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RetNet56
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Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:25 pm

Is it true that you automatically go to hell no matter what? I've heard some people say that that is true.



CaptainTrips222
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Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:58 pm

This is actually a loaded question, just because there's so many factors. I personally don't think so. You're gonna get fifty different responses on this, but for my money, just ask for God's forgiveness and if you're genuine, there shouldn't be a problem. You could consult the Holy Bible, but you'll probably get ten different answers, some of which will contradict.



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Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:17 pm

That'd require a god first, then it'd require specifically a god that cared about that sort of thing, and then on top of that it'd require a hell to go to.


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Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:50 pm

Yes, a lie is a lie, bearing false witness is against one of the Christian Mitzvots. However believe in Christ to absolve you of sins overrides this.



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Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:11 pm

RetNet56 wrote:
Is it true that you automatically go to hell no matter what? I've heard some people say that that is true.


What hell?

ruveyn



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Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:14 pm

RetNet56 wrote:
Is it true that you automatically go to hell no matter what? I've heard some people say that that is true.


You go to Hell no matter what in a sense because only those who may stand before God in Heaven are those who have lived a perfect, sinless life. According to the Bible, only Jesus fits that description. Jesus was somewhat at an advantage--first of all, being God Himself. Conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin allowed Him to escape the inherently sinful human nature usually inherited from Adam. Jesus DID possess characteristics of humanity and could also be tempted just as other human beings can be. He could also experience pain, suffering, and death. So as a perfect, living sacrifice, He provides the atonement for sinners who believe and is proof in the resurrection of life beyond physical death.

The subject line was "If you swear to God and lie." In the OT, swearing an oath, ANY kind of oath was a very serious action. You absolutely MUST keep your promise or invoke very serious consequences and penalties upon yourself. They didn't play around with people who broke sworn promises. There is one instance of a judge or prophet of Israel who swore an oath. I THINK the specific issue was if God granted him victory in battle, he'd make a burnt offering of the first thing he saw when he returned to camp. Well, as soon as he got back to his tent, his own daughter came out his tent, and the story ends suggesting that he killed her (it doesn't say that EXPLICITLY, but it is certainly and strongly hinted at).

THAT is how seriously oaths were taken, especially oaths sworn to God Himself. In the New Testament, when Jesus is asked by whom one should swear, He says "Do not swear at all." Somehow that seemed profound, though it is fairly obvious. Another case is the sin of adultery. In order to escape the sin of adultery, a man should marry the woman he is sinning with. The OT law, in fact, does NOT prescribe death for all cases of adultery--only if the woman is engaged to be married to someone else or already married. But if a man cannot remain true to one woman or if marriage is otherwise a hindrance to his service to God, then it is best he not marry at all and remain celibate for life. Same NT principal as swearing.

If a Christian (a repentant believer in Christ) swears an oath to God to tell the truth and lies, he is NOT going to Hell because his sins are already paid for by the blood of Christ. HOWEVER, the BEST thing that person can do is confess to God that he has made an error and avoid committing such a sin ever again. If lying has caused harm to someone, he should follow his conscience in making his error right; he OUGHT to come clean (though we are probably ALL guilty of this in some way and never admit to it).

Paul wrote that he knew what was good, but failed to do it; likewise, he knew what was evil, but did it anyway. We can't live perfect lives. But if we have asked God's forgiveness in Jesus' name and believe that our sins are atoned for, we have no need to fear Hell. Jesus tells us there is only ONE unforgivable sin, and trust me--breaking an oath before God is a LOOOOOONG way from committing that sin ("denying the Holy Spirit," which simply means a deep-seated denial or ignorance of God's work through the Holy Spirit after receiving incontrovertible evidence of His intervention in the physical world, etc. If Paul had ignored his experience on the road to Damascus or attributed it to some temporary mental illness or hallucination, he'd have been guilty of this sin, for example. If you are actually WORRIED that you've committed this sin, that is clear proof that you haven't!).

Hope that helps.

