Psychopathy, Asperger's: a 'serious' combination

Page 4 of 6 [ 84 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

ediself
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Oct 2010
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,202
Location: behind you!!!

17 Dec 2011, 6:31 am

fraac wrote:
Depends. I can read nonverbals better than anyone I've met but I guess it isn't the same mechanism most people use. If your kid is exposed to enough harm early so that he needs to learn to read people, he will.

That's actually true. But you learn to read only the manifestation of incoming trauma that is the same you've been through.... For instance I could real sexual intentions in men from the age of maybe 7 or 8, and knew not to put myself in harm's way in that respect.
It didn't teach me much about anything else though.
Bullying taught me not to assume anyone liked me, but didn't teach me to recognise a "real friendly behaviour" from a fake one. It only taught me to avoid people who seemed friendly lol........



fraac
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,865

17 Dec 2011, 6:52 am

I always thought it was an autistic thing to know the difference between real and fake. I still think it is but I'm not sure why so many don't get or don't use the information.



The_Perfect_Storm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,289

17 Dec 2011, 11:48 am

ediself wrote:
fraac wrote:
Depends. I can read nonverbals better than anyone I've met but I guess it isn't the same mechanism most people use. If your kid is exposed to enough harm early so that he needs to learn to read people, he will.

That's actually true. But you learn to read only the manifestation of incoming trauma that is the same you've been through.... For instance I could real sexual intentions in men from the age of maybe 7 or 8, and knew not to put myself in harm's way in that respect.
It didn't teach me much about anything else though.
Bullying taught me not to assume anyone liked me, but didn't teach me to recognise a "real friendly behaviour" from a fake one. It only taught me to avoid people who seemed friendly lol........


What were the signs? I mean I find it hard to imagine there are heaps of men out there preying after children (hopefully). How do they approach it anyway?



ediself
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Oct 2010
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,202
Location: behind you!!!

17 Dec 2011, 12:51 pm

The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
ediself wrote:
fraac wrote:
Depends. I can read nonverbals better than anyone I've met but I guess it isn't the same mechanism most people use. If your kid is exposed to enough harm early so that he needs to learn to read people, he will.

That's actually true. But you learn to read only the manifestation of incoming trauma that is the same you've been through.... For instance I could real sexual intentions in men from the age of maybe 7 or 8, and knew not to put myself in harm's way in that respect.
It didn't teach me much about anything else though.
Bullying taught me not to assume anyone liked me, but didn't teach me to recognise a "real friendly behaviour" from a fake one. It only taught me to avoid people who seemed friendly lol........


What were the signs? I mean I find it hard to imagine there are heaps of men out there preying after children (hopefully). How do they approach it anyway?


Oh, I only knew because I had been molested before so I knew the "vague weirdness feeling". I had a radar after that, a friend of my parent's once opened the door to me when I was 11 or 12, he said his wife was out but to come in, he went to sit on the couch and patted the couch for me to come sit next to him. I was still at the door, I said I had something super important to do that I had forgotten about, and ran away. It was just the look on his face, nothing specific I could tell you to teach you how they "operate".
They were all either family members telling me that this was "normal but secret", or as you saw, family friends trying to get me alone.
And they generally approach it as a game. Once they get you to play it the first time, the shame of having "willingly" (or so you think) participated makes you protect the secret for them.



The_Perfect_Storm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,289

17 Dec 2011, 2:47 pm

ediself wrote:
Oh, I only knew because I had been molested before so I knew the "vague weirdness feeling". I had a radar after that, a friend of my parent's once opened the door to me when I was 11 or 12, he said his wife was out but to come in, he went to sit on the couch and patted the couch for me to come sit next to him. I was still at the door, I said I had something super important to do that I had forgotten about, and ran away. It was just the look on his face, nothing specific I could tell you to teach you how they "operate".
They were all either family members telling me that this was "normal but secret", or as you saw, family friends trying to get me alone.
And they generally approach it as a game. Once they get you to play it the first time, the shame of having "willingly" (or so you think) participated makes you protect the secret for them.


Somehow I think I know what you mean.



TellEmSteveDave
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 274
Location: Night Vale

17 Dec 2011, 6:56 pm

I don't think there's any direct connection between psychopathy and Aspergers.

At school I was bullied by a group of people who had psychopathic traits inc. a complete lack of empathy and a sadistic nature, they enjoyed torturing animals and watching videos of people suffering and dying. Some of them were neo-nazis and drew swastikas everywhere. A few of these bullies were autistic but most of them were NT, either way I hope I never see any of them again! :roll:



GnothiSeauton
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 128
Location: Toronto

31 Jan 2013, 4:13 pm

As a 10 year old kid, during the summer months I started hunting frogs and then would release them back to the pond at the community garden my mother was a member of.

