Page 1 of 9 [ 129 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next


What was Jesus' sexual orientation?
Heterosexual 25%  25%  [ 22 ]
Bisexual 9%  9%  [ 8 ]
Homosexual 14%  14%  [ 12 ]
Asexual 31%  31%  [ 27 ]
Auto-sexual (masturbation only) 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Bestiality 11%  11%  [ 10 ]
Other (specify 7%  7%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 87

pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

08 Mar 2010, 11:59 am

Well?

There has been considerable speculation that Jesus was gay. For example:

http://www.spiritrestoration.org/Church ... us-Gay.htm

A missing chunk of Mark's gospel, which reads:

Quote:
"And the youth, looking upon him (Jesus), loved him and beseeched that he might remain with him. And going out of the tomb, they went into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days, Jesus instructed him and, at evening, the youth came to him wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of God".


As far as I can tell, there is nothing in the Bible to suggest that Jesus had sexual relations with women.

In fact, quite the opposite:

Quote:
Anyone who looks at a woman and wants to possess her is guilty of committing adultery with her in his heart.


As far as we know, Jesus never kissed a girl, but he did kiss Judas Iscariot.

Jesus never married, which would have been unusual for a Jewish boy at the time.

He may have been influenced by Greek culture, where homosexuality among men was normal.



mgran
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 May 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,864

08 Mar 2010, 12:30 pm

Missing chunk of Mark's gospel! I'm sorry, what leads you to believe that it was originally in there in the first place? Could you provide the earliest known appearance of this text?

The reference to Jesus discussing "looking to lust" is taken out of context. He is discussing the fact that sin is not just what we do, but what we feel, in other words that our secret life can be wrong with God. In Hebrew, as in many other languages, the male pronoun is used to refer to both males and females, and it is likely that He referred to men lusting after women, rather than women lusting after men, since men in that society got away with a lot more than women did. It had nothing to do with His sexuality.

Also, if there had been a shadow of a sign that Jesus was homosexual, He would have been stoned to death. When He was tried before the Sanhedrin the court didn't even hint at such a juicy capital offence. They accused Him of blasphemy, not sodomy. (Remember that is one thing that would certainly have got a Jewish man killed in those days.)

This is simply wishful thinking.



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

08 Mar 2010, 2:16 pm

Leviticus predates Jesus by several hundred years.

At the time of Jesus, were they still stoning sodomites to death? Or, were attitudes toward queers more permissive, possibly due to the Greek influence?

In various of his letters, Paul criticizes Christians who practise homosexuality, but there isn't any record of any of them being executed as a result.



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

08 Mar 2010, 3:23 pm

Here is something on the "Secret Gospel of Mark":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Gospel_of_Mark

It might have been a forgery, so take it with a grain of salt.

It is clear that Paul was asexual. He was much too much of a workaholic, and didn't much care for Christians having a good time (including especially a sexual good time).

The earliest Gospel was written more than a generation after Jesus had been crucified, so it is difficult for us to infer much into Jesus' sexuality. Some people probably believe in all earnestness that he never even had an erection.

At least Jesus is portrayed as being tolerant of people's sexuality. For example, in John 4, Jesus meets a woman who has been married 5 times, and who is presently living with a man who is not really her husband. He doesn't rebuke her at all (as Paul probably would have), but instead the woman leads the townspeople in being excited about Jesus being the Saviour of the world.

And, Jesus even saves the life of a woman who is about to be executed for adultery.



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

08 Mar 2010, 4:02 pm

mgran wrote:
In Hebrew, as in many other languages, the male pronoun is used to refer to both males and females, and it is likely that He referred to men lusting after women, rather than women lusting after men, since men in that society got away with a lot more than women did. It had nothing to do with His sexuality.



The Gospel of Mark was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew. Greek is in the Indo-European language family, and males and females have different pronouns.

Jesus probably spoke either Greek or Aramaic.



techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,148
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi

08 Mar 2010, 7:51 pm

pandabear wrote:
It is clear that Paul was asexual. He was much too much of a workaholic, and didn't much care for Christians having a good time (including especially a sexual good time).

