If an asperger's asperger obsession was social situations?

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theexternvoid
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29 Nov 2010, 11:21 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
What would happen if a deaf person obsessed about music?

He'd compose Beethoven's famous 9th sympony. :) True story: he was deaf when he wrote his greatest work.



wavefreak58
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29 Nov 2010, 11:30 am

SuperApsie wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
Of course we are not completely blind to social cues. But autistic perceptions are fundamentally different.

We are not fundamentally different, I have always felt that autistic (I had no word for this before) traits fade slowly in the population, like a gradient. Asperger's is to my opinion the visible tip of the iceberg.


I'm not sure how you can say there aren't fundamental differences given the recent evidence in things like brain scans showing NT vs Autistic processing happens in different regions of the brain for the same task


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SuperApsie
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29 Nov 2010, 12:20 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
SuperApsie wrote:
wavefreak58 wrote:
Of course we are not completely blind to social cues. But autistic perceptions are fundamentally different.

We are not fundamentally different, I have always felt that autistic (I had no word for this before) traits fade slowly in the population, like a gradient. Asperger's is to my opinion the visible tip of the iceberg.


I'm not sure how you can say there aren't fundamental differences given the recent evidence in things like brain scans showing NT vs Autistic processing happens in different regions of the brain for the same task


First CT, MRI, fMRI scanners are like binoculars to explore deep space. Brain is massively complex with multiple phenomenon and the tools we have are really the first of a kind to explore it. There are high chances what you see is poor in global significance. And we know people are not wired the same way.

Second, imaging techniques can't capture the whole essence of who aspies and NTs are, then the difference you underline is about one or a couple of specific experiments where the brain activities are different and are not enough to state a whole fundamental difference.

Then plasticity of the brain means that the location of a phenomenon in the brain is irrelevant (people with no language area in the brain can learn to speak at early age by soliciting completely different part of the brain) so the nature of the perception can't be proven radically different only by the location of where the phenomenon occurs.

Or, the very same analysis can be processed in different parts of the brain depending of the culture:
Quote:
When an American thinks about whether he is honest, his brain activity looks very different than when he thinks about whether another person is honest, even a close relative. That’s not true for Chinese people. When a Chinese man evaluates whether he is honest, his brain activity looks almost identical to when he is thinking about whether his mother is honest.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/11/neuroscience.aspx
Does it mean that either Chinese or American has a radically different perception? No honesty is still honesty and not theft, it is not a radical difference and both can relate to the concept with some cultural differences, it creates a gradient of the perception of honesty.

Finally, it is just an intuition :)


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wavefreak58
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29 Nov 2010, 12:50 pm

SuperApsie wrote:
Or, the very same analysis can be processed in different parts of the brain depending of the culture:
Quote:
When an American thinks about whether he is honest, his brain activity looks very different than when he thinks about whether another person is honest, even a close relative. That’s not true for Chinese people. When a Chinese man evaluates whether he is honest, his brain activity looks almost identical to when he is thinking about whether his mother is honest.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2010/11/neuroscience.aspx
Does it mean that either Chinese or American has a radically different perception? No honesty is still honesty and not theft, it is not a radical difference and both can relate to the concept with some cultural differences, it creates a gradient of the perception of honesty.


But it is NOT the same analysis. It is the same question answered within the framework of two different conceptualizations of self. The analysis takes place within the conceptualization and hence must always be different.

I'm thinking this discussion could turn into a thread hijack, as fascinating as it might be, so I'm going to leave it as "hmm ... very interesting thoughts on your part"


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SuperApsie
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29 Nov 2010, 2:24 pm

Your remark was good. And you might be right :) we can just speculate with no definitive answer.

To bounce back on the social situations as a special interest, I'll take the quote from ediself from another tread you opened Autism as an altered state of consciousness, conscious and social situations are closely related:

ediself wrote:
behaving in an NT manner does not make me more content with my consciousness, it makes me mad at them for being so unperceptive and easily fooled, which in turn makes me feel like a fool for playing their game.

Some people have asked what it would be if an aspie would learn and master social behaviors.

I think this is very true as a first consequence: you need to melt your aspie traits into your behavior to make it coherent on the long run. You will enjoy friends and "normal" relations. But no matter how good you are, it will take a very long time of conscious efforts to make some traits disappear*. This might root into you the poisoning idea that you are with people that don't fully understand you.

Also as a second consequence and more grave consequence, all the skills you studied and gathered (remember: psychology, axiology, sociology... football enjoyment) to make yourself a better socializing person will give you an unnaturally deep insight into who they really are.

The combination of you feeling not fully understood AND you knowing people more than you should do AND ALSO discovering what are the mainstream values in our societies creates an explosive mixture. (Imagine a mix between Tantalus + Cassandra punishments)

So, I went through that, it started to slide, it blew and I left everything and everyone (hurt) behind (I left my country) where I thought I could restart and see what was wrong. Of course the same patters emerged and went to live in solitude avoiding and sabotaging any new attempt of socialization hoping I would become the way when I was a child. I felt happy again.

