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Plywood
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08 Nov 2010, 3:54 pm

I also don't like how the harder problems are extra stuff that we never even learned.



Philologos
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08 Nov 2010, 3:56 pm

Up to algebra then nothing?

Hey I very much enjoyed some areas of math through algebra [LOVED long division, and progressions]. Enjoyed plane geometry.

Beyond that - little or nothing. Never did trig, big problemsw with MINIMAL calculus, advanced algebra full of blocks.

My mind works better on languages - tried that? Math is not all.



Coldkick
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08 Nov 2010, 4:14 pm

Glad I could help Plywood, sorry you didn't get it Molly.

I'm willing to help with math if you need some. Helping through PM's would be optimal because I can mix visual graphs, proper notation etc with the description.

I will also feel like I can take the time to make something tailored to what you need help with better.



Adamantus
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08 Nov 2010, 4:29 pm

Regarding maths I always had trouble and had tutoring from about age 11-16. I passed my GCSE maths with a C grade (in Britain we have GCSE qualifications at age 16). I found the most important things are to just aim to pass. Don't worry about getting amazing results. It's clearly not your subject, you are unlikely to need it in your chosen job at more than a basic level. I know what the pain of maths is like. It's like a constant humiliation because in school it just seems like all the maths people are the smart ones so you must be stupid. But you know all those maths kids are actually thinking the opposite, wondering why they can't be at all creative, so it works both ways. I only found this out recently.

--Advise section--
I found it's helpful to forget "why" in maths. The tendency with more visual people is to look at a problem 2 x2 =4 and say but why? It doesn't make sense. Just accept that it is the answer and it'll be easier. Just trust what they say in this. After studying programming / web development for 10 years I also learned something about logic. Logic is just what is expected. When people write code they don't go, well I'll call this array ImageList because it sounds cool. You can usually assume it is a list of images. Just think in terms of expectations, I don't know whether this is applicable to algebra.

Well that's all the useful learnings I can think of, hope it helps.



billybud21
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08 Nov 2010, 4:38 pm

Plywood wrote:
I cannot figure out math at all for some reason. I also learn things but I never go out to par when I actually have to do them. Taking directions I can't do. Anything with logic I am bad at except for Chess for some reason. Is there any way to practice logic or anything that I should practice? I feel like everybody is good at math except for me. I have been stuck in the same math class for about two years...I have to finish high school but I am unteachable.


I have the same problem. Math makes absolutely no sense to me at all -- and I am married to a Mathematician! So don't worry, not everyone is good at math besides you. I can understand obscure political theory with ease, but math is a no go.


_________________
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Horus
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08 Nov 2010, 4:52 pm

Coldkick wrote:
Algebra in a nutshell.

The letters are variables.

Variables can be whatever number you choose.

If you wanted to draw a line on a graph you would say y=m*x+b

m = the slope, or however many across it takes to go up however many.

x = the horizontal position you want to find the vertical point at.

b = the starting position on the y-intercept (x=0)

Let's try y = (1/2) * x + 4

x | y
-----
1 | 4.5
2 | 5
3 | 5.5
...
100 | 54

How did I get that table? I just substituted my x variable with each of the numbers in the x column.

(1/2) * 1 + 4 = .5 + 4 = 4.5
(1/2) * 2 + 4 = 1 + 4 = 5
(1/2) * 3 + 4 = 1.5 + 4 = 5.5
(1/2) * 100 + 4 = 50 + 4 = 54




Well....i'm initially baffled :( I have a headache now, so it's not as if I really want to think about this alpha-numeric gibberish. I never even passed intro algebra after taking it twice in college. I had to opt for course substitions for the math requirments. I regret doing that, because i'll be returning to college soon and i'll need to make up the math requirements for what want I to major in (psychology). I would have to pass college algebra and stats/probability for that. I KNOW I can do that, but any spatial/non-verbal math (I DO have NLD/NVLD) might be beyond me.



Janissy
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08 Nov 2010, 5:05 pm

Horus wrote:
Coldkick wrote:
Algebra in a nutshell.

The letters are variables.

Variables can be whatever number you choose.

