Over focused/obsessive compulsive ADHD subtype

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MotownDangerPants
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19 Jun 2010, 11:47 am

_ Primary ADD symptoms (attentional problems, distractibility, disorganization, and impulsivity).
_ Obsessive, repetitive negative thoughts.
_ Might display compulsive behaviors.
_ Oppositional behavior.
_ Emotional rigidity.
_ Has trouble shifting from one activity to another.
_ Frequently get stuck in loops of negative thoughts or behaviors.
_ Excessive worrying, even over “little” things.
_ Inflexible and uncompromising.
_ Argumentative behavior.
_ Always wants his way.
_ Engages in ritualistic behavior.
_ Addictive Personality.

This sounds so much like Asperger's. I was DXed with ADHD hyperactive/impulsive type but this sounds MUCH more like me, except that I'm not really emotionally rigid, don't have an addictive personality and have grown out of most of the oppositional behavior. The only things they didn't mention were trouble with eye contact, trouble with empathy or relating to people, physical awkwardness and trouble with voice modulation. or a special interest but that kind of fits in with the obsessive thinking. Everything else looks very similar. Could this subtype really just be very mild AS?

I'm sure this has discussed before, sorry about that. I'd never even heard of this type of ADHD before today, it's my new obsession :D



happymusic
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19 Jun 2010, 1:45 pm

I hadn't heard of this before today, either. I was diagnosed with just ADHD, no qualifiers, and OCD, so a lot of these describe me, but I don't understand why they would have an obsessive type of ADHD when these OC symptoms describe OCD. Curious.



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19 Jun 2010, 3:09 pm

This definitely sounds a lot like me. However, I DO have sensory issues, special interests, and let's just say eye contact is not a strength. (Not something I hate, but I'm just not good at it.) If there was a further stage between this and AS, that would probably be where I'd fall.

Understanding people, and communicating with them, is something I consider a strength and other people have told me it is, so I'm pretty confident in that. Empathy I think I am pretty normal on if not hyperempathetic.

(Which makes for...um...interesting writing--I can be obsessive in my fanfic about both the characters and getting in their heads AND the worldbuilding details, almost like a bridge between the two mindsets.)

Does such a thing even exist? I'm not all that familiar with all types of ADHD or the autism spectrum, so I'm curious.


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MotownDangerPants
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19 Jun 2010, 3:21 pm

SoSayWeAll wrote:
This definitely sounds a lot like me. However, I DO have sensory issues, special interests, and let's just say eye contact is not a strength. (Not something I hate, but I'm just not good at it.) If there was a further stage between this and AS, that would probably be where I'd fall.

Does such a thing even exist? I'm not all that familiar with all types of ADHD or the autism spectrum, so I'm curious.


This is pretty much how I feel. I have more social issues than what's mentioned in this description and other very Aspie traits, but I did a little more researching and AS and this type of ADHD overlap more than I thought. People with this type can have a lot of social anxiety and many Aspie traits, just to a lesser degree.

I've found lots of information suggesting that this type of ADHD is the closest to AS and some arguments stating that it should be considered a spectrum disroder regardless. . I'm much less aggressive than what this description suggests but I definitely fit this as a child. The one KEY difference that I found describing this is that these type of ADHDers usually don't have the propensity for factual knowledge that an Aspie does. I'm a data head, always have been.

Anyway, I definitely have traits of this and AS,. I wish they would figure out what's in between. Maybe there is a kind of ADHD like this in which you dissociate with the environment more, but that's got to be about as close to AS as they can get. I usually don't care about labels but it'd be nice to know, I don't even think this type of ADHD was a diagnosis when I was young and I knew that I wasn't like most ADHDers, so at least they're making progress.



katzefrau
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20 Jun 2010, 1:45 am

MotownDangerPants wrote:
Primary ADD symptoms (attentional problems, distractibility, disorganization, and impulsivity).
_ Obsessive, repetitive negative thoughts.
_ Might display compulsive behaviors.
_ Oppositional behavior.
_ Emotional rigidity.
_ Has trouble shifting from one activity to another.
_ Frequently get stuck in loops of negative thoughts or behaviors.
_ Excessive worrying, even over “little” things.
_ Inflexible and uncompromising.
_ Argumentative behavior.
_ Always wants his way.
_ Engages in ritualistic behavior.
_ Addictive Personality.

