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Jono
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10 Nov 2010, 2:53 pm

ruveyn wrote:
DeaconBlues wrote:

Gravity, nuclear fusion, redshift, the Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction, quantum mechanics - unless you're a YEC literalist, none of it is in "contradiction" to faith; rather, it all exposes the true wonder of Creation, to the greater glory of its Creator.


One can appreciate all these natural wonders with or without a belief in God. God is irrelevant.

ruveyn


Yes, you can. Although that is the current position of the Vatican.



DeaconBlues
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10 Nov 2010, 4:11 pm

ruveyn wrote:
DeaconBlues wrote:

Gravity, nuclear fusion, redshift, the Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction, quantum mechanics - unless you're a YEC literalist, none of it is in "contradiction" to faith; rather, it all exposes the true wonder of Creation, to the greater glory of its Creator.


One can appreciate all these natural wonders with or without a belief in God. God is irrelevant.

ruveyn

True enough, and the point of one of my earlier posts, when someone was attempting to defend the concept of God in science by listing scientists with (apparently) religious beliefs (although it may be worth noting that many of them were operating in Europe and the US during the 17th-early 20th centuries, a period during which failing to mouth the shibboleths of the dominant religion could wind up in anything from being regarded as a crackpot, to being arrested, tried, and jailed for "blasphemy" in certain jurisdictions).

God is irrelevant to science, science is irrelevant to religion, and most attempts to wed the two wind up trivializing both.

The Torah (and its revisions, the Bible and the Qu'ran) was not intended as a historical text in the modern sense, nor as a scientific treatise. It's a work of philosophy, with history, legend, and fiction intermixed freely in order to promote a certain philosophy. Unfortunately, too many people try to treat it as history and science, and completely miss the philosophy, so they wind up doing the opposite of what it says to do (particularly true of the Biblical Gospels)...


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ruveyn
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11 Nov 2010, 11:31 am

Fuzzy wrote:

Atoms are NOT invisible. What the heck do you think you are looking at when you look at stuff? Atoms(protons actually). Individual atoms are simply too small for us to see directly. But thats true of molecules, viruses, bacteria and even some animals.



What we perceive is the result of photons in the visible light frequency range. Our ability to perceive light is very limited, covering only a minute pass band of the electromagnetic frequency/energy spectrum

ruveyn