If you wanted to draw a line on a graph you would say y=m*x+b

m = the slope, or however many across it takes to go up however many.

x = the horizontal position you want to find the vertical point at.

b = the starting position on the y-intercept (x=0)

Let's try y = (1/2) * x + 4

x | y
-----
1 | 4.5
2 | 5
3 | 5.5
...
100 | 54

How did I get that table? I just substituted my x variable with each of the numbers in the x column.

(1/2) * 1 + 4 = .5 + 4 = 4.5
(1/2) * 2 + 4 = 1 + 4 = 5
(1/2) * 3 + 4 = 1.5 + 4 = 5.5
(1/2) * 100 + 4 = 50 + 4 = 54




Well....i'm initially baffled :( I have a headache now, so it's not as if I really want to think about this alpha-numeric gibberish. I never even passed intro algebra after taking it twice in college. I had to opt for course substitions for the math requirments. I regret doing that, because i'll be returning to college soon and i'll need to make up the math requirements for what want I to major in (psychology). I would have to pass college algebra and stats/probability for that. I KNOW I can do that, but any spatial/non-verbal math (I DO have NLD/NVLD) might be beyond me.


I can't make any sense of what Coldkick wrote. I carry a calculator in my purse so that I can do the calculations other people do in their heads. I can't tell left from right without surreptitiously wiggling my right/write hand (I remember it is my "right" hand because I "write" with it.) I absolutely have dyscalcula. Yet I aced my college statistics class. It was literally the only math class I have ever taken that made sense. Plus they let us use calculators. They let us use calculators in calculus too but that didn't help me pass because I didn't have the faintest idea what the formulae meant. But statistics made perfect, absolute sense. If I can do well in a college statistics course, you can probably get an A+.



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08 Nov 2010, 5:26 pm

Adamantus wrote:
I found it's helpful to forget "why" in maths. The tendency with more visual people is to look at a problem 2 x2 =4 and say but why? It doesn't make sense.

But it does make sense.

Image

Different people learn in different ways. I need to have a mental model for it to stick - image, action, feeling, something special that intuitively makes sense to *me*. I hate it when people try to teach me with mnemonics, I just get confused and my mind gets stuck trying to figure out what that's supposed to mean.



bubblygrl7
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08 Nov 2010, 5:41 pm

My math teacher teachers horribly. When I ask her for help she does the whole problem for me without explaining a single thing. She did the same thing when I asked her to help me open a locker.



caissa
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08 Nov 2010, 5:45 pm

I am very similar. I can do math up until Algebra and then nothing.

My whole life it's been like this-- I either know something automatically and effortlessly, or it's impossible. I was told things like "You don't like to work hard at the things you're not good at," but no amount of work makes any of it sink in. Whereas the things I can do, I never even really learned, it's like I've always known them just by thinking.

What level of math must you pass to graduate? I didn't have to take anything harder than Geometry and Algebra 1. I passed the courses with Ds and Cs. If you focus on doing well in your other classes it will even out on your GPA. I also took 2 SAT prep classes that boosted by math score by 100 points just by teaching me "tricks" about choosing the right answers. My score was still really low though.



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08 Nov 2010, 5:47 pm

Plywood wrote:
I cannot figure out math at all for some reason. I also learn things but I never go out to par when I actually have to do them. Taking directions I can't do. Anything with logic I am bad at except for Chess for some reason. Is there any way to practice logic or anything that I should practice? I feel like everybody is good at math except for me. I have been stuck in the same math class for about two years...I have to finish high school but I am unteachable.


You are putting yourself into a box. Don't do that. Not everyone is good at math. In fact, most people are not particularly adept at mathematics. Most people are deficient in formal logic but that can be cured by taking a course in logic or studying from a good text book. As will all things, practice makes the doing easier and better.

ruveyn



Last edited by ruveyn on 08 Nov 2010, 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bee33
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08 Nov 2010, 5:55 pm

Math is often taught very poorly. We are usually taught how to solve a formula but with none of the understanding that lies beneath it, so that if we can accurately memorize the steps we can come to a solution, but if at any time the memorization fails us (or we didn't internalize it in the first place), we are left without any tools to come to an understanding of how the problem should be solved.

I'm not sure how to get around that problem, since it would require in-depth study of the underlying principles, which would be a very difficult task to accomplish on one's own.

