Undermining the Authority of the Teacher

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lilliansmom
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17 Jun 2010, 11:31 pm

Wow, this is probably why my daughter is so frustrated in 5th grade - soon to be 6th. I think the teacher should have said "Really? How is it wrong, come up and show me." So the teacher was wrong to insist he/she is right but your son does need to understand that taking over the whiteboard is kind of inappropriate - although we can all feel the frustration of the situation.



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18 Jun 2010, 12:02 am

azurecrayon wrote:
well, i am not an aspie, so i would say that was not the correct way to handle the situation on your sons part. my SO is an aspie and would be totally with you that your sons action was reasonable.

i usually try to explain it to my SO as respect and relationships with people are more important than making sure all the facts and figures are correct. for a student to go up to a teachers work in front of the class and erase it and rewrite it is disrespectful. if having the calculation correct was necessary for the work, then asking quietly about it or approaching the teacher alone is fine, but if it was a correction solely for corrections sake, then its inappropriate.

humans make mistakes, and its ok to let them be. the compulsion to correct or point out mistakes is a form of rigid thinking that i see in my house all the time, and it can get very tiresome for those being corrected.


You're right about some things here, but there is one simple thing you are overlooking. The teacher is an adult. The student is a child. Adults need to admit, even to children when they make mistakes. Simply ignoring the student in the first place was childish on the teacher's part. It should not be surprising the student reacted in a reciprocating manner. That's a VERY old and well known psychological principle. Anyone remember a book called "Games People Play?" The whole premise of the book is that we play roles when we interact with each other. If you speak to a friend as an parent would to a child, expect a childlike response. If you speak to a friend as and adult, expect an adult response. Speak to them as a child would to a parent, expect a parental response. It gets more complicated than that, of course.

This teacher acted like a child, so the student reacted as a parent, which drove the teacher even deeper in to his childish role. Not very adult of him. The teacher was wrong. Period. Authority demands respect, and respect has to be earned, not demanded. Nobody really respects overtly authoritarian rule, when it is enforced in this manner. The teacher was wrong, and disrespectful himself, and should have admitted it. Instead he chose to act like an idiot instead of an adult. I think this student acted just fine. Sometimes blatant disrespectful authority should be called out and shown up for what it is.


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TheKingsRaven
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18 Jun 2010, 4:17 am

I think the teacher was out of line here. Their professional duty was to pass on accurate information, outside of class they can talk to your son about the proper way to correct teachers. Inside the classroom its their job to suck it up and correct the mistake.



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18 Jun 2010, 6:27 am

You are demanding logic of public school administrators. This is a futile task, as things such as logic and common sense are well beyond their intellectual abilities.

While what your son did was unorthodox, had I been the instructor, I would have been delighted that a student caught my mistake and was eager to participate in my class.

Had I been your son's mother, I would have told the school that my son has AS and was not intending to be disruptive, and I worry the instructor and school's reaction will have a negative effect on him.

Personally if that happened to me when I was younger I probably would have stopped going to school all together, not want anything to do with the subject, and would have gone back into the shell my parents kept trying to get me to come out of.



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18 Jun 2010, 6:30 am

gramirez wrote:
Because teachers know everything. EVERY teacher I've ever encountered thought they knew everything in the universe. That's why they become teachers - so they can feel superior to little kids.


In college my instructors would usually say "Watch me, I make mistakes"

I usually preferred instructors who made mistakes to ones who knew everything because ones who knew everything and never made mistakes were intimidating.



azurecrayon
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18 Jun 2010, 12:08 pm

MrXxx wrote:
Simply ignoring the student in the first place was childish on the teacher's part.


the OP didnt say the student was ignored. he specifically said the boy tried to explain the mistake and didnt get his message across, then got frustrated and went to the board and erased and rewrote the teachers work. to me it sounds like either the student couldnt communicate where the error lay, or the teacher misunderstood what was being communicated. the correct response would then be more communication or collaboration on the calculation.

either way, two wrongs do not make a right. and in a classroom situation, authority rules and the teacher will always be the one with authority. it is a blatant show of disrespect to erase and rewrite someone else's work in front of the class, whether its a teachers work or a students work. ive seen some classrooms that are like shark tanks, if the teacher loses authority standing it can really wreak havoc in the classroom.

these kinds of scenarios cannot be armchair quarterbacked anyway. we are only getting a secondhand account of one side of the equation. im sure the teacher would have a different story to tell.



