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auntblabby
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22 Feb 2010, 12:22 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Obama has this obsession with bipartisanship - clearly he doesn't think elections mean anything, Republicans must always rule even when they lose. The media is also obsessed with it, or at least CNN is. They claim that people in the US are mad at the "partisanship". What nonsense. They just want things to be done.

Despite being a sellout who is trying to force a Republican health care plan (Romneycare) on the country, Republicans have branded Obama a Nazi, a Communist, and many of the Republican base have suggested that he should be killed. He turns around and keeps saying that they need to help him make policy or else no policy will be made.


george wallace [whatever else you may think of him] once said "there's not a dollar's worth of difference between the democrats and the republicans." i'd say he was half-right- at the top the money is much more alike than different, as big money interests butter whichever side of its bread as is prudent for them. it is at the bottom where there are real differences between the parties - the dems have at their base:

1] compassionate liberals of all stripes who believe society can be improved via good government-
2] working-class folk of mixed quality- some cannot be bothered to leave their sports game and malt liquor long enough to cast a ballot to save their lives, some who can be bled-off by repub red herrings such as gays, race, et al- and some that are usefully active in pushing for progressive social change-
3] folks with libertarian aims who see the folly of diluting a powerful established party vote for a marginal party vote [choosing the lesser of 2 evils], and who fear the repub's nasty habit of invading their privacy-
4] many contentious minority groups, racial and sexual

the repubs have as their base:
1]violent, sometimes incoherent tea-party bully mobs who are unaware they are just being used as a tool in the repub black bag of dirty tricks-
2] passionate social-darwinists of varying income levels, who have selfishness and nimby-ism in common, individualists run rampant, a few libertarian-ish types, ayn rand-types who see "average schlubs" as nothing but parasites-
3] religious-right fanatics who are pushing the party to support theocracy [american taliban, if you will], and are biding their time in the party until they see their chance-
4] minorities who have climbed the ladder of success and seem unwilling to acknowledge those climbing up behind them [clarence thomas, anyone?], a few who seem embarrassed by their race and think "acting the part" will endear them to repub elites who barely conceal their contempt for them [michael steele versus limbaugh].

so as an average schlub, all i can say is vote for the party which at least pays lip-service to representing the interests of average schlubs, which means if you are without healthcare, the dems at least are TRYING to enact SOMETHING that would extend coverage and curb insurance company misbehavior [even if it is somewhat clumsy and mediocre], whereas all the congressional repubs want to do is indemnify careless medical providers for their errors and ERs for dumping the indigent, neither of which is immediately helpful to those of us who can't afford health coverage.

"the m[e]n behind the curtain" really run things, and it is all that us mere mortals can do to choose among the lesser of 2 evils. that is why there never has been a successful third-party presidency, it is just too convenient to play 2 against the middle, and too many are afraid of losing a vote to the evil other party [pick one] to risk supporting a 3rd-party fella.
_____________________________________________________________________
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
bertrand russell- british author, mathematician and philosopher (1872-1970)



xenon13
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22 Feb 2010, 12:59 pm

As soon as Obama gave his "can we all get along" speech about "there is no red America, there is no blue America" in 2004 and he was hailed as some great revelation, it was clear where he was going, at least to me. For one thing, his talk along these lines is what made him acceptable to be president in the future. Unfortunately, this meant also that he would not be any good.

It has been established that a real populist on the Democratic side would be counted out by the media before the game has even started. There is a vetting process far more effective than that of the Iranian Guardian Council in weeding out anyone who might be trouble for the powers that be. One reason I think a lot of people went along with Obama was because they thought he was the best possible under the constrained circumstances that existed, and that people are very aware of that fact.

Interestingly enough, wooden Al Gore, who was behind George W. Bush all through 2000, who had impeccable DLC and pro-corporate and pro-powers that be bona fides, took a populist line at the Democratic Convention and kept at it through the rest of the campaign. All of a sudden his poll numbers shot up and despite his other campaigning deficiencies, that someone actually started speaking of "the people vs the powerful" this gave his candidacy a chance and won him the popular vote. Naturally, the media failed to recognise this and credited Joe Lieberman with his improved showing, a total and utter lie but typical of the media.



auntblabby
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22 Feb 2010, 1:40 pm

xenon13 wrote:
wooden Al Gore.


Al Gore, where are you? please come back and regrow your beard! seriously, what would it take to break the demopublican stranglehold on american politics?
i would've voted for nader if it wouldn't have cost gore the vote. so i voted for gore instead. sigh. see what it got us all. the futility of it all.



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22 Feb 2010, 2:58 pm

SirLogiC wrote:
I am Australian so I don't really know the exact state of politics in the US but this is something I have observed a fair bit- the Barack Obama bashing, hate or w/e you want to call it.

[snip]


This is virtually no different from the 'left's' endless and seriously hateful bashing of every Republican President that we've had ever since Nixon.

Aside from personal viewpoints and political tactics that I strongly disagree with, BHO cannot seem to utter a coherent sentence without first reading it as pre-written text on a teleprompter (unlike GWB), thus the 'empty suit' thing, and his first in line to succeed him (Vice-President Joe Biden) is a walking gaff-factory.

:roll:

November of 2012 cannot come soon enough.

Sigh....

Mike



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22 Feb 2010, 3:15 pm

Also, I believe that BHO mainly chose Rahm Emmanuel as his COS because they were both from Chicago (Emmanuel was a USHouse representative) and that they both came of political 'age' at about the same time in the same Chicago Political Machine™ - where it is unabashed, no holds barred, win-at-all-costs thug politics of the rawest sort.

