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ikorack
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27 Dec 2010, 2:41 pm

Meh, I would prefer the ethnicities in works remained as they where made when adapted into a film from a literary work or whatever. Although the Norse gods(excluding Loki) would most likely always be white.



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28 Dec 2010, 7:12 am

Lecks wrote:
CaramelCookie wrote:
How many times have white people made black characters white in movies?? Countless!

Yup, and each and every time it's been done it was horrible and a bad idea. This is no different.


Seconded. Just because people of european decent have been given roles they don't belong in doesn't mean people of african descent should be given roles they don't belong in.

I wouldn't call this racism as it isn't motivated by hate or delusions of superiority, rather it is another of a plethora of examples of political correctness causing people to lose touch with reality.

In this day in age it is easy to discern the twists and turns of plots and stories by asking yourself two things:

1: What is the target demographic? (As stereotyping is still more potent than even political correctness.)

and 2: What is the politically correct way to do things?

And this is sad.



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28 Dec 2010, 3:09 pm

Tensu wrote:
Lecks wrote:
CaramelCookie wrote:
How many times have white people made black characters white in movies?? Countless!

Yup, and each and every time it's been done it was horrible and a bad idea. This is no different.


Seconded. Just because people of european decent have been given roles they don't belong in doesn't mean people of african descent should be given roles they don't belong in.

I wouldn't call this racism as it isn't motivated by hate or delusions of superiority, rather it is another of a plethora of examples of political correctness causing people to lose touch with reality.

In this day in age it is easy to discern the twists and turns of plots and stories by asking yourself two things:

1: What is the target demographic? (As stereotyping is still more potent than even political correctness.)

and 2: What is the politically correct way to do things?

And this is sad.


Where PC affects historical accuracy or verisimilitude, it should be left out. None of the Norse gods were black, so why make one be black? Ridiculous. Hollywood has quite enough issue with getting stories right without confusing the issue by swapping all the races around. No doubt we can expect to see a new version of Pearl Harbour where Admiral Tojo is played by Samuel L Motherfuckin Tora Tora Tora Jackson, and Roosevelt by Jet Li. (Which would still be better than the version they already made, but that's not the point. )


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28 Dec 2010, 3:44 pm

Let's see someone make cheapening Hindu gods as action figures with Morgan Freeman playing Krishna, Brad Pitt playing Balrama, and Jet Li playing Vishnu and watch the defenders of this movie howl in protest at the insensitivity.

One complaint is that were it reversed then you'd have Rev. Al and company screaming a fit. For example, a remake of Blade with Van Dam or Jet Li as Blade. Maybe they'd let that slide since it's a silly comic (which "Thor" is not). How about a fictional story loosely based on the life of Louis Armstrong with a caucasian trumpeter as the protagonist? What about a movie based on traditional African folk tales and myths with caucasians portraying the characters? I think that Rev. Al & co. would find that disrespectful to the African culture.

Some people are offended at this because they honestly believe in these gods and worship them just as Christians worship Christ, and weren't too happy with the comic book to begin with. These gods have physical descriptions in the myths, and Heimall is the palest of all the gods, Thor is a red head, etc. (They are not like the Christian god and aren't able to take on any form. Most pre-conceived notions you have about what a god is probably only apply to the Christian god.) So to them it'd be as disrespectful as Mel Gibson casting Jackie Chan as Christ in "The Passion" would have been to Christians.

Others are offended because they value European cultures, which is why it's not just a silly comic; it's based on an important European culture. They observe that in a multi-cultural society, every culture is expected to be respected except European cultures, which are socially acceptable to trash. Focus on the bad things European explorers did and never the good, but never speak of the bad things done in other cultures. Feel free to denounce Christianity, but don't dare say anything negative about Islam, etc. Though this movie doesn't overtly trash a European culture, it does cheapen it and is more visible than the worse attacks due to being a massive international movie production.



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28 Dec 2010, 4:17 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Actually, I would argue that what they are doing is using Political Correctness to justify racism towards whites.