The neighbour next plot over noticed that and showed me something that stuck in my mind and definitely affected my behaviour (btw, he was a well respected police officer and a WWII veteran). He would grab a frog by its hind legs, set its head on a flat stone and smash it with another rock with a quick move. Then using a knife he would cut off the upper torso including the arms, remove the viscera and innards, skin the bottom part and then pass such prepared amphibian to me for roasting on the grill that my mother was using at that time. He did the same to 6 more frogs I caught while I would look on with some degree of fascination. He would toss the "inedible" parts back to the pond then, where the local fishing enthusiasts bred pike fish. The ensuing frenzy was quite a thing to watch and the large sized frogs were quite a treat.

The following school year my mother entrusted me with money to pay for lunches on a monthly basis. I chose to spend that money on books that would interest me and sustained my diet on roasted frog legs that I would prepare and stash in advance. Suffice to say I carried this procedure unnoticed for years, until I got sick and tired of eating my own version of "French cuisine".

My mother was obliviously happy thinking I'm "properly" fed, the pike fish were happy with a free treat, the local fishing enthusiasts were happy with well fed pike fish and I had a load of books, which I would eventually pass on to some of my poorer class mates. Perhaps the only victims here were the several thousand frogs I passed through my digestive system, though every following year there seemed to be more and more frogs at the pond (I suspect some natural selection connection here as the quicker and more agile ones would escape my clumsy clutches, obviously increasing the offspring's ability to escape the natural predators in the pond).

Someone might think my adolescent behaviour would fit into the AsPD, yet I didn't feel any pleasure in the killing and preparation of the frogs. I treated it as a necessity in order to feed myself and increase my library.

When a few decades later I spoke of this to my mother she was genuinely surprised and told me I should have simply asked her for the money for books (my room looked like and was used as book storage anyway, so she never noticed any increase in the number of volumes). To this day I don't properly know how to feel about the whole hunting/fraud/sharing/feeding experience.

It certainly helped me with my reflexes, eye-hand coordination and fed my obsessive need to read (the books were mostly fantasy and science-fiction, which are the only type of fiction that I can stomach). I don't feel any urge to kill frogs or any other animals for that matter, but if forced to hunt for food I would certainly have no compunctions about it. All I can say is that it allowed me to grow up in my own way.

Yet if for comparison we were to substitute the frogs with humans or the product of human labour, the pike fish with let's say any type of human scavenger whose life or skills could be used in the future, the fishing enthusiasts as friendly and appreciative benefactors of my efforts and the books as tools of power/responsibility that I can eventually pass onto the less fortunate, what would that make me then? A monster, a politician (too often these two are the same), a businessman or simply a human being surviving in the human world?

I think the perceptual difference between AsPD and Asperger's lies simply in how we arrive at our conclusions about the world we live in.

P.S.
Paragraphing is definitely the way to go. Dyslexia is definitely a burden when forming your thoughts on paper/screen when you feel you have to pour out as quickly as possible. I often find myself fixing sentences hours after finishing them. Hope the reviewed format helps a bit.



Last edited by GnothiSeauton on 31 Jan 2013, 4:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Magnanimous
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 5 Nov 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 292
Location: London