So after 8 years of relative solitude: hello Asperger's and here I am (I should have read the autism section in the library instead of listening to the mainstream definition, yes I know :evil: )

Moral of the story:
- Is it worth to put some effort into trying to become more social?
Definitely YES. It would not hurt if aspies learned some social behavior just to communicate between them :P

- But won't I end like you hating the NT people?
I do not hate the NT people! I overreacted on my special interests, I think I went too deep in the theory, I was unaware of Asperger's at the time of my progression in the social world and it caused damage. What kept me sane and safe was: I'm right, they are wrong

- What now?
I met Adam_Raki and I saw that I could speak freely. I gave him an insight of what is happening in my head and I felt understood for the first time of my life. And I start to know myself better thanks to all of you.

To conclude, society, friends are important, but what we really starve for, is understanding


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ediself
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29 Nov 2010, 2:29 pm

how can you understand me so well and never tell me about it ? :lol:



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29 Nov 2010, 2:36 pm

ediself wrote:
how can you understand me so well and never tell me about it ? :lol:

Are you another lost clone of mine? :D
At least don't tell me you're interested in AI: I won't believe in the theory of chaos anymore.

So we are 3 now: You, Adam_Raki and Me


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mandraq
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29 Nov 2010, 3:11 pm

new here! first post.

In highschool, because of my lack of friends I decided that I just couldn't live like that. I decided that I would try to create myself a social life analytically. It worked. I befriended people that would be dependent on me for some reason or another, meaning our friendship would be formed out of social circumstance more than anything else. I found a somebody that lived close to me and had just got a car at the same time I did, by the beginning of 12th grade. School was a bit far out so we car pooled and many times 'raced'(or just f****d around with our cars) to school. He had a great social circle that played alot of poker. I was great at poker so I was accepted. As long as I kept to myself most of the time I would do fine. I was confused as to why some of these people would befriend me so much, but I appreciated it. When I moved to college, I didnt know barely anyone but a few friends. I knew their friends smoked weed so I decided I would just keep myself stocked on weed and the friendships would naturally form. Thankfully they did. All ive learned was that usually less is more, and somehow if you are of use to people they just fill in the blanks with positives. During 11th and 10th grade I read a lot of psychology books too, and at one point decided I would give psychology a try as a profession, but after my first college course in it I hated the subject, couldnt really say why at that point.


Now I just recently found out I might have aspergers. Shortly thereafter I also found out that my father had aspergers, from himself. Part of me wants to deny that I have it, another part cant help but look at the evidence in front of me.



ediself
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29 Nov 2010, 3:36 pm

SuperApsie wrote:
ediself wrote:
how can you understand me so well and never tell me about it ? :lol:

Are you another lost clone of mine? :D
At least don't tell me you're interested in AI: I won't believe in the theory of chaos anymore.

So we are 3 now: You, Adam_Raki and Me


haha no you can keep your belief, that's not one i wish to shake , i find the subject very interesting but it has never been a focus of mine. i doubt i can be anyone's clone though, i am totally inconsistent. i evade myself. i have an identity ,clearly defined, but i can go from thoughtful to halfwit in a matter of seconds :D You seem quite consistently smart.



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29 Nov 2010, 6:43 pm

As a kid, one of my special interests was humor/jokes. I watched every comedy I could on tv and had read and re-read my joke books so many times I had them practically memorized and had a joke for every situation. To onlookers I probably looked quite normal, even popular, but such an obsession obviously wanes and the facade can't carry a person through adolescence/adulthood.



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29 Nov 2010, 7:02 pm

ediself wrote:
SuperApsie wrote:
ediself wrote:
how can you understand me so well and never tell me about it ? :lol:

Are you another lost clone of mine? :D
At least don't tell me you're interested in AI: I won't believe in the theory of chaos anymore.

So we are 3 now: You, Adam_Raki and Me


haha no you can keep your belief, that's not one i wish to shake , i find the subject very interesting but it has never been a focus of mine. i doubt i can be anyone's clone though, i am totally inconsistent. i evade myself. i have an identity ,clearly defined, but i can go from thoughtful to halfwit in a matter of seconds :D You seem quite consistently smart.

It was a kind joke :) I am still amazed how here we all think the same way. We don't have the same opinions, we were not raised in the same culture, we do not look like each other, yet something deeper is extremely similar.
I'm not smart, when I read a post, I read it as if it was me who just wrote it. Then I realize the differences between what was written and what I should have written, I load my imaginary world as a simulation to find how I could come to what is written, I pace a bit. Et voila!
Aspie powers :wink:

mandraq wrote:
I would give psychology a try as a profession, but after my first college course in it I hated the subject, couldnt really say why at that point.

I think you got bored of the education system, and with psychology, you needed to go through tons of boring and outdated theories for years before reaching the first practical use.

mandraq wrote:
Now I just recently found out I might have aspergers. Shortly thereafter I also found out that my father had aspergers, from himself. Part of me wants to deny that I have it, another part cant help but look at the evidence in front of me.

You should take some time to read the forum, taking a few tests before you draw a conclusion. Asperger's is not like a bad spell you recieve when you realize it. So if you think you are on the spectrum, what you will get is a new perspective, solutions and a place to ask questions for some practical problems you had since you were born and you did not know about.

mandraq wrote:
new here! first post.

So Welcome on the wrong planet :D


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