aspie women & relationships - our struggles

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i would like very much to hear from women (also men, if they would like to share, but i am seeking to explain about women's perspectives) about some of the struggles they experience in love & dating (in real life).

i would like to help people on WP to understand that aspie women do not have a free ride, and that we often also have troubles in establishing or maintaining relationships. i think that it can be helpful to bridge the gaps on WP if we have some understanding.

please, share your experiences of those things that have been difficult for you.


disclaimer: i am NOT saying that only women experience these struggles. i am just promoting the understanding that aspie women ALSO have difficulties.


i'll start:

i found it very hard that i was often judged primarily by my appearance. with some (not all) men, it mattered more about how attractive (or unattractive) i was, as opposed to being judged on my personality or accomplishments or intelligence. i felt like i had to put a lot of effort into my appearance, which was not always easy because i don't understand fashion and fads in the same way as NT women might.

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Last edited by lotusblossom on 04 Nov 2010, 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I find it hard to follow the rules of the relationships. All the affection, the intimacy, and I felt too lazy to do it all. I also had increased anxiety in my last two so my AS seemed worse. My last ex didn't like what I had on but never forced me to change out of them. He said I dressed like a granny or dressed like a teen and the fact my clothes were out of style. I just like to wear what I feel comfortable in. And I am not going to keep spending my money on clothes and spend 20 bucks on a pair of pants to stay in fashion.

Thank you so much, hyperlexian, for starting this thread!

Here’s my contribution: I’m the perfect storm of attributes one needs to never have a successful relationship. I have had different relationship incarnations in life. Mostly, up to my divorce, I went out of my way to be a people-pleaser or at least a people-deflector. It’s too intimate to me to rely on people or ask them for help, so I always did all the work in my (unhealthy) relationships, to the point where I’d lose my own identity and comfort. It’s too disheartening to me to show vulnerability, ever. I recognize that this is not just a trait in autistic people, but I think a lifetime of being misunderstood and living in a toxic sea (not just a Wrong Planet!) has contributed to it. I’m fairly sure my mother is also on the spectrum, but she has chosen a lifetime of faking (seriously, it’s like being in the interactive audience of a play, all the time), so she did not pattern relationships in a way I could learn healthy habits from.

Also, I’ve now noticed (looking back armed with an autism context) that I’m just plain acutely uncomfortable with people who need something from me beyond a certain superficial interaction (in terms of emotional needs or time commitment, I mean, because then the mask slips). Almost no one “gets” me, so I’m used to that, but if you’re in an intimate, mature relationship with a man, you need that to a certain extent. I liken it to there always being a gap, one I can’t seem to bridge.

I’m “normal” enough to pass in most circumstances, so NT men expect me to behave like NT women and they’re puzzled or just disappointed when I don’t. We all suffer from men’s expectations of us, to some extent I think; I’m also “pretty” so people expect certain behavior/status/ease because of that. I’m smart, so people expect that that means I know all the stuff they learned effortlessly about human interaction. I’m funny as hell, but with a wit that escapes most people, and that can be very unnerving to men and women, both.

I observe everyone, I get what people do in proximity to each other, it’s just completely unnatural to me and I don’t understand why they’ve built these elaborate rituals or why they work to endear people to each other.

To me, a sad part is that I love, love, *love* sex, and there’s no way for me to satisfy that need in my life. Even when I go out and “pull” (which is rare, maybe once every five years), I feel terrible afterwards. Not from any sense of guilt or disgust, but because I’m sad that I can’t maintain real relationships. That “pull” was just, in essence, a nice treat but not something I could look forward to and is just a reminder of what I’m not capable of. I’m of the age, too, where men I’d be likely to date have sexual (plumbing) problems. Yes, I’ve actually encountered this, more than once.

Additionally, someone in one of the marriage threads put it perfectly: she wished she had known before she got married that independence is not the same as autonomy, and what she really needs to feel whole is autonomy. I’m the same way. That does not make for a particularly good give-and-take relationship and when I compromise like a good girl, I end up resenting how much I have to give away.

It’s sad, but I’m not a giving person. I think I’m just defensive given my experiences, and I’m very clumsy with people’s feelings. To me, it’s much more important to be honest than anything else, and that’s not something the NTs always treasure. Being a non-giving person means this: I tend to notice faults in people right away without being able to value their good traits, which typically emerge down the road. I’m terrible at conflict resolution, because in my mind there is of course only one way to resolve things properly (I know, ridiculous, right?).