31 Jan 2013, 4:25 pm

GnothiSeauton wrote:
As a 10 year old kid, during the summer months I started hunting frogs and then would release them back to the pond at the community garden my mother was a member of. The neighbour next plot over noticed that and showed me something that stuck in my mind and definitely affected my behaviour (btw, he was a well respected police officer and a WWII veteran). He would grab a frog by its hind legs, set its head on a flat stone and smash it with another rock with a quick move. Then using a knife he would cut off the upper torso including the arms, remove the viscera and innards, skin the bottom part and then pass such prepared amphibian to me for roasting on the grill that my mother was using at that time. He did the same to 6 more frogs I caught while I would look on with some degree of fascination. He would toss the "inedible" parts back to the pond then, where the local fishing enthusiasts bred pike fish. The ensuing frenzy was quite a thing to watch and the large sized frogs were quite a treat. The following school year my mother entrusted me with money to pay for lunches on a monthly basis. I chose to spend that money on books that would interest me and sustained my diet on roasted frog legs that I would prepare and stash in advance. Suffice to say I carried this procedure unnoticed for years, until I got sick and tired of eating my own version of "French cuisine". My mother was obliviously happy thinking I'm "properly" fed, the pike fish were happy with a free treat, the local fishing enthusiasts were happy with well fed pike fish and I had a load of books, which I would eventually pass on to some of my poorer class mates. Perhaps the only victims here were the several thousand frogs I passed through my digestive system, though every following year there seemed to be more and more frogs at the pond (I suspect some natural selection connection here as the quicker and more agile ones would escape my clumsy clutches, obviously increasing the offspring's ability to escape the natural predators in the pond). Someone might think my adolescent behaviour would fit into the AsPD, yet I didn't feel any pleasure in the killing and preparation of the frogs. I treated it as a necessity in order to feed myself and increase my library. When a few decades later I spoke of this to my mother, she seemed genuinely surprised and told me I should have simply asked her for the money for books (my room looked like and was used as book storage anyway, so she never noticed any increase in the number of volumes). To this day I don't properly know how to feel about the whole hunting/fraud/sharing/feeding experience. It certainly helped me with my reflexes, eye-hand coordination and fed my obsessive need to read (the books were mostly fantasy and science-fiction, which are the only type of fiction that I can stomach). I don't feel any urge to kill frogs or any other animals for that matter, but if forced to hunt for food I would certainly have no compunctions about it. All I can say is that it allowed me to grow up in my own way. Yet if for comparison we were to substitute the frogs with humans or the product of human labour, the pike fish with let's say any type of human scavenger whose life or skills could be used in the future, the fishing enthusiasts as friendly and appreciative benefactors of my efforts and the books as tools of power/responsibility that I can eventually pass onto the less fortunate, what would that make me then? A monster, a politician (too often these two are the same) or simply a human being surviving in the human world? I think the perceptual difference between AsPD and Asperger's lies simply in how we arrive at our conclusions about the world we live in.


... Whoa.
THAT is pretty damned awesome.
But might I advise you use the "Enter" key every once in a while. Paragraphing makes for easier reading.

I wish someone had taught me how to kill wildlife and eat it when I was younger. Maybe then I wouldn't have needed to move to the city.



Rascal77s
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

31 Jan 2013, 5:15 pm

Why is this topic such a debate? Does everyone assume that ASD kids all grow up with a nice caring family who live out in the suburbs behind a nice white picket fence? You see the ones on youtube who had crying parents desperate for a cure for their kids. You don't see the ones with scars from a belt and cigarette burns all over their body, or worse. Nature gives you one, nurture gives you the other.



Magnanimous
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 5 Nov 2012
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 292
Location: London

31 Jan 2013, 5:35 pm

Rascal77s wrote:
Why is this topic such a debate? Does everyone assume that ASD kids all grow up with a nice caring family who live out in the suburbs behind a nice white picket fence? You see the ones on youtube who had crying parents desperate for a cure for their kids. You don't see the ones with scars from a belt and cigarette burns all over their body, or worse. Nature gives you one, nurture gives you the other.

Pretty much the recurring story behind half the murders out there: Society sh!ts on them. They sh!t on society. Society wonders why the f**k it happened, and resumes sh!tting.

... Bloody mundies... so stuck up their own arses.



MPython
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 7

31 Jan 2013, 7:12 pm

Could be completely off topic, but thought I'd throw this in....

Diagnosed many years ago with a whole lot of different things, one of them being "psychopathic anti-social behavioral problems" and sectioned many times in psych unit for same.

I kept telling them that I was not anti-social, just frightened of things, and I had an imaginary black wolf as my protector to boot.

This went on uncontested for 20 years.....

Until a shrewd and intelligent psychologist asked me if I knew what Aspergers Syndrome was three years ago. I had no idea and it took her six months to convince me to get an assessment at a specialist clinic. I was diagnosed with AS in my first appointment. I have also since been diagnosed with ADHD and am on dex which makes a HUGE difference.

Go figure.



rpcarnell
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 332

31 Jan 2013, 7:59 pm

I know who has psychopathy and Aspergers at the same time:

Image


_________________
Your Aspie score: 163 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 50 of 200


hadapurpura
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 May 2005
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 674

31 Jan 2013, 8:46 pm

I don't think psychopathy makes a nice combination with anything.



Jasmine90
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 286

01 Feb 2013, 1:06 am

I don't think Dahmer was autistic. He was very manipulative and cunning and on some sociological level, he was a genius. He had the ability to influence thoughts, he convinced a police officer that he was a relative of one of his victims... I've seen many interviews and documentaries about Dahmer and he has almost normal characteristics... He could easily have passed for someone without any mental illnesses or brain disorders whatsoever. He always seemed eerily coherent.

@ rpcarnell: LOL, you are so right there!



Skannerz22
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 25 Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 2

26 Apr 2013, 6:13 pm

Everyone is so divided...

