I thought people said Jesus changed rulesabout killing kids?

Page 1 of 3 [ 39 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

ValMikeSmith
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2008
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 977
Location: Stranger in a strange land

12 Jan 2010, 8:44 am

Maybe start with a Children's bible.

What are the 10 commandments? Something like:
1.I'm God.
2.Don't be Owned by any thing else like dumb statues.
3.Don't disrespect the name of God with bad words.
4.Chill out once a week and look at good stuff and remember me.
5.Respect your parents.
6.Don't Steal
7.Don't Kill People ***
8.Don't Tell Lies about people, that's the devil's job.
9.Don't Do It with someone else's wife.
10.Don't wish for things that aren't yours, or you might get them by being bad.

What was the first and second law?
1.Don't eat the "apple" or you'll learn good and bad things and then die.
Then Adam and Eve ate the apple and knew it was bad,
and that they were bad, and that they should not be seen,
they should hide...so Adam said:
2.they should NOT BE NAKED.

Jesus said the laws aren't good for you, they punish you.
He said A good law is Love God and Your Neighbor like your self.
It is a good law that says how to be good, not how to get punished.
If people only think about that one,
they don't think about breaking commandments.

Love isn't something that you can just obey or else get punished,
but if you do love god and care about other people as much as your self,
its a sign you are doing good.

God made the world a garden with free food growing on trees.
There was gold in the garden but no need for money.
The bad things in the world are mostly made by people and the devil.



leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

12 Jan 2010, 3:07 pm

ValMikeSmith wrote:
Jesus said the laws aren't good for you, they punish you.


Where did the one you are calling "Jesus" say that?


_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================


iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

12 Jan 2010, 4:48 pm

TheOddGoat wrote:
From Mark 7:

"5So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with 'unclean' hands?"

6He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.' 8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

9And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 11But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that." "

Even Jesus is critical of parents who don't kill their unruly children, why don't christians kill their disrespectful children now?



This is not advocating the execution of disobedient children, but rather providing an illustration of how these people honored God with their lips but their hearts are far from Him. Such as dishonoring parents was once a capital crime, indeed, though it had become null in itself over the years and also the Romans forbid executions without permission from the prefect/praetor/governor. But the point is that, in opposition to giving honor to parents, that these particular people, those who pretend to honor God, were using the "Corban" rule (Corban means that something is devoted/set aside for God only) as a way to deny helping parents in need and such. Basically, that they were claiming to honor God while dishonoring their parents. In general terms they were searching for loopholes.



DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,683
Location: Northern California

12 Jan 2010, 5:06 pm

KazigluBey wrote:
TheOddGoat wrote:
Even Jesus is critical of parents who don't kill their unruly children, why don't christians kill their disrespectful children now?


No he isn't; the reference to old Scripture had nothing to do with with whether one should or should not put their kids to death. Like his disciples, Jesus might look at you and ask you why you are so obtuse (v18) for your poor attempt at reading. If you'll note, the text actually does not stop at verse 13, as you seem to have found necessary. In fact, it continues on all the way through verse 23. Additionally, you started at verse 5 instead of the first verse, which sets the tone of the entire story by stating clearly the issue the Pharisees brought to Jesus.

The Pharisees and other teachers of the law were concerned about why the disciples didn't wash their hands as they did and questioned Jesus on this. For them, washing hands wasn't done so much for hygiene, but instead for ceremonial purposes (as noted in the text you failed to cite). Jesus, went on to state, that which is unclean comes from the inside and goes out, not the other way around (also missing from the OP). Verses 17-19 are very clear about this as it notes that Jesus' disciples questioned him about his words and he asked them if they were dull and proceeded to talk about where uncleanliness comes from and says nothing about killing one's children.


Thank you for clarifying that, even if the rest of the debate (first page, at least) is choosing to ignore it.

The other point is that Jesus is talking about GROWN UP CHILDREN being disrespectful to their parents. He has always made it clear, in the Bible, that young children who are still growing up are not held responsible.

No wonder so many here think the Bible is full of horrors. You are happy to take each sentence on its own, first impression, without looking at less obvious (to you) meanings or context. The Bible cannot be read that way. It wasn't meant to be.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


Last edited by DW_a_mom on 12 Jan 2010, 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

12 Jan 2010, 5:08 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
He has always made it clear, in the Bible, that CHILDREN who are still growing up are not held responsible.


Where is that written?


_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================


DW_a_mom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,683
Location: Northern California

12 Jan 2010, 5:10 pm

leejosepho wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
He has always made it clear, in the Bible, that CHILDREN who are still growing up are not held responsible.


Where is that written?


Word for word? Nowhere. By implication? Everywhere. When Jesus discusses young children it is for their innocence.


_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).


leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

12 Jan 2010, 5:20 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Word for word? Nowhere. By implication? Everywhere.


I call that extrapolation, but I am not meaning to take you or anyone to task. I grew up in an "age of accountability" (sanctification) setting that ultimately produced a lot of self-will-run-riots.


_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================


ValMikeSmith
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2008
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 977
Location: Stranger in a strange land

15 Jan 2010, 5:38 am

I do not memorize chapters and verses very well but these are bible answers,
you can google them to find where.