Even worse. I vilify political correctness, which is a demonic cancer in our society that instills fear and represses free expression, and reverse-discrimination is bad as well.


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28 Dec 2010, 4:31 pm

theexternvoid wrote:
Let's see someone make cheapening Hindu gods as action figures with Morgan Freeman playing Krishna, Brad Pitt playing Balrama, and Jet Li playing Vishnu and watch the defenders of this movie howl in protest at the insensitivity.

One complaint is that were it reversed then you'd have Rev. Al and company screaming a fit. For example, a remake of Blade with Van Dam or Jet Li as Blade. Maybe they'd let that slide since it's a silly comic (which "Thor" is not). How about a fictional story loosely based on the life of Louis Armstrong with a caucasian trumpeter as the protagonist? What about a movie based on traditional African folk tales and myths with caucasians portraying the characters? I think that Rev. Al & co. would find that disrespectful to the African culture.

Some people are offended at this because they honestly believe in these gods and worship them just as Christians worship Christ, and weren't too happy with the comic book to begin with. These gods have physical descriptions in the myths, and Heimall is the palest of all the gods, Thor is a red head, etc. (They are not like the Christian god and aren't able to take on any form. Most pre-conceived notions you have about what a god is probably only apply to the Christian god.) So to them it'd be as disrespectful as Mel Gibson casting Jackie Chan as Christ in "The Passion" would have been to Christians.

Others are offended because they value European cultures, which is why it's not just a silly comic; it's based on an important European culture. They observe that in a multi-cultural society, every culture is expected to be respected except European cultures, which are socially acceptable to trash. Focus on the bad things European explorers did and never the good, but never speak of the bad things done in other cultures. Feel free to denounce Christianity, but don't dare say anything negative about Islam, etc. Though this movie doesn't overtly trash a European culture, it does cheapen it and is more visible than the worse attacks due to being a massive international movie production.


I'm of largely German ancestry, with a bit of Swedish, and so I know for a fact that my ancestors worshiped northern gods like Thor/Donar/Thunor, and Odin/Wodan/Oden. But I still say this is just a tempest in a tea pot. It is just a comic book, fer crimmony sake!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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28 Dec 2010, 6:02 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
theexternvoid wrote:
Let's see someone make cheapening Hindu gods as action figures with Morgan Freeman playing Krishna, Brad Pitt playing Balrama, and Jet Li playing Vishnu and watch the defenders of this movie howl in protest at the insensitivity.

One complaint is that were it reversed then you'd have Rev. Al and company screaming a fit. For example, a remake of Blade with Van Dam or Jet Li as Blade. Maybe they'd let that slide since it's a silly comic (which "Thor" is not). How about a fictional story loosely based on the life of Louis Armstrong with a caucasian trumpeter as the protagonist? What about a movie based on traditional African folk tales and myths with caucasians portraying the characters? I think that Rev. Al & co. would find that disrespectful to the African culture.

Some people are offended at this because they honestly believe in these gods and worship them just as Christians worship Christ, and weren't too happy with the comic book to begin with. These gods have physical descriptions in the myths, and Heimall is the palest of all the gods, Thor is a red head, etc. (They are not like the Christian god and aren't able to take on any form. Most pre-conceived notions you have about what a god is probably only apply to the Christian god.) So to them it'd be as disrespectful as Mel Gibson casting Jackie Chan as Christ in "The Passion" would have been to Christians.

Others are offended because they value European cultures, which is why it's not just a silly comic; it's based on an important European culture. They observe that in a multi-cultural society, every culture is expected to be respected except European cultures, which are socially acceptable to trash. Focus on the bad things European explorers did and never the good, but never speak of the bad things done in other cultures. Feel free to denounce Christianity, but don't dare say anything negative about Islam, etc. Though this movie doesn't overtly trash a European culture, it does cheapen it and is more visible than the worse attacks due to being a massive international movie production.