I was diagnosed high functioning asperger after they previously were going to diagnose bipolar and previously before that they had no f*****g idea


my conclusion from memories of my dad calling me pure evil, satan, devil and how my mum calls me greedy, inconsiderate, selfish, ungrateful, rude, claiming I don't care about anyone


how it is

I looked at the psychopath check list.. I have all of them


To understand how you can be both psychopath and aspergers you have to stop thinking they are opposites

And start thinking

One may be active some time while the other takes over the other time

It switches

Rather than invalidates its self

how a lot of psychopaths lie

And a lot of aspergers tell the truth


I tell the truth in order to get sympathy


collect information about humans who screw you other

Use it against them towards other humans who were a neutral stance about them

It's not about lieing


Truth is more powerful then the biggest lie

Because there is no way to I validate the truth


It is flawless

It is superior

so much that people begin to think you actually were

You are all morons

you have to do more research on aspergers and psychopath


I did a test at school to which jobs best fit me

Both jobs for psychopaths and aspergers came up on the computer at the end result


you don't just rule that as a coincidence

Eventually you just end up with thousands of events you called a coincidence because of you being naive


my dad and his mum I see the aspergers comes from

Where I see psychopath is from my mum

Both of which are hereditary if you did more research you would find such thing possible


Manipulation with truth.. you are inferior and can not comprehend it I don't expect a ant to understand what made the tree grow


socially

Sometimes I want to say something verbally but can't aspergers..


Other times I just say what ever and it just seemed to fit with what ever they were saying.. That's glibness from psychopath


BASICALY

who
Cares

Really

Why does it matter


the only reasoning as to why anyone would want to make psychopath official by saying ASPD is to discriminate

Are you saying you are a discriminator

what does it say about you to discriminate against aspergers and psychopaths


They say aspergers don't understand and psychopaths don't care


If you are the "normal" what is it to you if they have a reason as to why they do stuff and you have no reason


what's your excuse for discrimination =D


also cats like clown cars


example of jobs I had on the computer test they did at school

Architect

Car salesmen

CEO

Vet

draftsman

Cabinet maker

example of what it is to have both aspergers with psychopath


Also I have no emotions ATM if you think I did I don't

I guess it's just me thinking I am better to want to say this stuff




They originally around age 8 or something

They claim I had severe ADHD with OCD and


Later at 16. They were confused and wanted to call me bipolar

Instead claimed I had aspergers

The fact they got confused multiple different people confused at me

I also did stuff that would be crimes

I am 21


When I was at school

I got bullied

I didn't react

UNTILL they laughed then I punched ten or threw a chair at their head =D

The unique combination I have of psychopathic aspergers

I tend to lure in other psychopaths

I know straight away sometimes they admit it


...some got annoyed how they fell for my trap


=D Internet


aspergers people are good people

Psychopaths are evil

I am both good and evil

Somedays I am 1 of the two

Others I am both at the same time I would...


Kick a dog for no reason that it was annoying me and didn't care then hug it saying sorry and give it a treat

And do it again some other time


burn ants and rip their legs apart one time a worm came out D:


Other times feed ants





It's sooo complicated


your inferior brain can't comprehend it


if my mum is yelling at me eventually the stress tolerance of psychopath is overwhelmed by aspergers emotions and I break down and cry and my brain has crashed I can't respond


If my dad is yelling at me I want to murder him but having aspergers it is calculated as illogical instead I suddenly just.. Yell at him out of nowhere I had no thoughts has nothing just blank and I am yelling really loudly and no idea why


you have no idea what it is like


How s**t my life has been because of this


how people seem to think I care about what they have to say


I can be manipulated by kindness this is a weakness of aspergers


where as if someone has Been mean to me frequently I am really evil to them

It is possible to have both

if you want to do a simple way of understanding it


Chaotic neutral


It's just


Two words

It sums up everything

this is for inferior humans who can't comprehend how complex it is


When trained doctors are getting confused at me

Then it's very complex


Only other psychopaths

Or other people with autism/aspergers actually can truly understand me


both get confused at times as to why I do some things

it's a terrible way of explaining

there is things in ADHD that is not part of psychopath or aspergers


so detailed way is I am psychopath with aspergers and ADHD


Officially I am ADHD, OCD, odd, aspergers it is..wrong.. But it keeps people satisfied to give a reason why I do stuff so

I don't care



Raziel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,612
Location: Europe

27 Apr 2013, 2:41 am

alexptrans wrote:
What do you guys think about this article?


I belief it's true.

But I also think it's tricky to diagnose people you never met.


_________________
"I'm astounded by people who want to 'know' the universe when it's hard enough to find your way around Chinatown." - Woody Allen