why women to date jerks, but chase after them also?

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Tim_Tex
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25 Apr 2010, 9:39 pm

I always make the first move when I come across someone I might want to date, and despite every rejection, I keep doing it.

Yet I always get rejected.


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hale_bopp
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25 Apr 2010, 9:45 pm

I don't think wanting to change the man really comes into it... if it does, the person simply doesn't like him enough. Its more about wanting to become good enough so the jerk likes you.



sinsboldly
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25 Apr 2010, 9:46 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I thought people didn't like drama.

This is very interesting.


goodness! Theater is nothing but drama, TV is nothing but drama, songs are dramatic, romance is drama, read a book, the drama is caring about the characters and then the conflict comes and how they work and deal with and then the resolution and denouement . . .

how can you even think that people don't like drama? :roll:


Merle



hale_bopp
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25 Apr 2010, 9:56 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
I thought people didn't like drama.

This is very interesting.


goodness! Theater is nothing but drama, TV is nothing but drama, songs are dramatic, romance is drama, read a book, the drama is caring about the characters and then the conflict comes and how they work and deal with and then the resolution and denouement . . .

how can you even think that people don't like drama? :roll:


Merle


He means in a relationship. People don't like drama queens and problems and hissy fits, and I think he's right.



zen_mistress
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25 Apr 2010, 10:00 pm

Men dont tend to like drama, and neither do aspie women usually. But NT women can often love drama, and jerks cause drama, all the drama of "Does he love me? What is wrong wth me?" and the emotional roller coaster.. it can take a few years for many women to get sick of such men and then choose a good nice guy.


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25 Apr 2010, 10:01 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
They think they can change them.


What do they do when they realize that they won't change?



I dumped them.



sinsboldly
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25 Apr 2010, 10:22 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
I thought people didn't like drama.

This is very interesting.


goodness! Theater is nothing but drama, TV is nothing but drama, songs are dramatic, romance is drama, read a book, the drama is caring about the characters and then the conflict comes and how they work and deal with and then the resolution and denouement . . .

how can you even think that people don't like drama? :roll:


Merle


He means in a relationship. People don't like drama queens and problems and hissy fits, and I think he's right.


now I think you are kidding, too, H_B!

Sorry, but I think you guys are missing the boat on why Jerks get chased by 'nice' girls. It is because they are bored by 'nice' boys and are searching for the drama that starts the juices flowing. Yeah, they think they can 'change him', and yeah, they think that somehow they (the girl) is the 'special one' that can make it happen, but even if this was done and somehow they could change him, they would go back to being bored again and out again for the challenge for the next jerk. You might even say it is a sort of 'fetish' to the girl, because that is what turns them on like nothing the 'nice' boy can do.


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hale_bopp
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25 Apr 2010, 10:26 pm

I don't agree with that tbh.



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25 Apr 2010, 11:06 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
sinsboldly wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
I thought people didn't like drama.

This is very interesting.


goodness! Theater is nothing but drama, TV is nothing but drama, songs are dramatic, romance is drama, read a book, the drama is caring about the characters and then the conflict comes and how they work and deal with and then the resolution and denouement . . .

how can you even think that people don't like drama? :roll:


Merle


He means in a relationship. People don't like drama queens and problems and hissy fits, and I think he's right.


now I think you are kidding, too, H_B!

Sorry, but I think you guys are missing the boat on why Jerks get chased by 'nice' girls. It is because they are bored by 'nice' boys and are searching for the drama that starts the juices flowing. Yeah, they think they can 'change him', and yeah, they think that somehow they (the girl) is the 'special one' that can make it happen, but even if this was done and somehow they could change him, they would go back to being bored again and out again for the challenge for the next jerk. You might even say it is a sort of 'fetish' to the girl, because that is what turns them on like nothing the 'nice' boy can do.


I don't fully agree with this because the same analogy can almost be used with someone who is an abusive relationship. I have known women who have stayed with their abusive partners because they beleived they could "change" that person for the better. And of course they never could. But certainly they were never out to fulfill a "fetish".