Actually Paul was one of the lead people scourging and pounding on Christians, thought that they were filth, and really he was doing that the way many people might treat wackos of a new cult. You could in that sense consider him a bit of a redneck of his time, likely quite hetero unless his aggressive impulses were more of a cerebral nature.

Of course he was riding along, was struck blind for a few days, heard a voice, and the rest is quite a healthy stretch of the New Testament.


Jesus on the other hand - to go on the hypothesis that he both a) existed and b) was who he says he was (or at least believed it himself), I'd just say that the was on a very intense life long mission - when someone's existence is that driven to where they would not engage their sexuality in their belief that it would slow them down or take them off mark; you really can't make a clinical diagnosis, it says nothing about orientation and simply that their drive to resolve larger existential issues almost muted their sexuality in contrast.


_________________
“Love takes off the masks that we fear we cannot live without and know we cannot live within. I use the word "love" here not merely in the personal sense but as a state of being, or a state of grace - not in the infantile American sense of being made happy but in the tough and universal sense of quest and daring and growth.” - James Baldwin


Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

08 Mar 2010, 9:55 pm

pandabear wrote:
The Gospel of Mark was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew. Greek is in the Indo-European language family, and males and females have different pronouns.

The writers of the Gospels were Jews whose first language was Hebrew. It is believed that they first drafted in Hebrew, then wrote the final versions in Greek.

Quote:
Jesus probably spoke either Greek or Aramaic.

He probably spoke both Greek and Hebrew. Certainly a relatively educated Jew at the time would have known Hebrew.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

08 Mar 2010, 11:03 pm

Orwell wrote:
pandabear wrote:
The Gospel of Mark was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew. Greek is in the Indo-European language family, and males and females have different pronouns.

The writers of the Gospels were Jews whose first language was Hebrew. It is believed that they first drafted in Hebrew, then wrote the final versions in Greek.

.


Believed by whom? By you? I've never heard that before. As I understand it, classical Hebrew by that time was no longer spoken--it was only used for liturgical purposes.

I think that you are wrong about the Gospels being first drafted in Hebrew.



Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

09 Mar 2010, 12:03 am

pandabear wrote:
Orwell wrote:
pandabear wrote:
The Gospel of Mark was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew. Greek is in the Indo-European language family, and males and females have different pronouns.

The writers of the Gospels were Jews whose first language was Hebrew. It is believed that they first drafted in Hebrew, then wrote the final versions in Greek.

.


Believed by whom? By you? I've never heard that before. As I understand it, classical Hebrew by that time was no longer spoken--it was only used for liturgical purposes.

I think that you are wrong about the Gospels being first drafted in Hebrew.

I read it in a book on New Testament Greek a while back, unfortunately I don't have it with me to refer to now. As I recall, this assessment was based on some linguistic idiosyncrasies in the text of the Gospels that make more sense if you assume they were a translation from Hebrew, or at least that the authors were thinking in Hebrew. I believe there was something about the early chapters of John being written in the same form as traditional Hebrew poetry, but I would have to check again.

I'm heading home later this week, so I'll dig that book out and check it if you want.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


DNForrest
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jan 2008
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,198
Location: Oregon

09 Mar 2010, 2:48 am

Other, since he loves all (including heterosexuals, homosexuals, bisexuasl, transgenders, etc), he's Pansexual.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

09 Mar 2010, 5:01 am

pandabear wrote:
Well?........

As far as we know, Jesus never kissed a girl, but he did kiss Judas Iscariot.

Jesus never married, which would have been unusual for a Jewish boy at the time.

He may have been influenced by Greek culture, where homosexuality among men was normal.


