Thinking in your head vs Thinking with your pen and paper?

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pgd
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30 Jul 2010, 10:46 am

Is anyone keenly aware that they do better by thinking with pen and paper vs thinking in their head?

For example, did anyone find it difficult to use a dictation type machine where a mental thought is expressed verbally and recorded and discovered that they were too wordy and the dictation was too rambling/long and they found it was far better to compose something with pen and paper first (like writing a script/a letter) and then reading the script/letter into the dictation machine?

Experiences?

Is there a term or word for what this kind of behavior is actually called?



DonDud
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30 Jul 2010, 12:18 pm

I rarely think with pen and paper because I'm so much more comfortable using a computer. I love how easy it is to write out my ideas and change and form them using the computer.

In actuality though, I tend to keep everything in my head, which is a bad idea, probably. I used to make short films with a few friends in high school. For some projects, I would work out the entire storyline in my head before writing anything down. I've had entire storylines in my head for years, barely writing anything about them until I was ready to make something.



AnonymissMadchen
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30 Jul 2010, 12:35 pm

Except for math, which even the most basic stuff I have to right down, I have to think of everything. Everytime I decide to write something, I think through the whole thing and don't have enough time to write it down.

DonDud wrote:
I rarely think with pen and paper because I'm so much more comfortable using a computer. I love how easy it is to write out my ideas and change and form them using the computer.

In actuality though, I tend to keep everything in my head, which is a bad idea, probably. I used to make short films with a few friends in high school. For some projects, I would work out the entire storyline in my head before writing anything down. I've had entire storylines in my head for years, barely writing anything about them until I was ready to make something.


I write short stories, and I have the same problem with thinking up the whole storyline, although mine are usually badly formed, and than not writing them down at all for months or years.


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30 Jul 2010, 1:09 pm

DonDud wrote:
I rarely think with pen and paper because I'm so much more comfortable using a computer. I love how easy it is to write out my ideas and change and form them using the computer.

In actuality though, I tend to keep everything in my head, which is a bad idea, probably. I used to make short films with a few friends in high school. For some projects, I would work out the entire storyline in my head before writing anything down. I've had entire storylines in my head for years, barely writing anything about them until I was ready to make something.


I can't write like that - my poor Executive Function makes it overwhelming for me to try to map out a whole complex story all at once. For years, that kept me from writing, because I believed in order to write anything like a novel, it all had to be laid out in an outline, from beginning to end, before you ever actually started composing scenes and dialogue and that's just too much for my brain to juggle. What works for me is to formulate the basic premise, and the central characters and just let the scenes come to me as they will, building one on top of the other in more or less serial form.

The other reason I prefer this method is that I get to experience the story the same way a reader would, unveiled a scene at a time, which makes the process much more enjoyable, because I generally don't know what's coming until it happens. Some key plot elements may occur to me very early on, long before I actually get to the point in the story where that event takes place, but the details of the event may have changed a great deal by then, as the story itself has evolved.



poopylungstuffing
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30 Jul 2010, 2:09 pm

I am a pen/paper thinker..It is the only way that I can adequately organize my thoughts...Otherwise they are completely muddled and all over the place...My pen and paper thinking is all over the place, but at least it takes a form that I can go back over...my thoughts tend to be very piled up and jumbled together...so I need to lay them out visibly...I tend towards auditory processing difficulties...
And for the record, as far a s writing is concerned, my imagination is "broken" when it comes to thinking up the structure for stories..I can do ideas and details..but the whole beginning/middle/ending part stumps me..



pgd
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30 Jul 2010, 4:30 pm

poopylungstuffing wrote:
I am a pen/paper thinker..It is the only way that I can adequately organize my thoughts...Otherwise they are completely muddled and all over the place...My pen and paper thinking is all over the place, but at least it takes a form that I can go back over...my thoughts tend to be very piled up and jumbled together...so I need to lay them out visibly...I tend towards auditory processing difficulties...
And for the record, as far a s writing is concerned, my imagination is "broken" when it comes to thinking up the structure for stories..I can do ideas and details..but the whole beginning/middle/ending part stumps me..


----

Recall one author who said the basic outline for many stories was like a runner having to start at one end and then overcome 3 obstacles (a small hurdle, a medium hurdle, and a tall hurdle) shortly after which the storyline would end. Beginning, middle, end.