Though everyone is attracted to different personalities, and for some women hitching up with the bad boy might fulfill a certain need on their end.



techstepgenr8tion
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25 Apr 2010, 11:25 pm

While I understand the impulse to have what's off limits or someone who's in so many ways (with or without words) that you don't make their bar - I don't understand how people can literally let themselves ruin their own lives that way, I would think that eventually existential self-interest would kick in and they'd really ask themselves "What will make me happy in the long term?""If I want to have that great growing bond with someone, the dreamy little house in the suburbs with the white picket fence and 2.2 kids - why do I want to be with to make that work?" or whatever the situation may be.

True, I'm sure most women who do find themselves in the jerk-chase cycle break themselves of it around say 25 or 26, those who can't though or who want to chase 'bad boys' (some I've even known to say they like skinny punk rock guys with tattoos - and they're very closed minded musically), I have to wonder what's going on there and whether they've been abused or whether they're self-esteem is just summersaulting down so badly that they can't face reality and need to hide in a dream. Yes, if a girl has pink hair, barbells through her eyebrow and lip, and says she wants to date a scene kid its a completely different story it seems than a yuppy girl craving an image - the former is actually in touch with herself, the later - there could sometimes be more to it (ie. she's alternative herself but dresses professional), but most of the time it just seems like they're out of touch with themselves. I even know a few rather attractive girls who are in our circle of friends, are in their late twenties, and its sad to watch.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm laying it down too brutally, this is what I've typically seen of it though. I'm not really including girls here who run from passive-aggressive sorts with huge self-esteem issues who worry that they've been called 'nice', more about the girls who could meet the man of their dreams, him show some subtle interest, and they're too lost in their own world at that point, the train leaves the station and they end up searing when he marries someone else - only to learn from it and keep missing more mr. rights the same way.



techstepgenr8tion
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25 Apr 2010, 11:48 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
now I think you are kidding, too, H_B!

Sorry, but I think you guys are missing the boat on why Jerks get chased by 'nice' girls. It is because they are bored by 'nice' boys and are searching for the drama that starts the juices flowing. Yeah, they think they can 'change him', and yeah, they think that somehow they (the girl) is the 'special one' that can make it happen, but even if this was done and somehow they could change him, they would go back to being bored again and out again for the challenge for the next jerk. You might even say it is a sort of 'fetish' to the girl, because that is what turns them on like nothing the 'nice' boy can do.


I don't know if guys are just lucky in this regard but a lot of us can typically keep ourselves from 'realizing' this kind of trouble in our real life relationships simply by making the 'insanely stupid but sh-- hot mistakes' reside and stay in the realm of fantasy and auto-erotica, ie. we can let our inner Marquise De Sade run free and hit anything while having a wave of overwhelming relief hit us afterward at the fact that we never actually went there in real life. Do you think women have more trouble doing this or is it likely that its the same types of guys and girls in general who make twitty life decisions for similar reasons?



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25 Apr 2010, 11:51 pm

tellyawhat wrote:
I agree with some of what has been said but I would add that it is these guys tendency to cause a woman to feel some strong emotion, good or bad, that affects them so much. It's what makes women say that they have chemistry with a certain man.

This is the impression I've been getting lately.

Of all the women I know platonically who I've watched, very often it seems like there's a mismatch between their emotions and their actions. For example, if a guy does something that pisses a girl off, instead of jeaopardizing or ending the relationship, she focuses on it more. She'll act angry and bent out of shape, but it won't diminish her attachment to the guy.... If anything she winds up around him tighter, despite her words. It ends up taking absurd repetition, dire consequences, and overwhelming bad stuff to make a bunch of women actually dump a guy who causes drama.