I'm of largely German ancestry, with a bit of Swedish, and so I know for a fact that my ancestors worshiped northern gods like Thor/Donar/Thunor, and Odin/Wodan/Oden. But I still say this is just a tempest in a tea pot. It is just a comic book, fer crimmony sake!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If its "just" a comic book then it doesn't have to champion equal rights and PC BS by editing Norse Mythology to include extraneous black people, because nobody will be taking it seriously, no?
It should be left as is.


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28 Dec 2010, 8:40 pm

Macbeth wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
theexternvoid wrote:
Let's see someone make cheapening Hindu gods as action figures with Morgan Freeman playing Krishna, Brad Pitt playing Balrama, and Jet Li playing Vishnu and watch the defenders of this movie howl in protest at the insensitivity.

One complaint is that were it reversed then you'd have Rev. Al and company screaming a fit. For example, a remake of Blade with Van Dam or Jet Li as Blade. Maybe they'd let that slide since it's a silly comic (which "Thor" is not). How about a fictional story loosely based on the life of Louis Armstrong with a caucasian trumpeter as the protagonist? What about a movie based on traditional African folk tales and myths with caucasians portraying the characters? I think that Rev. Al & co. would find that disrespectful to the African culture.

Some people are offended at this because they honestly believe in these gods and worship them just as Christians worship Christ, and weren't too happy with the comic book to begin with. These gods have physical descriptions in the myths, and Heimall is the palest of all the gods, Thor is a red head, etc. (They are not like the Christian god and aren't able to take on any form. Most pre-conceived notions you have about what a god is probably only apply to the Christian god.) So to them it'd be as disrespectful as Mel Gibson casting Jackie Chan as Christ in "The Passion" would have been to Christians.

Others are offended because they value European cultures, which is why it's not just a silly comic; it's based on an important European culture. They observe that in a multi-cultural society, every culture is expected to be respected except European cultures, which are socially acceptable to trash. Focus on the bad things European explorers did and never the good, but never speak of the bad things done in other cultures. Feel free to denounce Christianity, but don't dare say anything negative about Islam, etc. Though this movie doesn't overtly trash a European culture, it does cheapen it and is more visible than the worse attacks due to being a massive international movie production.


I'm of largely German ancestry, with a bit of Swedish, and so I know for a fact that my ancestors worshiped northern gods like Thor/Donar/Thunor, and Odin/Wodan/Oden. But I still say this is just a tempest in a tea pot. It is just a comic book, fer crimmony sake!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If its "just" a comic book then it doesn't have to champion equal rights and PC BS by editing Norse Mythology to include extraneous black people, because nobody will be taking it seriously, no?
It should be left as is.


All I can tell you is, if the movie offends you so much, don't go see it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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29 Dec 2010, 12:14 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
theexternvoid wrote:
Let's see someone make cheapening Hindu gods as action figures with Morgan Freeman playing Krishna, Brad Pitt playing Balrama, and Jet Li playing Vishnu and watch the defenders of this movie howl in protest at the insensitivity.

One complaint is that were it reversed then you'd have Rev. Al and company screaming a fit. For example, a remake of Blade with Van Dam or Jet Li as Blade. Maybe they'd let that slide since it's a silly comic (which "Thor" is not). How about a fictional story loosely based on the life of Louis Armstrong with a caucasian trumpeter as the protagonist? What about a movie based on traditional African folk tales and myths with caucasians portraying the characters? I think that Rev. Al & co. would find that disrespectful to the African culture.

Some people are offended at this because they honestly believe in these gods and worship them just as Christians worship Christ, and weren't too happy with the comic book to begin with. These gods have physical descriptions in the myths, and Heimall is the palest of all the gods, Thor is a red head, etc. (They are not like the Christian god and aren't able to take on any form. Most pre-conceived notions you have about what a god is probably only apply to the Christian god.) So to them it'd be as disrespectful as Mel Gibson casting Jackie Chan as Christ in "The Passion" would have been to Christians.