This sounds so much like Asperger's.


minus ToM impairment which is a very key component of autism. (although the oppositional behavior might allude to theory of mind problems)

MotownDangerPants wrote:
Could this subtype really just be very mild AS?


could reside somewhere in the Broad Autism Phenotype.

see your "ASD in families" topic, especially Zonder's post.

i know someone who was diagnosed with OCD based on his extremely negative repetitive thoughts, and incidentally he fits this description to the letter. he has a very obvious hand-flap type stim when excited but otherwise doesn't come across as someone who might have AS (although he is very enigmatic and strange). he needs a lot of attention from other people and engages with them very easily (despite having been bullied and physically abused by peers very severely when in school). actually he's not that oppositional, but he does persist in feeling suffocated by the expectations of others, and is very vocal about it.


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eon
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20 Jun 2010, 2:38 am

It's really important to consider the essential features of AS, some of which lie outside ADHD (language trouble, motor impact, and emotional components, primarily).

The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome (Tony Attwood) would probably help you straighten out what you're suspecting - it spends some time talking about co-diagnosis and really explains some of the other essential features with Asperger's. Poor executive function is the big crossover. I think that ADHD alone with the executive function impairments could really result in all the traits you're listing here, with some of them quite a bit influenced or magnified by several of the AS features.


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MotownDangerPants
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20 Jun 2010, 6:48 am

eon wrote:
It's really important to consider the essential features of AS, some of which lie outside ADHD (language trouble, motor impact, and emotional components, primarily).

The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome (Tony Attwood) would probably help you straighten out what you're suspecting - it spends some time talking about co-diagnosis and really explains some of the other essential features with Asperger's. Poor executive function is the big crossover. I think that ADHD alone with the executive function impairments could really result in all the traits you're listing here, with some of them quite a bit influenced or magnified by several of the AS features.


Actually this description is pretty basic but I did some more researching and many of the core components that you mentioned do overlap with this type and other types of ADHD, even social/emotional problems and not being able to relate to others, but they usually aren't as severe and persistent. An ADHD kid will usually learn from his mistakes while an AS kid may not, but some of these VERY severe ADHDers don't learn from them either and may be in the spectrum IMO. There are many ADHD cases out there that are VERY borderline AS and probably lie somewhere in between in the two. Unless they come up with a new DX they are almost impossible to classify. "Ring of Fire" ADHD includes all of the symptoms of the other types of ADHD and includes sensory issues that can be very severe. It just depends on how many traits there are and how severe the traits are before an AS diagnosis is made in many cases. They type that least resembles AS IMO is the primarily inattentive type, many of the others can be very close depending on the individual.



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20 Jun 2010, 2:05 pm

I truly find myself wondering what I would have ended up being diagnosed with if I'd been a kid these days.

Now, where exactly does Broad Autistic Phenotype fall on the spectrum? Is that what people are diagnosed with who don't quite qualify for Asperger's?


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eon
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20 Jun 2010, 2:16 pm

When you don't "qualify" it's PDD-NOS - pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified...


Seems like anyone who doesn't have all the essential AS features would still meet some combination of other things like ADHD, OCD, social anxiety, bipolar, Tourette's, and some others... I don't really know what is the purpose of this PDD-NOS given that.


It's all just clinical inadequacy... maybe it's leftover from the days when medical science believed you could treat anything abnormal ("affliction") with some type of chemical treatment.



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20 Jun 2010, 6:09 pm

Hm...I imagine that such a diagnosis could easily have applied to me. Sounds about right for describing an in-between state.


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katzefrau
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20 Jun 2010, 11:05 pm

SoSayWeAll wrote:
Now, where exactly does Broad Autistic Phenotype fall on the spectrum?


the question is: where does autism fall within the broader autistic phenotype.

it is inclusive of ASD and relevant traits (learning & social disabilities, etc) outside of diagnosis range

see wikipedia article on heritability of autism and this brief description

new term for me - i looked it up after reading it in someone's post recently


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SoSayWeAll
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20 Jun 2010, 11:07 pm

Thank you for the clarification...still learning here. :)


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20 Jun 2010, 11:08 pm

SoSayWeAll wrote:
Thank you for the clarification...still learning here. :)


i hope we all are :)


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20 Jun 2010, 11:20 pm

That's a good way to look at it. :)


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21 Jun 2010, 1:54 am

Interesting. It definitely seems plausible given the similar traits and the evidence for genetics being a factor in ADD.

Incidentally, does anyone know why not having Asperger's is one of the diagnostic criteria for ADD?



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21 Jun 2010, 3:44 am

mcg wrote:
Interesting. It definitely seems plausible given the similar traits and the evidence for genetics being a factor in ADD.

Incidentally, does anyone know why not having Asperger's is one of the diagnostic criteria for ADD?


I suppose that is because some AS symptoms could mimic ADD symptoms