One of the most unusual storyplots I've come across is The Pilgrim's Progress book by John Bunyan where a person starts at the City of Destruction, travels through the Town of Vanity Fair, and then eventually enters Celestial City.

In good storytelling, often one or more of the characters change in the process, for example:

- A very reluctant person is forced by circumstances to step up to the plate, become involved, and assume a position of social responsibility to solve a problem for the community.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_Earth_to_the_Moon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journey_ ... _the_Earth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wizard ... (1939_film)

Some stories imply a kind of destiny for major characters, for example, the Harry Potter series.

In my view, the Star Trek stories overall illustrate good storytelling.

A good imagination is a part of good storytelling. In my view, it is more difficult to tell a good story or yarn than to provide facts only due to the idea that a fact can sometimes be boiled down to a few words but a yarn/a story consists of so much more - a giant tapestry full of everything - important things/unimportant thing - facts - lack of facts (fiction) - and so on.

There is a lot of evidence that imagination (the arts/the Muses) is housed in the right hemisphere and details (facts, etc.) are housed in the left hemisphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateraliza ... n_function

Telling a story can require a great deal of sustained thought - sustained concentration - over time (for example a movie 1.5 hours long).

Some stories come out of life experiences which can make the story telling a little easier since the story can go back to the life experiences which can provide a large part of the outline.

Some authors will go back and rewrite parts of stories years later. In the world of Broadway/theater, the gifted writers there often continually rewrite a story and test it on stage and then go with a version which has audience appeal. If part of the story or a song/whatever doesn't go over well, that part will be edited out and/or entirely rewritten until the whole thing works a little better.

Those kind of persons (my view) are very gifted craftpersons who are highly sensitive to how audiences respond to stories.

Part of my imagination I believe works almost normally but part of it works inconsistently (like a flickering neon light) at times.

I have asked myself how printed words on paper (such as vanilla ice cream) become a mental image in the brain/mind (due to my experience with the fact that the right med for me for ADHD Inattentive slightly improves my ability to read with comprehension a little - not a cure - for four hours or so).



StuartN
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30 Jul 2010, 5:20 pm

pgd wrote:
Recall one author who said the basic outline for many stories was like a runner having to start at one end and then overcome 3 obstacles (a small hurdle, a medium hurdle, and a tall hurdle) shortly after which the storyline would end. Beginning, middle, end.


I consume fiction, but know very little literary theory, so perhaps you can identify this one:

All narratives involve the interaction of three actors, the protagonist, the threat and the rescuer. These can all be identified in the example narratives you supplied.



TheDoctor82
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31 Jul 2010, 12:56 am

I get something really good in my head...and then I need to write it down ASAP because I'll forget it if I don't most likely.



pgd
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31 Jul 2010, 10:32 am

StuartN wrote:
pgd wrote:
Recall one author who said the basic outline for many stories was like a runner having to start at one end and then overcome 3 obstacles (a small hurdle, a medium hurdle, and a tall hurdle) shortly after which the storyline would end. Beginning, middle, end.


I consume fiction, but know very little literary theory, so perhaps you can identify this one:

All narratives involve the interaction of three actors, the protagonist, the threat and the rescuer. These can all be identified in the example narratives you supplied.


---

Regarding the idea of telling a story with three characters, what you wrote is, I understand how the Popeye stories are written (Popeye, Olive Oyl, and Bluto).

Popeye - the protagonist - principle character

Olive Oyl - the prize

Bluto - the threat

The Donkey Kong (Nintendo game) was based on the Popeye formula.

...

Some stories involve many characters who come from different walks of life and have different values, for example, A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens or the ballet, the Nutcracker Ballet, based on a book by E.T.A. Hoffman.



StuartN
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31 Jul 2010, 2:54 pm

pgd wrote:
Regarding the idea of telling a story with three characters, what you wrote is, I understand how the Popeye stories are written (Popeye, Olive Oyl, and Bluto).


The "actors" don't need to be characters (as in people), and could be a threat like climate change (The Day After Tomorrow), while the rescuer might be some previously unrealised personal potential (Girl Interrupted).

If anyone knows the name of this theory, please post. A counsellor was using it to discuss my difficult thoughts and dreams.