Others are offended because they value European cultures, which is why it's not just a silly comic; it's based on an important European culture. They observe that in a multi-cultural society, every culture is expected to be respected except European cultures, which are socially acceptable to trash. Focus on the bad things European explorers did and never the good, but never speak of the bad things done in other cultures. Feel free to denounce Christianity, but don't dare say anything negative about Islam, etc. Though this movie doesn't overtly trash a European culture, it does cheapen it and is more visible than the worse attacks due to being a massive international movie production.


I'm of largely German ancestry, with a bit of Swedish, and so I know for a fact that my ancestors worshiped northern gods like Thor/Donar/Thunor, and Odin/Wodan/Oden. But I still say this is just a tempest in a tea pot. It is just a comic book, fer crimmony sake!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If its "just" a comic book then it doesn't have to champion equal rights and PC BS by editing Norse Mythology to include extraneous black people, because nobody will be taking it seriously, no?
It should be left as is.


All I can tell you is, if the movie offends you so much, don't go see it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Yes, I should silently concur that what the studio has done is right, thus giving them tacit assent to keep re-writing history, mythology and reality until popular culture has completely murdered verity. As if U571 wasn't a bad enough insult to history, and Clash Of The Titans Redux a kick in the shiny chronologically absurd armoured balls of mythology.


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29 Dec 2010, 12:20 am

Macbeth wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
theexternvoid wrote:
Let's see someone make cheapening Hindu gods as action figures with Morgan Freeman playing Krishna, Brad Pitt playing Balrama, and Jet Li playing Vishnu and watch the defenders of this movie howl in protest at the insensitivity.

One complaint is that were it reversed then you'd have Rev. Al and company screaming a fit. For example, a remake of Blade with Van Dam or Jet Li as Blade. Maybe they'd let that slide since it's a silly comic (which "Thor" is not). How about a fictional story loosely based on the life of Louis Armstrong with a caucasian trumpeter as the protagonist? What about a movie based on traditional African folk tales and myths with caucasians portraying the characters? I think that Rev. Al & co. would find that disrespectful to the African culture.

Some people are offended at this because they honestly believe in these gods and worship them just as Christians worship Christ, and weren't too happy with the comic book to begin with. These gods have physical descriptions in the myths, and Heimall is the palest of all the gods, Thor is a red head, etc. (They are not like the Christian god and aren't able to take on any form. Most pre-conceived notions you have about what a god is probably only apply to the Christian god.) So to them it'd be as disrespectful as Mel Gibson casting Jackie Chan as Christ in "The Passion" would have been to Christians.

Others are offended because they value European cultures, which is why it's not just a silly comic; it's based on an important European culture. They observe that in a multi-cultural society, every culture is expected to be respected except European cultures, which are socially acceptable to trash. Focus on the bad things European explorers did and never the good, but never speak of the bad things done in other cultures. Feel free to denounce Christianity, but don't dare say anything negative about Islam, etc. Though this movie doesn't overtly trash a European culture, it does cheapen it and is more visible than the worse attacks due to being a massive international movie production.


I'm of largely German ancestry, with a bit of Swedish, and so I know for a fact that my ancestors worshiped northern gods like Thor/Donar/Thunor, and Odin/Wodan/Oden. But I still say this is just a tempest in a tea pot. It is just a comic book, fer crimmony sake!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


If its "just" a comic book then it doesn't have to champion equal rights and PC BS by editing Norse Mythology to include extraneous black people, because nobody will be taking it seriously, no?
It should be left as is.


All I can tell you is, if the movie offends you so much, don't go see it.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Yes, I should silently concur that what the studio has done is right, thus giving them tacit assent to keep re-writing history, mythology and reality until popular culture has completely murdered verity. As if U571 wasn't a bad enough insult to history, and Clash Of The Titans Redux a kick in the shiny chronologically absurd armoured balls of mythology.


While I agree that the Clash Of The Titans remake was an assault on not only mythology, but good cinema, we have freedom of expression in this country. And that includes making sh***y movies. Trust me, the Thor movie will pass quickly enough, and with it the black Heimdal.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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29 Dec 2010, 12:25 am

Marvel's Thor story bears zero resemblance to Norse mythology except for gods' names. In a way, it is not different from Disney's Hercules, and if Hercules can have brunettes for muses, Thor can have a black guy for Norse god.