(I should know these things, I live only three hours' drive time from Chicago and all of the city's news/talk radio voices come in loud and clear here in NE Wisconsin.)

Remember that BHO won all of his prior elections by having his campaign 'clear the playing field' of all of his opponents - for a seat in the Illinois state legislature, they were all literally removed from the ballot and for his USSenate seat, they strong-armed another state into opening legally sealed records from his Republican opponent's divorce and used all of the dirt in it against him, ultimately causing him to drop out of the race.

:evil:

Mike



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22 Feb 2010, 3:54 pm

Wisguy wrote:
This is virtually no different from the 'left's' endless and seriously hateful bashing of every Republican President that we've had ever since Nixon.

The criticism of Obama has gone somewhat farther than the criticism of Bush I and II ever did, and besides that more of the Obama bashing is completely unfounded- I'm referring here to the secret Muslim claims, the birther movement, etc. People called Bush II a chickenhawk because he was a draft dodger in Vietnam but was more than willing to put our troops in danger in Iraq in Afghanistan. These are very different criticisms.

Quote:
Aside from personal viewpoints and political tactics that I strongly disagree with, BHO cannot seem to utter a coherent sentence without first reading it as pre-written text on a teleprompter (unlike GWB), thus the 'empty suit' thing, and his first in line to succeed him (Vice-President Joe Biden) is a walking gaff-factory.

Obama was a college professor, I'm sure he is quite able to speak with or without a teleprompter. And don't pretend like the teleprompter is a new invention; politicians from both parties have been using it for ages.

To the rest, just wow. You seem to be claiming that GWB is more capable of forming a coherent sentence than Obama. That's just plain false; Bush couldn't form a complete sentence with or without a teleprompter. And if you want to talk gaffs, instead of looking at Biden let's look at Palin or Dan Quayle.

I mean, I don't even like Obama, but your claims about him (especially as compared to Bush) are just ridiculous.


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22 Feb 2010, 5:07 pm

Gore showed more character growing that beard than he did for most of his time in office. I think that it spoke well of him that he went through with "the people versus the powerful" in the final weeks of his campaign. There's no doubt that this is what drew him even and ahead of Bush. The DLC mob was of course outraged and Lieberman claimed that this cost him the election, that it was his naming the great Lieberman as VP that increased his fortunes. Remember that the media said essentially that Lieberman was chosen because he criticised Clinton over the Lewinsky affair - as if that motivated people to vote for Gore or not vote for Gore. Were people clamouring for a school marm to be Vice-President waving his finger in disapproval of Clinton's sexual practices?



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23 Feb 2010, 2:20 am

Wisguy wrote:
SirLogiC wrote:
I am Australian so I don't really know the exact state of politics in the US but this is something I have observed a fair bit- the Barack Obama bashing, hate or w/e you want to call it.

[snip]


This is virtually no different from the 'left's' endless and seriously hateful bashing of every Republican President that we've had ever since Nixon.

Aside from personal viewpoints and political tactics that I strongly disagree with, BHO cannot seem to utter a coherent sentence without first reading it as pre-written text on a teleprompter (unlike GWB), thus the 'empty suit' thing, and his first in line to succeed him (Vice-President Joe Biden) is a walking gaff-factory.

:roll:

November of 2012 cannot come soon enough.

Sigh....

Mike


as though republican admins did absolutely no wrong, and that democratic admins did nothing right. what rot.
go ahead and vote repub, but remember there will be at least one vote cancelling-out yours.
have a nice day:+)



auntblabby
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23 Feb 2010, 3:05 am

SirLogiC wrote:
I am Australian so I don't really know the exact state of politics in the US but this is something I have observed a fair bit- the Barack Obama bashing, hate or w/e you want to call it.

From what I gather a lot of people are unhappy with the progress he has made however it seems like those people are ignorant that he has tried.

Things like the Guantanamo Bay facility. I think I read he tried to shut it down but there is enough people wanting it to stay that it is making it really complicated.

He can't stop the war in Iraq because there are enough people in the US that think it is just and that the US should be there.

He has tried to introduce a national healthcare system but can't because some people just can't see how free healthcare for the poor can benefit anyone, or that they will lose health benefits (when they can keep their private healthcare anyway). Talk of the cost seems moot to me when the Iraq war is sucking in more money than many countries GNP.

It just seems like a lot of the "good" things he is trying to do he can't because of politics getting in the way. US politics just seems so messed up to me.

So am I seeing this right or are my details wrong? What are your thoughts on this situation?


exactly right, mate. it often takes a pair of dispassionate outsider eyeballs to see america's problems in the proper perspective. being an observer of australian politics, i gather it is not as brain-dead as the american variety.
there are millions of americans who are thoroughly wearied of the political culture battles in this country, and wish they could live in other more civilized lands such as australia, NZ, canada, europe, et al- but because of the strict immigration laws all over, we are stuck here in this miasma of contention. our nation is full to the brim of folk burning with intensity but totally lacking in good will towards anybody who dares to be different from them in philosophy and lifestyle. it seems folk stateside are no longer content to agree to disagree but are attacking one another now over the most petty things. common decency has evaporated in a blast furnace of intolerance and mutual hatred. it is suffocating to the soul and is leading inexorably to an abyss for any kind of hope that this country will survive for much longer, in any decent shape. things cannot keep going on the way they are and end well. a house divided upon itself cannot stand.
pray for us, please- and be glad you are where you are.