Discussion: which religion most likely to produce Atheists?

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Assuming you don't live in Norway or North Korea, you may have not been brought up to be an atheist. Prior to the disregarding or rejection of one's belief system is when they would be "cursing their gods" due to some random tragedy or the actions of people or whatever other unsound yet personal reason.

They certainly give a bad example, but it is invalid still. People's success or failure in living out the tenants of the belief system they claim to adhere to does not affect the truth value of the belief system. They make life difficult for those who care, especially if they operate in any leadership capacity, but such hypocrites don't provide a valid reason to believe such a faith to be a lie.

I guess it depends on how extensive the brainwashing is of any particular religion. If knowledge is effectively banned about aspects of science that disagree with the religious dogma there is likely to be less exploration of the issues and alternatives. Probably easier to go from Christian to atheist than Moslem to atheist.

There are also enormous social pressures to remain within certain religions. Personally I was brought up in a Christian environment but that was thrashed out of me at school during the enforced morning assemblies (literally) "You will sing praise to the Lord in the morning! You will pray and learn that Jesus is love or you will be thrashed with a cane in the headmasters study." Subsequent scientific education was enough to completely turn me away from the vestiges of Christian belief that remained.

I was raised in a Christian home, which in my case means my parents and grandparents were all believers and practiced the faith to varying degrees (I had a LOT of trouble with my dad). So at one point I might have been a prime candidate for abandoning my faith.

So this isn't an argument I'm putting up for debate as it is a general observation of what I've seen in regards to people raised Christian but later changed their minds:

GENERALLY SPEAKING--Children who grow up in homes of unbelievers will generally not believe, likely because they've never had reason to. Those that become curious about Christian belief may read the Bible or attend church once or twice, and out of THOSE you'll have a few that sense a real need for God and Christ in their lives.

Also, generally speaking--Children who grow up in homes of believers, no matter how good or bad the experience is, may decide that following the tenets of Christian teachings are not favorable to how they want to live their lives. They stop attending church as soon as they are away from home and maybe even come to adopt some alternative view.

There is, of course, a stronger likelihood that those who are raised in Christian faith hold onto it (as was my case). It could, perhaps, also be possible that children who were raised in a more ecumenical fashion MIGHT have adopted the same beliefs had they spent a significant amount of time in the church. Likewise, I might just as easily been a Buddhist had I been born to different parents. But on the other hand, a Buddhist might examine Christian teaching and convert. And still, a Christian who is so in name only might convert to Buddhism upon examining THOSE beliefs. The best thing that ANYONE of any faith can do is raise their kids the best way they can, including the transmission of faith. Even if they fall away from it, at least you guarantee that they had some kind of experience to draw from in drawing their own conclusions.

Pretty much agree about the dynamics of who picks up what faith and how as you outlined. However, I disagree to some extent with the section quoted. I do agree that the best thing people can do is pass on the benefit of their knowledge and experience to their kids; however this often (unknowingly) includes a lot of other baggage that is sometimes either plain incorrect or hateful (but clothed in nice shiny religious morals). Parents can pass on hateful beliefs that are racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic or twisted in various other ways. The Mormons are a prime example of this with their institutionalised homophobia and Islam with its extreme sexism. Of course atheists are not immune to these attitudes, it is just that those attitudes are not an endemic part of being atheist unlike certain religions.

Personally I think parents should give their kids the opportunity and confidence to explore the matter of religions / atheism and science for themselves and encourage a spirit of enquiry rather than give them a pre-digested pile of dogma to swallow.

However, parents will always pass on what they believe rightly or wrongly is "the best thing" and few people will ever agree on what that "best thing" is.

People tend to teach what they believe in practice anyhow. It is better to teach in a more comprehensive manner rather than by osmosis though. "Forcing" kids or other people to believe anything, that would be wrong. However, explaining things and teaching to the best of one's knowledge is not wrong. Also, I think that kids should not be coddled and treated as if they cannot understand complex things. They can derive a language without any previous knowledge of it, so at least in that respect they are smarter than most adults, and so they should be given proper explanations when they ask "why?" rather than being treated as imbeciles. People who give simplistic, or otherwise dumb answers, to children under the presumption that they cannot think is part of the problem.

Fully agree. When I was a child and asked religion related questions I was fed nonsense or told to just believe what I was being told - sometimes under threat of punishment for non-compliance! And that was in a state school in England in the 1970's. I gather that some questions in Muslim countries warrant severe punishment.