And by the way, I've heard different rationalizations for why someone would automatically get a one-way, no-turning-back ticket to Hell, I've studied those thoughts against the Bible, and they are all wrong, wrong, WRONG. Suicide, for instance. And I also had a Sunday School teacher when I was a little kid tell me that if someone is an unbeliever and I don't tell them about Christ, I'm going to Hell with them. OK, exactly HOW many Christians actually talk about their faith to everyone they know? So, that's a lot of "true believers" spending eternity in damnation when they did all they were told they HAD to do by faith in Jesus. That contradicts THE central tenet of Christianity and is, therefore, false.



MissConstrue
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Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:46 pm

Yes.

Other sins includes lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, pride, greed, and pure laziness.

As it seems, many modern christians are more apt to twisting the sins into their own convenience.


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greenblue
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Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:58 pm

MissConstrue wrote:
As it seems, many modern christians are more apt to twisting the sins into their own convenience.

Yes, lust is ok, as long as it's not homosexuality.


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MissConstrue
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Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:15 pm

greenblue wrote:
MissConstrue wrote:
As it seems, many modern christians are more apt to twisting the sins into their own convenience.

Yes, lust is ok, as long as it's not homosexuality.


Yep and adultery, stealing, killing, and anything else that isn't related to homosexuality is forgiven and forgotten.


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Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:56 pm

What is a "sin"?

A sin is doing something that god doesn't approve of.

But god wants you to bare your head in church.
(No he doesn't. He wants you to cover your head)

God wants you to take your shoes off in church.
(No, he doesn't care)

God doesn't want you to eat meat on Friday.
(No he has changed his mind about that)

God wants you to only have one wife.
(No, you can have many wives and concubines as well)

God forbids you to drink wine.
(No, drinking is ok)

Will the real god please stand up?



AngelRho
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Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:51 am

What's the big deal against homosexuality? Sure, it's a sin just like the rest of them that involves sexual immorality. In fact, it is closely associated (in the Bible) with with idol worship and other pagan practices that the ancient Israelites were exposed to and forbidden to take part in. It is also contrary to natural order--male/female relationships exclusively.

HOWEVER, it is NOT a sin that can't be forgiven and overcome. If that is your biggest beef with Christianity, then you're listening to too many immature Christians that don't know what they're talking about. Homosexuality won't send you to Hell. An unfaithful, unrepentant spirit will.

Those who point fingers ought to examine their OWN lives. I may not be guilty of homosexuality, but I've got plenty of my own issues.



Asp-Z
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Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:25 am

If you do that, you say some words, then nothing happens.

And there's nothing wrong with homosexuality either.



AngelRho
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Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:27 pm

Asp-Z wrote:
If you do that, you say some words, then nothing happens.

And there's nothing wrong with homosexuality either.


If you believe nothing happens, then nothing is all you'll get.

Also, I don't mean to make this a debate about homosexuality, but in terms of attitudes towards sinful behavior and sexuality, it's just something that seems to always come up on the issue of Christianity, as though it is an inherently bigoted religion. As far as what the Bible actually says about it, homosexuality is sinful, aberrant, idolatrous behavior. To argue otherwise is to blatantly ignore what the Bible says as a matter of convenience. That's just plain fact.

Permissiveness in sexual behavior, that is, ANY sexual behavior is a cultural issue, not a Biblical one. Some of us in our culture are so accustomed to it that it seems to be a normal thing. Disproportionate representation of gays in the media also seem to encourage it, as well as the more vocal advocacy groups contributes to a distorted reality. They have made it CLEAR that Christian teachings are unwelcome in cross-culture dialog.

The TRUTH is that Christians are called to love, not to hate, regardless of the sin or the state of the unbeliever. We are called to be witnesses for Christ and to behave towards others with a loving attitude. ANYONE may become a believer, and a believer cannot be condemned to Hell.

The OP was about lying and swearing to God. Just as homosexuality isn't going to send you to Hell, neither is telling a lie or breaking an oath.



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