And there is no proof whatsoever they did it for race equality purposes or "racism towards the white" (I loled) most likely the whole point is to cause a manufactroversy. Every time you see videos on youtube complaining about this or blog posts or forum posts, it is advertising the movie. I for one did not know a Thor movie was even in the works until I started getting over-bombarded with people ranting about this everywhere...

Edit: Oh: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... asgard.php

Edit: Forget about Hercules, consider freaking "The emperor's new groove". If Disney can make a movie in which Incas dance disco, Marvel can have a black Norse god.


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29 Dec 2010, 1:13 am

Meh, looks like typical stunt casting from where I'm at, sort of like all the female and minority presidents that Hollywood seems to love so much. Someone gets to feel good about how open minded they are, and snares some free advertising for their film to boot. That being said, I completely agree that there would be widespread outrage if the creative casting had gone the other way, there is definitely a double standard at work though not a particularly harmful one IMHO.


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29 Dec 2010, 8:45 pm

SPARTAN-113 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Actually, I would argue that what they are doing is using Political Correctness to justify racism towards whites.

Even worse. I vilify political correctness, which is a demonic cancer in our society that instills fear and represses free expression, and reverse-discrimination is bad as well.


It is discrimination, just towards a different ethnicity.

@ Vexcalibur

Actually, Thor is supposed to be a Viking God in the Marvel Universe, have you ever even read any Thor comics?



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29 Dec 2010, 11:19 pm

Thor is loosely inspired by a viking god, but he is a super hero. Have YOU read the comics AND are also familiar with the norse mythology? Thor is to marvel what Hercules is to Disney.

As a parallel, let's say I make a comic book in which Jesus decides to come back to earth to... fight crime and he wears a horned/winged helmet (something that neither vikings nor Jesus have ever worn) . Then Jesus joins a super hero team that includes a soldier, a guy that can turn into a giant, a woman that can shrink and fly and a green mass of rage. Then satan joins a super villain team with other guys that have giant robots and bio-engineering experiments among thing. Now, imagine the Japanese getting offended because a John the baptist character that sometimes acts as a side-kick is being performed by a Chinese guy instead of a Jew.


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30 Dec 2010, 12:10 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
Thor is loosely inspired by a viking god, but he is a super hero. Have YOU read the comics AND are also familiar with the norse mythology? Thor is to marvel what Hercules is to Disney.

As a parallel, let's say I make a comic book in which Jesus decides to come back to earth to... fight crime and he wears a horned/winged helmet (something that neither vikings nor Jesus have ever worn) . Then Jesus joins a super hero team that includes a soldier, a guy that can turn into a giant, a woman that can shrink and fly and a green mass of rage. Then satan joins a super villain team with other guys that have giant robots and bio-engineering experiments among thing. Now, imagine the Japanese getting offended because a John the baptist character that sometimes acts as a side-kick is being performed by a Chinese guy instead of a Jew.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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30 Dec 2010, 1:56 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
Thor is loosely inspired by a viking god, but he is a super hero. Have YOU read the comics AND are also familiar with the norse mythology? Thor is to marvel what Hercules is to Disney.

As a parallel, let's say I make a comic book in which Jesus decides to come back to earth to... fight crime and he wears a horned/winged helmet (something that neither vikings nor Jesus have ever worn) . Then Jesus joins a super hero team that includes a soldier, a guy that can turn into a giant, a woman that can shrink and fly and a green mass of rage. Then satan joins a super villain team with other guys that have giant robots and bio-engineering experiments among thing. Now, imagine the Japanese getting offended because a John the baptist character that sometimes acts as a side-kick is being performed by a Chinese guy instead of a Jew.


Are you claiming to have read the comics? I'm not sure your wordings a bit ambiguous.

Also Thor is a god in the comics. Canonically he is a Norse god. Which is what I think he was referring to. Also the two characterizations of mythology you have compared are of a quality that differs so much between the two that some might consider your analogy insulting.