At one Church during my fiancee's childhood, they were talking about the history of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah in Sunday school and she had made a remark about her being a descendant of the people of Judah... she was actually sent to the pastor's office and asked not to return to that church for fear she might be a "Judaizer". They didn't bother to think about what she was actually saying, they just presumed what they wanted and acted on their presumption, to a kid... even if she were religiously Jewish then, they shouldn't have treated her like that. However, idiots do as idiots are and they tend to provide a bad face to everyone else.

I would have to assume that it would be easier for Jews to convert to atheists, and likely has been by percentages.

Christians by number however, probably have more that go from Christian to atheist.

I would assume more Muslims would convert to atheism than Christians, if they got the opportunity to do so anyway. Mainly because, the fact they don't have the opportunity to do so.

The failure then, was in my conciseness.

Of everyone participating, I think Parakeet best understood what I was getting at.



And that sums it up.

In Hinduism, for instance, maths and sciences are held to be laudable goals, or at least, the religious practices do not find such study to be detrimental to their faith. A gift of a poison pen, if it were. It would be easy to say yeah they produce a ton of atheists because they are so much into science... but their faith also promulgates that people are less individuals and more elements of the family, of the society. Moreso and in a different way from Christianity.

A lot gets said about liberal churches: "Believe whatever your heart tells you". Thats the opposite of what is interesting me. Thats when you develop people that say "I'm spiritual" which is about as meaningful as "I like all sorts of music". You don't get atheists from that so much as agnosts.

I'm more interested in the tipping points of faith. The ledge that a Christian has to walk is narrower than a Hindus, but the Hindu is encouraged to stay closer to the edge.

Last edited by Fuzzy on 23 Apr 2010, 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

The farce of Christianity as it had been taught to me became painfully obvious to me in 1977 when the man who later became the president of the entire denomination had absolutely no solution to suggest for my shambled life.

People turn away from being "churched" for all kinds of reasons, but people also turn to "God" when there is absolutely nowhere else to turn -- no atheists in foxholes -- and "away from religion" is a large part the best way I know for getting there.

Well, in some religions, being married (usually by some arrangement the predates your birth) kind of locks you into the religion. Which is why those that are smart enough to get information and turn away from it before they are of age usually try to do so. But even then, it will be frowned upon by the group. =/

"away from religion, towards god" is certainly in line with my experiences as a teen, though I did not have a shambled life. I'd like to hear that story of yours some time.

Embracing atheism... is that even possible? Unlatching myself from faith is more how it feels. It was one of a number of steps I was taking anyway. As I decoupled from orthodoxy - similar to what you seem to have done - instead of finding purity in singularity - as you apparently have - the god particle steadily shrunk to an infinitesimal size.

One day, I said to myself, "Lets pretend its not even there. Just an experiment for a few months." It was a effort to automatically not murmur little prayers like "God help them find that lost little girl". By this point in my life I was no longer praying for things for myself, only for my family and the innocent.

What I found was that the act of those requests for divine intercession reinforced worrying about things beyond my control. Worse, they were hobbling my willingness to deal with problems on my own. More faith, more reliance was only going to make it worse. If you want to create an ineffective person, let someone else solve all their problems.

So there I was, in an enforced no prayer period. Not for me, not for family, and not for strangers.

And I found myself happier. Letting go settled the rough edges of my life.

Education, knowledge and experience are places to turn when personal resources run dry. Knowing that addiction can be overcome eases your own struggle(though I cant speak from experience). A good understanding of statistics and probability lend assurance that a miserable spell in your life will end.

Which brings me full circle and back on topic.

Faiths and societies encourage these sorts of intellectual pursuits to various degrees. As you learn them more fully, it seems you would find yourself on your knees less and less often.

You have said some stupid things in the past but this really takes the cake. Where do you religious nuts get off thinking that without god in our lives atheists can only be bitter and resentful to the rest of humanity. The opposite is true. Many atheists care deeply about humanity and of the planet on which we reside. Unlike religious nutjobs we do not kill our human brethren in the name of our religion. And as for your statement "However, there are only a few rational Atheists I've come across " I can only presume that the suspension of reality that you need to undertake to ignore all rational scientific data so that you can continue to believe in biblical creation, also suspends the ability to see rational thinking when you come across it.

Atheism

Possibly so, but they are among some of the nastiest people here on WP!

Maybe that is because we are sick and tired of hearing how we are people hating, devil worshipers. Sorry if you find my post offensive but I find religion and all that goes with it far more offensive. I have little patience for people who continue to believe in nonsense, who pass such nonsense onto children and undermine the ability of science teachers to inform and enlighten.