So....
Tim_Tex wrote:
I thought people didn't like drama.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. But this notion ends up getting turned upon it's head, at least with the women I know. Anything that provokes strong emotions, with regular variance, hot/cold, happy/sad, frustrated/hopeful, it's like a damned rollercoaster. And as soon as one rollercoaster relationship ends, I see em go straight to the next like a junkie. Guys who turn out to be stable or predictable get dumped and cheated on, or mistreated, even if they're a catch with good self-esteem. It doesn't even really require that the guy is that much of a jerk, nor that she can fix him, it seems as if it's more a matter of wether the guy can provide highly varied emotional stimulation, where happiness is as valuable as frustration, in acceptable doses.
I see this occur in seemingly stable women, so it's not just women with a messed up history, or quirks, etc.

WTF, man. :x

But, again, this has only been my lone observation....

In contrast, I think men aren't nearly so hyped up over emotional button-pushing, but are still somewhat susceptible.



sinsboldly
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26 Apr 2010, 12:00 am

Sound wrote:
So....
Tim_Tex wrote:
I thought people didn't like drama.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. But this notion ends up getting turned upon it's head, at least with the women I know. Anything that provokes strong emotions, with regular variance, hot/cold, happy/sad, frustrated/hopeful, it's like a damned rollercoaster. And as soon as one rollercoaster relationship ends, I see em go straight to the next like a junkie. Guys who turn out to be stable or predictable get dumped and cheated on, or mistreated, even if they're a catch with good self-esteem. It doesn't even really require that the guy is that much of a jerk, nor that she can fix him, it seems as if it's more a matter of wether the guy can provide highly varied emotional stimulation, where happiness is as valuable as frustration, in acceptable doses.
I see this occur in seemingly stable women, so it's not just women with a messed up history, or quirks, etc.

WTF, man. :x

But, again, this has only been my lone observation....

In contrast, I think men aren't nearly so hyped up over emotional button-pushing, but are still somewhat susceptible.


it is like computer gaming for women. Really.


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HopeGrows
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26 Apr 2010, 12:18 am

People tend to choose mates who mirror the manner in which their parents treated them, and/or the dynamics of their parents' relationship.

When you have a relatively healthy relationship to observe as a child (both partners treat each other with respect, very limited drama, love and affection is demonstrated, actions have appropriate and predictable consequences, reasonable conflict resolution, etc.), you'll seek out a partner who can relate to you in much the same way.

If you have parents who raised you with respect, love, encouragement, taught you how to cope successfully, etc.), you're going to look for a partner who treats you the same way. Nothing else will feel authentic to you, and you'll reject it.

On the other hand, if your parents were abusive, belitttling, hurtful, discouraging, undermined your self-esteem, etc. - that's the kind of treatment that's going to seem "authentic" to you - and you'll seek it out in a mate.

If your parents had a dysfunctional or abusive relationship filled with screaming arguments, physical/emotional abuse, blame, take-no-prisoners style "negotiations," etc., again you'll seek a partner who relates to you in the same way your parents related.

Can you change what you look for in a partner? Yes. But choosing a partner who appears very different from past partners usually doesn't work....you'll tend to home in on the "bad" partner no matter how different they may seem on the surface. It's typically important to heal past damage before you can truly choose a different type of partner, and/or walk away from bad choices when you realize you've chosen badly.


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techstepgenr8tion
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26 Apr 2010, 12:32 am

HopeGrows wrote:
If you have parents who raised you with respect, love, encouragement, taught you how to cope successfully, etc.), you're going to look for a partner who treats you the same way. Nothing else will feel authentic to you, and you'll reject it.

I think that's my case exactly, I'm just hoping that when all is said and done it's an advantage rather than being the profound disadvantage that it's appeared to be in the past. I'm still working on how to identify women who authentically react well to that and know what external traits to look for.



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26 Apr 2010, 1:06 am

sinsboldly wrote:
it is like computer gaming for women. Really.

At first I didn't get what you meant, but then as it dawned on me....
That's brilliant. Guys get exactly the same about video games. It's why we b***h about games that are broken, and don't stop playing them.
Weird.