(I think Coldkick's example was clear and to the point, but lacking the understanding that it's based on might leave one perplexed.)



Coldkick
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08 Nov 2010, 6:10 pm

Maybe I need to help in a more relative fashion.

Lets see....

Ok, how about this.

You can buy apples in a store for 1 lb. @ $1.50
We can say that the total cost of the apples is 't'.
Now we also know that there is 4 apples in a pound.
If we want to know how many apples we can get for any amount of money how can we write it?

Well we know that the total value will be 't'
t=?
We also know that there is 4 apples for every pound and every pound costs $1.50
So to calculate the total cost of the apples we need to multiply the cost of one pound ($1.50) by the amount of apples we have over the amount of apples in a pound.
Proof of this is can be found quite easily. 1 lb = 4 apples. What fraction over 4 is equal to 1? The answer is 4! 4/4 = 1.
Since the amount of apples we choose to buy can be any amount we will simply call it 'a'.

total = (amount of apples you want to buy) / (amount of apples that are in a pound) * Cost of 1 lb. of apples.
t = a / 4 * 1.50


Now, lets say the most we can spend today is $10.00. How many apples can we take?
This is called finding the inverse of a function. In order to solve this we need to isolate the 'a' value; the amount of apples we want.
The first thing we can do is divide our total by 1.50 to remove it from the right hand side.
t/1.5=a/4
Next we can multiple the left side by 4 to remove it from the right hand side, leaving only the 'a' value.
t/1.5*4 = a
So now the only step left is to substitute the maximum value we can spend into 't' and solve.

10/1.5*4 = a
6.67*4 = a
26.67 = a

Since we can't have more than that value because our limit is $10.00 we have to round down, not up, also you can't have 2/3 of an apple.
So we can purchase 26 apples for $10.00


EDIT:
Just an extra note if you are into terminology.
When you round down a number to the lowest integer its called flooring a value.
If you are rounding a number up to the next whole integer its called the ceiling value.

If anyone needs some extra explaining into how and why some of the steps were performed, just send me a PM and I'll be more than glad to fill you in.



caissa
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08 Nov 2010, 7:07 pm

btw, I forgot to mention, that I too am good (not great, but better than average) at chess despite being so terrible at math and anything else logic-based.



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08 Nov 2010, 7:58 pm

On the functions:

Image

When the x value changes, the y value changes too. You can see by following the yellow line that when x is 1, y is 4.5. When x is 2, y is 5, etc.

The red number, 1/2, shows how much the y value changes when the x value changes. If x increases by 1, y increases by 1/2. if x increases by 2, y increases by 1, etc.

The blue number, 4, gets added to y no matter what. Because of that, it's easy to find - it's the value y has when x is 0.

The red & blue numbers are what makes this line different from other lines. If the red number was bigger, the function would be steeper. If it was negative, it would slope downwards. If it was 0, it would be horisontal.

The blue number shows how high the function is. Increasing or decreasing it moves the function up or down the vertical scale.

Adding some more functions for comparison:
blue: y = 1/2x + 3
pink: y = x + 4
orange: y = -1/3x + 4
green: y = -1/3x + 8

Image

See how they're similar and different?



Coldkick
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08 Nov 2010, 8:12 pm

Bluefins wrote:
On the functions:

Image

When the x value changes, the y value changes too. You can see by following the yellow line that when x is 1, y is 4.5. When x is 2, y is 5, etc.

The red number, 1/2, shows how much the y value changes when the x value changes. If x increases by 1, y increases by 1/2. if x increases by 2, y increases by 1, etc.

The blue number, 4, gets added to y no matter what. Because of that, it's easy to find - it's the value y has when x is 0.

The red & blue numbers are what makes this line different from other lines. If the red number was bigger, the function would be steeper. If it was negative, it would slope downwards. If it was 0, it would be horisontal.

The blue number shows how high the function is. Increasing or decreasing it moves the function up or down the vertical scale.

Adding some more functions for comparison:
blue: y = 1/2x + 3
pink: y = x + 4
orange: y = -1/3x + 4
green: y = -1/3x + 8

Image

See how they're similar and different?


Thanks for the extra visuals Bluefins, I'm sure that will help lots of people. :D