"Where there is no law , there is no transgression ( = law broken)."

and for another question

"Let the children come to me, for theirs is the kingdom of God"
"Unless you become like little children, you cannot see the kingdom of God"



Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

15 Jan 2010, 5:55 am

ValMikeSmith wrote:
I do not memorize chapters and verses very well but these are bible answers,
you can google them to find where.

"Where there is no law , there is no transgression ( = law broken)."

and for another question

"Let the children come to me, for theirs is the kingdom of God"
"Unless you become like little children, you cannot see the kingdom of God"


In other words, docile, gullible, ignorant and about 3 feet tall.



ValMikeSmith
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 May 2008
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 977
Location: Stranger in a strange land

15 Jan 2010, 6:15 am

Sand wrote:
ValMikeSmith wrote:
I do not memorize chapters and verses very well but these are bible answers,
you can google them to find where.

"Where there is no law , there is no transgression ( = law broken)."

and for another question

"Let the children come to me, for theirs is the kingdom of God"
"Unless you become like little children, you cannot see the kingdom of God"


In other words, docile, gullible, ignorant and about 3 feet tall.

How about curious, openminded, fast-learning, full of vitality, playful,
singing happy songs,
haven't yet seen the world as cruel and not turned bitter and jaded.

The media hasn't told a happy story in years. "No news is good news."



Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

15 Jan 2010, 6:59 am

ValMikeSmith wrote:
Sand wrote:
ValMikeSmith wrote:
I do not memorize chapters and verses very well but these are bible answers,
you can google them to find where.

"Where there is no law , there is no transgression ( = law broken)."

and for another question

"Let the children come to me, for theirs is the kingdom of God"
"Unless you become like little children, you cannot see the kingdom of God"


In other words, docile, gullible, ignorant and about 3 feet tall.

How about curious, openminded, fast-learning, full of vitality, playful,
singing happy songs,
haven't yet seen the world as cruel and not turned bitter and jaded.

The media hasn't told a happy story in years. "No news is good news."


Some children are bright and kind and cheerful and an awful lot more are mean and selfish and stupid and cruel. There are all kinds. Children, surprisingly are just like other kinds of people. If you don't know this you haven't met many children..



iamtre
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 49
Location: New Jersey....near Philadelphia

15 Jan 2010, 11:55 am

I am seeing your frustration lee. Jesus was not Christian and did not actually teach christianity. He simply taught one of the many veiwpoints of judiasm at the time. Jews unlike christians allow for difference of interpretation.
There is a story in the bible i believe it was Elijah who saved a child from drowning. (first case of CPR)
Walking down the road a little more he was taunted by a few children. G-d sent a bear to kill all of the kids in that village. That story really makes me think.



leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

15 Jan 2010, 3:00 pm

iamtre wrote:
I am seeing your frustration lee. Jesus was not Christian and did not actually teach christianity. He simply taught one of the many veiwpoints of judiasm at the time. Jews unlike christians allow for difference of interpretation.
There is a story in the bible i believe it was Elijah who saved a child from drowning. (first case of CPR)
Walking down the road a little more he was taunted by a few children. G-d sent a bear to kill all of the kids in that village. That story really makes me think.


I do not recall ever before hearing that story, but yes, it definitely could cause one to ponder!

I certainly do not advocate the killing of disobedient children, but neither can I abide the idea of children not being held accountable.


_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================


KazigluBey
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

User avatar

Joined: 3 Jan 2009
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 405

15 Jan 2010, 8:13 pm

iamtre wrote:
I am seeing your frustration lee. Jesus was not Christian and did not actually teach christianity. He simply taught one of the many veiwpoints of judiasm at the time. Jews unlike christians allow for difference of interpretation.
There is a story in the bible i believe it was Elijah who saved a child from drowning. (first case of CPR)
Walking down the road a little more he was taunted by a few children. G-d sent a bear to kill all of the kids in that village. That story really makes me think.


That's not what the text says; it says that Elijah cursed them (or called a curse--depending on translation) in the name of the Lord and then goes on to state two bears killed the taunters. It is inferred that God sent the bears, but does not specifically state so.



Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

15 Jan 2010, 8:35 pm

KazigluBey wrote:
iamtre wrote:
I am seeing your frustration lee. Jesus was not Christian and did not actually teach christianity. He simply taught one of the many veiwpoints of judiasm at the time. Jews unlike christians allow for difference of interpretation.
There is a story in the bible i believe it was Elijah who saved a child from drowning. (first case of CPR)
Walking down the road a little more he was taunted by a few children. G-d sent a bear to kill all of the kids in that village. That story really makes me think.


That's not what the text says; it says that Elijah cursed them (or called a curse--depending on translation) in the name of the Lord and then goes on to state two bears killed the taunters. It is inferred that God sent the bears, but does not specifically state so.


That the bears found wicked children delicious is, of course, quite outside of the Biblical reference to the children's misbehavior. Why is there no reference to what eagles or monkeys or salmon were eating that day without any religious instruction.



leejosepho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

15 Jan 2010, 10:34 pm

KazigluBey wrote:
... the text says ... Elijah cursed them (or called a curse--depending on translation) ...


Nice clarification.

Sand wrote:
That the bears found wicked children delicious ...


Who said they did?

Sand wrote:
... what eagles or monkeys or salmon were eating that day without any religious instruction.


Who said they had none?


_________________
I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.
==================================