In the past I’ve idealized people who have turned out to be bad for me, much to my detriment. In my naiveté, I even married someone I would now consider a sociopath, or at the very least an extreme narcissist. That has damaged me in ways that I think I will never recover from. Therapy has never worked for me, how I pray that it would, that I would feel something from it other than, “Again? Why do I keep coming back? Nothing ever gets elucidated, nothing ever changes. I figure out all the really big things myself and then the therapists don’t think that stuff is important!” Mostly I think I just have a lot of trouble expressing myself. That, and the therapists didn’t suspect autism, ever. I grew up in a time when autism meant just Kanner’s type.

Finally, I’ve reached an age where someone’s company has to be damned intriguing in order for me to sacrifice my alone time. That’s just too much to ask of the usual person, and I know I’m a “usual” person, too, so I can’t expect other people to cater to me.

Some of these traits are distinctly autistic, I think, and the rest are most likely from how I’ve experienced and catalogued things over life.

I'm ridiculously clingy. My partner is in the military and I dread the day when they leave for deployment because I will no longer be able to function. I fall into moods where I am unsure of my partner's love for me solely because they didn't show affection (even though we were in public and my partner is both female and in the military, a clear violation of DADT). I dislike sex, kissing, intimacy that is more than holding hands and snuggling is too much for my brain to process. Yet, even though I dislike most forms of physical intimacy, I still want my partner to do those things to me. I have no concept of personal space or personal belongings. I am always on top of my partner, wearing my partner's favorite article of clothing. My partner and I have been together for two years and I still forget random tidbits about her, or I'll remember but I like hearing her tell a story so I ask even though I know she gets annoyed. I have strained relationships with most of my 'friends' and get envious whenever my partner goes out with her friends or co-workers. I feel as though my partner's friends find me odd (which I am) and discriminate against her because she's dating someone who doesn't understand social etiquette. I'm very comfortable in my relationship, almost to the point where people subtly ask me how we stay together because I, at times, exhibit mediocre hygiene and I have very little interest in wearing the latest trends. I bring home more animals than Noah brought on the arc (yet, I am in no way a hoarder because all of our animals are vetted and healthy). I'm uninterested in doing chores so my partner gets stuck with the vast majority of them. I apologize over things that I know frustrate my partner because I know I should, not because I mean it.

...In general, I suck! I'm lucky because my partner loves me unconditionally and just accepts my quirks, no matter how frustrated she gets with them.

This is pretty much how I viewed it. That and based on how I've been treated in the past, I am very wary and hesitant with my current interest. I like him, I do but I don't want to jump into a relationship just yet because I don't think we're quite at that point yet. *shrug* I wish I could write more but the words aren't coming to me. Maybe it's because I feel like someone actually may like me for who I am right now, which makes me feel really happy. ^_^

thanks for sharing your experiences! i really appreciate that you were all willing to speak up. i hope it isn't too weird if i comment to each of you. if i annoy you, just say so. i probably still wouldn't stop but at least i'll know how you feel lol


lotusblossom, i totally get the problem with chores. honestly. if my husband didn't do most of the cleaning (i do most of the cooking in exchange), our house would be very very dirty. i just can't keep up with the social expectations to 'keep house' like i'm expected to.

League_Girl, that sounds frustrating, kind of like maybe you felt a bit pressured to dress a certain way. i am so proud of you for wearing what you feel like anyways. you are one confident woman! to me, a lot of the physical affection can feel like playacting sometimes.

mv - those are some powerful experiences. you sound like you have done a great deal of reflecting and have come to a very profound understanding of who and what you are all about. i hope that you do other writing besides on WP, because i think you have some important messages to share. p.s. i was reading a book that said that 1 out of 25 people are sociopaths, so indeed you are more likely to marry a sociopath than an aspie.

Shydandelions - i think i get the clinginess. or rather, my husband gets clung to. we were never apart for more than 3 days once we got married, then i moved to a remote location and he had to stay back and do the packing. i worked for 14 to 16 hours a day because i could not bear to be alone. he came up about 3 weeks later so it wasn't so long, but it was hard. and i always got jealous of his friends too. i think your partner probably has a long list of the wonderful things you offer her!