Speculating about whether Jesus was queer makes as much sense as asking if Sam had the hots for Frodo.

ruveyn



Last edited by ruveyn on 09 Mar 2010, 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

aspi-rant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Sep 2008
Age: 62
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,448
Location: denmark

09 Mar 2010, 5:24 am

hetero.

it is widely speculated that he in fact was married to mary magdala (also known as magdalene)... and even was kissing her... on the mouth - the naughty boy. ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magda ... _Apocrypha



Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

09 Mar 2010, 6:49 am

aspi-rant wrote:
hetero.

it is widely speculated that he in fact was married to mary magdala (also known as magdalene)... and even was kissing her... on the mouth - the naughty boy. ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Magda ... _Apocrypha


Actually, mouth kissing seems well accepted. It's other body parts that seem to disturb people. Nevertheless, ass kissing seems to be a way of life in some circles.



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

09 Mar 2010, 12:33 pm

Orwell wrote:
I read it in a book on New Testament Greek a while back, unfortunately I don't have it with me to refer to now. As I recall, this assessment was based on some linguistic idiosyncrasies in the text of the Gospels that make more sense if you assume they were a translation from Hebrew, or at least that the authors were thinking in Hebrew. I believe there was something about the early chapters of John being written in the same form as traditional Hebrew poetry, but I would have to check again.

I'm heading home later this week, so I'll dig that book out and check it if you want.


There appears to be a spirited debate over whether the New Testament was originally written in Greek or Aramaic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_primacy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_primacy

There don't seem to be many people who adhere to the theory that the material was originally written in Hebrew.



pandabear
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,402

09 Mar 2010, 12:52 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
pandabear wrote:
It is clear that Paul was asexual. He was much too much of a workaholic, and didn't much care for Christians having a good time (including especially a sexual good time).

Actually Paul was one of the lead people scourging and pounding on Christians, thought that they were filth, and really he was doing that the way many people might treat wackos of a new cult. You could in that sense consider him a bit of a redneck of his time, likely quite hetero unless his aggressive impulses were more of a cerebral nature.

Of course he was riding along, was struck blind for a few days, heard a voice, and the rest is quite a healthy stretch of the New Testament.


Jesus on the other hand - to go on the hypothesis that he both a) existed and b) was who he says he was (or at least believed it himself), I'd just say that the was on a very intense life long mission - when someone's existence is that driven to where they would not engage their sexuality in their belief that it would slow them down or take them off mark; you really can't make a clinical diagnosis, it says nothing about orientation and simply that their drive to resolve larger existential issues almost muted their sexuality in contrast.


Paul did work very hard to wipe out Christians. Another example of his workaholism is in 2 Thessalonians 3:

Quote:
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone's food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."
We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. And as for you, brothers, never tire of doing what is right.


If you look, on the other hand, at Jesus when he visits Mary and Marth (Luke 10):

Quote:

As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. 40But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!"
"Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her."


You perceive a much more relaxed attitude towards work. Paul, on the other hand, would have said: "Don't be such a lazy-bones, Mary! Get up and WORK!"

Also, Jesus is able magically to feed thousands of people with five loaves of bread and two fish. Paul would have said: "Okay, you lot, GET TO WORK, NOW!! !!"

In terms of sexuality, The Last Temptation of Christ has Jesus marrying both Martha and Mary. Most Sunday school versions have Jesus being a perfectly asexual gentleman.

Also, Paul certainly traveled a lot. I wonder if he might possibly have had some men or women on the side, like most modern day evangelists, but was successful in keeping it all hushed up?



mgran
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 May 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,864

09 Mar 2010, 1:17 pm

pandabear wrote:
mgran wrote:
In Hebrew, as in many other languages, the male pronoun is used to refer to both males and females, and it is likely that He referred to men lusting after women, rather than women lusting after men, since men in that society got away with a lot more than women did. It had nothing to do with His sexuality.



The Gospel of Mark was originally written in Greek, not Hebrew. Greek is in the Indo-European language family, and males and females have different pronouns.

Jesus probably spoke either Greek or Aramaic.
The gospel of Mark was written in Greek, but Greek, like Hebrew, uses the male pronoun to refer to both males and females as a group. Also, though Mark was written in Greek, it's very heavily influenced by the Hebrew, as you can see from certain linguistic markers, including most obviously Mark pausing to translate certain things Jesus says.

Regardless of whether Jesus used the Greek or Hebrew plural referring to a mixed crowd of people, His use of the male pronoun would have been understood to include both male and female.