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18 Jun 2010, 12:33 pm

Oh boy, was I ever guilty of this one. I had a teacher I distinctly remember making incorrect statements (once about current events, once about grammar) and I corrected her. Now, I should not have blurted it out the way I did, but I was fortunate in that I didn't get yelled at too badly.

I agree with those saying two wrongs don't make a right. The teacher's mistake didn't justify me cutting her off or blurting out. Learning how to appropriately approach something like that was the best way.


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18 Jun 2010, 11:26 pm

I remember undermining the authourity, of my teacher's aid, for all the times, that she dragged me through the girl's bathroom, trying to force me to go to the bathroom, when I didn't have to go. I've decided, that half a year, after that garbage stopped, that I'd turn the tables on HER. She'd give me unneeded help with my math, and I'd get back at her, by calling her, Dollar Nestman, and Nestman Quarter. I've also called her, Wayne Gretzky, and Wayne Gretzky Nestman, a few times. I've figured that she was nasty for dragging me into the bathroom to mentally abuse me, for 8 months, so it must be my turn to mentally abuse the hell out of her. :twisted:


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19 Jun 2010, 4:57 am

Wofl wrote:
Well here's one that sound somewhat reminiscent of my life in school and I really don't have too much of a problem with, could be me...

I have 2 sons aged 9 and 5 and both have inherited my AS, though by comparison still very mild. My eldest Louis is much better with social interaction than his brother or I but still has the occasional struggle. His school are pretty understanding, a million times better than a few years ago when I was in the system. Despite this he is still very much ahead of the class and whilst they are considering a jump of a year I think he would be more suited to a 2 year leap or they will find themselves with the same problem a few months into the next term.

Yesterday Louis was sent out of Maths class for 'Undermining the Authority of the Teacher', one I'd never came across personally, I was just thrown out for everything else they could think of to get rid of me. The teacher was explaining something on the whiteboard and the calculation was incorrect. Lou raised his hand and tried to explain the mistake politely but failed to get the message across. This got him a little frustrated to the point of walking up to the front, rubbing out and re-writing the calculation correctly, which got him sent out. Could be my own AS speaking but I fail to see why this was such a problem, 'Okay' he could have approached the situation another way but I don't see it as a reason to further ostracise from his classmates, surely the teacher of all people should get it right in the first place. He doesn't get disruptive when bored like I or his younger brother he just writes music when he is finished his classwork and his teachers are happy with this, but they are going to experience problems such as this as long as he is being taught a curriculum well beneath his ability.

What are your thoughts?


Your son outsmarted the teacher? Buy him an ice cream! :lol:



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19 Jun 2010, 10:38 am

MrXxx wrote:
Authority demands respect, and respect has to be earned, not demanded. Nobody really respects overtly authoritarian rule, when it is enforced in this manner.


That pretty much hits the nail on the head.

This being said, I've been in your son's shoes and I can tell you he'll keep getting in trouble - as a child and as an adult for doing that. I've learned my lesson the hard way and ended up choosing my battles more carefully. He should stop doing it (if he can :) ), not out of respect for a teacher that doesn't deserve it, but to save himself from further trouble.


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19 Jun 2010, 10:43 am

Since my post got doubled I might add that in my personal experience, only incompetent and insecure people ask for respect based solely on their position of authority, since it's the only way they can get it. Competent people earn it.


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