Erisad - i am happy things are sparking up with you and your new friend! i thought a great deal about what you were saying before about the 'beauty contest we are all born into as women', and that informed my post a great deal. i had never thought of it that way. you may be young, but you definitely open my eyes.


oh and mv - you're welcome about the thread. i feel like i've been starting fires and getting irate all over the place on WP in my effort to speak up from a woman's perspective, so i thought it might be more effective to let other women speak for themselves)

Yeah, me too. ^_^

I got that idea from the "Our Bodes, Ourselves" book that I would have never known about if it weren't for Wrong Planet. I think it was Janissy who recommended it to me. Hooray for reading and enlightenment! Glad to know that I helped you out a bit.

I just try to avoid them completely.

I'm prepared to be single all my life, whether that happens or not, but there are more important things in life.

Firstly, I feel the need to say that I am surprised by how little I can relate to most of what's been said here thus far.

When I was younger (read: inexperienced and unaware of my Aspie-ness), my poor theory of mind led to some dangerous relationship situations. I was intellectually able to understand such concepts as "people are not always what they seem," but unable to put this into practice in the real world. Additionally, because I was intellectually mature growing up, the people in my life assumed that this carried over into other areas as well--that I was an adult who was fully able to take care of herself. Because of this, it was generally assumed that I knew what I was doing and was in no need of guidance or protection. This combination worked out very poorly for me. Now that I am a little older (read: have learned from experience and am aware that I lack a solid theory of mind), this is not so much of a problem, but when I was first setting out on my own (about age 17-21), it was no small issue.

Even so, I still have Aspie-based challenges in relationships.

Problems I face in forming relationships:
-Women are judged quite heavily on their appearances, including clothing, and I'm told that my fashion choices are "eccentric."
-Many are put off by my formal way of speaking.
-I make little eye contact.
-I'm not a big fan of humanity and am disinclined to meet new people.
-It takes me a long time to become anything remotely resembling comfortable around a person who is new to me.
-If I'm not comfortable with a person, I do not like them to touch me.
-Most people like people who are outgoing and spontaneous. I am neither.

Problems I face in maintaining relationships:
-I can't "connect" with people and find myself very lonely in relationships.
-My non-verbal ways of expressing affection are often not noticed or understood.
-I'm poor at intuiting people's emotional needs.
-Though I can more or less relax around the person I'm dating, I cannot relax around their friends and family. Quite simply, I'm awkward, and that makes people uncomfortable ("What's wrong with your girlfriend?").
-I keep things to myself. Which isn't to say that I'm secretive; I'm simply disinclined to offer information unless I'm asked about it (I think I've gotten better about this one since I last had a boyfriend, so it may not be as much of an issue if I date again in the future).

I'm sure there's more, but this seems rather long-winded as is, so I'll stop here.

I meant what I said on another thread (though I didn't say it well) - I really always appreciate your comments: they're always well-reasoned, well-intentioned (to my perspective) and well-researched. I especially like that you try to educate people about both the social and individual impacts of prostitution. I agree 100%.

I wish I could express myself half as well as you do, and I admire you for taking it on the chin so much from some of the less gracious and less self-reflective posters on this forum. Amen, sister!

I can relate very much to these points!

I've never dated really, but I seem to have problems "being available." If I like someone and I have an inclination that they like me too, nothing ever happens after that. I don't think the guy can ever tell I like them. I have on a couple of occasions told guys that I am interested in them, but find I mis-read their signals and they don't like me back. Now that I know I can't read the signals correctly I don't tell anyone anymore whether I like them because I am afraid of looking like an idiot. Now I have become paranoid and feel like when I have a crush on someone everyone knows (which is silly because I feel like when someone likes me they can't tell if I like them, so how everyone else could see it, I don't know) and I feel like they also know the guy doesn't like me back and I feel like an idiot because everyone can see me crashing and burning, falling for someone who so obviously (to them) has no interest in me. It makes me feel like a loser. Like I am being pitied for being the unattractive, socially lacking lassie that goes for guys she could never have. In actuallity, maybe no one can see this at all it's just how things appear to me now through the layers of pain left lingering over me from the bad experiences I've had.

I've found that my main problem has been misreading social signals. The first time a guy tried to kiss me it was a complete shock, although to most people it might have been obvious. When you're accustomed to being the freaky girl standing in the background while your friends just sparkle beautifully and you have no idea how they're doing it, it comes as a bit of a shock when someone expresses the remotest bit of interest. It's also heart breaking when good friends decide that they want more than that. One moment you had someone you were totally comfortable and happy spending time with, the next moment it feels like all of that was a lie because they were never really happy in the same way and they never will be.

