13 year old autistic boy arrested for meltdown

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Master_Pedant
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03 Jun 2010, 11:31 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
This is nonsense and stupid "one-size-fits-all-no-matter-the-context" style justice. The law is shaped around neurotypicals who intentionally engage in acts of aggression out of vindictiveness or manipulative intent. There is something very different about somebody with marked sensory integration issues (that are known to the school) acting out because of torment and damaging propery due to sensory overload. THE TWO CASES AREN'T EVEN COMPARABLE. It's like saying somebody should be jailed for punching a man who was comming at them with a knife because "fear is not a get out of jail free card".

The moral depravity of society in general and the "blame the victim" mentality when it comes to bullying in particular disgusts me.

I very much agree with everything you just wrote. The way that this will be handled will likely be a horror to watch. I mean, sure, "autism isn't a get out of jail card", but... it isn't justice to fail to recognize that this kid may not have committed any moral wrong, so to speak. If anything, it is INJUSTICE to fail to recognize that.

I feel sympathy for the kid, and horror at what is going to happen. If I believed in God, I would pray for him. If I believed in God, I would curse him and ask him why He could allow such things to happen. Instances like this though are the real reason I can't believe a God exists. And I know... that seems very self-serving given the current PPR contest.... but, on some level it really is true. The Christian church would likely be no better than the thuggeries we see in this case, if not worse in that they feel free to proclaim "God's will", and... well... I know from my own experiences that they aren't better.


I agree with your first paragraph, as for the second - I've never really taken the notion of God seriously enough even to think in terms of the "Problem of Evil" so I can't really relate to what you're experiencing.

But, yeah, this situation is messed up and based totally on the local police's complete ignorance of autism. If any of the officers had a son with Kanner's syndrome I guarantee you Kaaron Guillory wouldn't have been sent to the slammer that night.



Awesomelyglorious
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03 Jun 2010, 11:38 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
I agree with your first paragraph, as for the second - I've never really taken the notion of God seriously enough even to think in terms of the "Problem of Evil" so I can't really relate to what you're experiencing.

But, yeah, this situation is messed up and based totally on the local police's complete ignorance of autism. If any of the officers had a son with Kanner's syndrome I guarantee you Kaaron Guillory wouldn't have been sent to the slammer that night.

Hah! I can understand that! :D That's why your atheism will always ring hollow as it is just a joust against a construct. :P But all kidding aside, an instance like this is one of the reasons I did give up on the concept, which is why I tied it back. (also the contest, I have to be extra-atheistic and thus always talk about God to deny God, which paradoxically undermines the real goal of atheism in the first place. :P )

Right, it really is a messed up situation.



ruennsheng
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04 Jun 2010, 8:37 am

Unfortunately, I experienced a meltdown so I did nasty things to others. Now I really need to 'siam' off. (Please google 'siam singlish')


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visagrunt
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04 Jun 2010, 12:57 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
This is nonsense and utterly stupid "one-size-fits-all-no-matter-the-context" style justice. The law is shaped around neurotypicals who intentionally engage in acts of aggression out of vindictiveness or manipulative intent.


While that may be true, though I don't concede that point, it's essentially irrelevant. The peace officer's job is to maintain the peace, and enforce the law. If you have a problem with how the law is developed, fine. But that does not exempt peace officers from discharging their function.

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There is something very different about somebody with marked sensory integration issues (that are known to the school) acting out because of torment and damaging propery due to sensory overload. THE TWO CASES AREN'T EVEN COMPARABLE. It's like saying somebody should be jailed for punching a man who was comming at them with a knife because "fear is not a get out of jail free card".


This goes to my original point, which is that the school bears the responsibility here. They know of the limitations, the police officer does not. It is incumbent upon them to make this information known, or better yet, to take steps from preventing it in the first place.

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The moral depravity of society in general and the "blame the victim" mentality when it comes to bullying in particular disgusts me.


No one's blaming the victim here. He did no wrong, and no court would ever convict him in these circumstances. But even if he was acting as a result of provocation, and subject to a recognized disability, the fact of the matter is that the police officer has to stop the disruption of the peace. Arrest is not the same thing as conviction, and even though we may be shocked at the methods used, I am still left with the question of, "What was the alternative?"

When a person is having a violent meltdown, involving both injury and property damage, just what do you propose that a police officer do? When the police officer's attempts at peaceful intervention result in violence directed at the police officer, what then?

Putting my cynic's hat back on, I have not yet disabused myself of the notion that the school allowed the police officer to remain blind to the particular circumstances of the child, so that they could raise a discipline concern that would allow them to remove the child from the school. How do you get a problem kid out of your school? Simple, allow the problem to escalate.


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08 Jun 2010, 10:42 pm

Meltdowns have a tendency to freak the NTs out when they have probably never seen anything like that before...its scary to them. When I was working in a resteraunt I had several meltdowns over being bullied. I am a really big guy who can yell exremely loud. I scared a couple waitresses who ended up going home early and were still crying when they left. They were standing around when I was yelling at the bully they were not even involved. Strange behavior sets NTs off making them more defensive. Police officers have had to deal with violent individuals just about everyday on their jobs. Many of the violent individuals they had fought with in the past have been mentally unbalanced or on illegal subsitances that impare their judgment. The officer has to defend himself and the public before a violent person stikes out. They have seen strange behavior escalate into violent behavior through out their careers. if I came upon a stranger who is acting in a suspicous manner I put my hand in my pocket gripping my mace to get it ready just to be sure. Thankfully I have never had to use it or sprayed anybody on accident. I can see why the cop sprayed or tased the kid who was acting strangely, I personally believe the school should have told the police officer before hand so he could have handled it better with proper information of the situation,



ProfessorX
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15 Jun 2010, 12:08 pm

Personally, I found how the police acted to be out of line for, I can remember when I was a kid and had a meltdown and yes, a police officer thought I was some sort of unruly child whom needed intervention.Anyways, the point is that when dealing with autistic people one should never approach a situation with ignorance nor lack of empathy..



greengeek
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18 Jun 2010, 7:45 am

Police and schools are, backwards, stupid, and uncaring, and also most police are rogues who think they are above the law, and who go on power trips every time they get into uniform.


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