Maybe not, but at least in my case, it was made clear I was not a candidate.

In your case, based on the other thread, there is still a chance this woman is slowly deciding if you are worth it, and she does seem initially interested -- take it slow and decide for yourself if you really want it to happen, if there is a chance.



Juan
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04 Jan 2010, 1:25 pm

Salonfilosoof wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to spot whether a woman is flirting or just being nice? I really find it hard to distinguish between both.


I don't know.
And I want to ask the same question: how do I know if a man is flirting or just being nice?

Although it is not bothering me too much.

As I can only have feelings of some particular man, so I really don't care much of if a man is flirting.
But I do really care if the man I like is flirting or just being nice.



billsmithglendale
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04 Jan 2010, 1:40 pm

Juan wrote:
Salonfilosoof wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to spot whether a woman is flirting or just being nice? I really find it hard to distinguish between both.


I don't know.
And I want to ask the same question: how do I know if a man is flirting or just being nice?

Although it is not bothering me too much.

As I can only have feelings of some particular man, so I really don't care much of if a man is flirting.
But I do really care if the man I like is flirting or just being nice.


Well, you just pretty much said you don't care about the answer :P , but here goes:

If a guy is talking to you all of the time, always in your business, and always waaay too happy to see you (or always looking at you when you are in eyeshot, even if you aren't talking to him), he likes you. Especially if he's nervous around you.

If he's way too casual, doesn't seem to care what you think and completely calm around you, he probably just likes you as a friend.



Juan
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04 Jan 2010, 2:35 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:
Juan wrote:
Salonfilosoof wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to spot whether a woman is flirting or just being nice? I really find it hard to distinguish between both.


I don't know.
And I want to ask the same question: how do I know if a man is flirting or just being nice?

Although it is not bothering me too much.

As I can only have feelings of some particular man, so I really don't care much of if a man is flirting.
But I do really care if the man I like is flirting or just being nice.


Well, you just pretty much said you don't care about the answer :P , but here goes:

If a guy is talking to you all of the time, always in your business, and always waaay too happy to see you (or always looking at you when you are in eyeshot, even if you aren't talking to him), he likes you. Especially if he's nervous around you.

If he's way too casual, doesn't seem to care what you think and completely calm around you, he probably just likes you as a friend.


Thank you very much!

I think it's a good suggestion for me.

But it seems it's better this person is around you.
If he is far away from you, how do you know that?



billsmithglendale
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04 Jan 2010, 4:43 pm

Juan wrote:
billsmithglendale wrote:
Juan wrote:
Salonfilosoof wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to spot whether a woman is flirting or just being nice? I really find it hard to distinguish between both.


I don't know.
And I want to ask the same question: how do I know if a man is flirting or just being nice?

Although it is not bothering me too much.

As I can only have feelings of some particular man, so I really don't care much of if a man is flirting.
But I do really care if the man I like is flirting or just being nice.


Well, you just pretty much said you don't care about the answer :P , but here goes:

If a guy is talking to you all of the time, always in your business, and always waaay too happy to see you (or always looking at you when you are in eyeshot, even if you aren't talking to him), he likes you. Especially if he's nervous around you.

If he's way too casual, doesn't seem to care what you think and completely calm around you, he probably just likes you as a friend.


Thank you very much!

I think it's a good suggestion for me.

But it seems it's better this person is around you.
If he is far away from you, how do you know that?


If he's far away from you, well, how do you know anything about him? Do you mean he's far away like across the room, across the building, or across the country?

Also, just curious -- I notice you have a male name. If you're asking on behalf of yourself (perhaps you're gay), I believe gay men have slightly different rules on flirting and what things mean. It is probably similar, but not exactly the same (easier in some ways, from what I've heard and seen).



Juan
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04 Jan 2010, 6:06 pm

billsmithglendale wrote:

If he's far away from you, well, how do you know anything about him? Do you mean he's far away like across the room, across the building, or across the country?

Also, just curious -- I notice you have a male name. If you're asking on behalf of yourself (perhaps you're gay), I believe gay men have slightly different rules on flirting and what things mean. It is probably similar, but not exactly the same (easier in some ways, from what I've heard and seen).


No, no, no, no.
It's spanish name for male.
But I'm from China.
Juan is a female's name in China which means beautiful.

And for that questio, I just asked.
Right now I don't have that kind of person try to flirt or be kind to me.