Of course, when it came to the guy I was actually interested in he never thought I cared at all about any of that relationship stuff (we did eventually work out that we both liked eachother but it took a fair while... hooray for a series of drunken conversations I guess... and actually I didn't realise he was interested in me until he kissed me either).

Being in relationships... it varies. The one I've got now works because we're both very insistent on having our independence. If I've got a free evening I'm generally happy to spend it with him, but he's never got in the way of me having my own life. My last attempt at a relationship was a disaster because he wanted to take more of my life than I was willing to share with him. Occasionally I do feel like I let my boyfriend down a bit because I don't know how to dress up and be pretty like other girls do, and I know it bothers him sometimes. I guess it's another thing I've probably got to learn about.

As someone else mentioned, my lack of theory of mind led me into some dangerous situations. Too many people tried to force me into relationships and activities I didn't want and wasn't ready for, and as a result I have a hard time trusting potential suitors even to this day.

On a different note, something that I've had serious issues with is this:

People try to use me as a template for their ideal partner. It's as if they say "she's pretty enough and nice enough, I just need to change everything else about her." It's incredibly hurtful. Someone will act like they completely adore me, then go about trying to force me to be someone else. It's things like:

- "Have you ever considered growing your hair long? You'd be pretty with long hair." (Because I'm not pretty with short hair?)
- "You have a great figure, you need to wear skimpy dresses/low cut tops/etc." (Because apparently I'm not pretty if I don't look like a stereotypical female slut. I'm quite a tomboy.)
- "You should study something else. That's too manly." (I'm in an engineering field, soon to start my PhD.)
- "You shouldn't act so intelligent. It makes you unattractive."
--- often followed by "Don't act so smart in front of my friends. It makes you look bad." (what the crap?)
- "Why don't you read some romance novels? Sci-fi makes you look like a nerd." (I AM a nerd.)

There are too many to list here.

Ugh. I even had one try to convince me to drop out of school and get a minimum-wage job, presumably because he wanted a housewife. It's pathetic, insulting, and hurtful. I don't understand why they bother 'liking' me if they don't like me for who I am.

hale_bopp = that's true that there are more important things in life, and probably a healthy attitude. people's dependence on relationships is sometimes detrimental to their well-being i think. i'm totally guilty of that. i'm not going to patronize you by throwing advice at you - you've made your own decisions that work best for you, and i can respect that.

Kaybee = i like that you made a distinction between the problems in forming relationships and the problems in maintaining relationships. i understand not being a fan of people - i dislike and distrust 95% of the humans i meet. i also feel the pressure to try to be normal around my spouse's family, and i fail at it (i panic and hide in the bathroom sometimes at family gatherings). thank you for responding so thoroughly. i think many aspie women can take something from what you've written.

musicboxforever = sometimes i think that aspies struggle a lot in love situations because of what you said - the inability to "read" when a potential partner is interested. i've embarrassed myself so many times by thinking someone was attracted to me when they weren't. one time a friend explained to me that i was not always misreading, but that my timing was off somehow.

as in, sometimes it was not the right time for the guy as he was just leaving or entering a relationship, or he had a different aim in mind (LTR vs casual or vice-versa), and so on. i think our instincts are sometimes correct in flagging someone that cares for us, but there are other factors involved that are out of our control and there is no nice way for the men to reject us (i.e. they can't say to us, "right now isn't right but try back in a year" lol). but i understand how the pain of rejection can lead to retreat.

Gremmie = i've had to evade sneaky NT kisses too. i know it's just because i couldn't tell what their intentions were, but interestingly they must have been misreading my signals too. i spend a lot of time alone, and i will even lose sleep or miss work to get my 'alone time', so i can't stand when a partner requires too much socializing. it's great that you are with someone who understands your need for independence and solitude.

andriarose = that sounds disconcerting or scary to be in situations like that. i've had a couple, but i guess i blamed myself for minuderstanding the men's intentions (stupid, i know). i really like your description about how men seemed to treat you like the "template for their ideal partner". like you are some tasty cookie dough that doesn't quite fit in the cookie cutter outline so the men tried to reshape you, so that you'd be more perfectly formed according to their expections. that must have felt really frustarting.

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is it just me or do we have some amazingly well-written women on here? thanks again for sharing, and i think it's wonderful that everyone is being supportive.

I like everything in this thread and shall try to return sans headache