What Jehova's Witnesses believe (animated short)

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Vexcalibur
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21 Jan 2011, 8:42 pm

HereComesTheRain wrote:
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If it's not something you want to discuss, I can understand that. There is plenty of "testimony" from non-Christians who were once active in church when they were young and left, some just deciding that it's all hokey and others who had horrible experiences. I'm not looking to paint a negative light on Witnesses beyond disagreeing with their doctrine. But it would be interesting to hear what it's like from the perspective of someone who once was a part of the organization and left.


It's like living in the Soviet Union.

But without alcohol.


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21 Jan 2011, 9:33 pm

I'll let Jehovah speak to all of you in his own inspired words from his Bible. These words are directed to you:

(Romans 1:21) although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their unintelligent heart became darkened.

(Matthew 23:28) In that way YOU also, outwardly indeed, appear righteous to men, but inside YOU are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

(Matthew 13:15) For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes; that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back, and I heal them.’

(Zechariah 7:11,12) But they kept refusing to pay attention, and they kept giving a stubborn shoulder, and their ears they made too unresponsive to hear. And their heart they set as an emery stone to keep from obeying the law and the words that Jehovah of armies sent by his spirit

(2 Corinthians 4:3,4) If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

(2 Corinthians 3:15) In fact, down till today whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their hearts.

(Ephesians 4:18) while they are in darkness mentally, and alienated from the life that belongs to God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the insensibility of their hearts.

(1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons,

(2 Peter 3:3-6) For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.” For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God;

(Matthew 24:37-39) For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away

(Matthew 5:45) YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous.

(Ezekiel 33:11) “As I am alive,” is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, “I take delight, not in the death of the wicked one, but in that someone wicked turns back from his way and actually keeps living. Turn back, turn back from YOUR bad ways, for why is it that YOU should die

(2 Thessalonians 3:2) [unfortunately] faith is not a possession of all people...

(Hebrews 11:1) Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.

(John 4:24) God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.



Last edited by kxmode on 21 Jan 2011, 10:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Vexcalibur
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21 Jan 2011, 10:17 pm

You are right!

I'll become a Lutheran!


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Kraichgauer
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21 Jan 2011, 11:35 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
You are right!

I'll become a Lutheran!


If you're serious, I'll vouch for ya; I'm a life long Lutheran, and happy. :)
In all honesty though, I'm uncomfortable with proselytizing, as can come across as shoving religion down one's throat - and it often is.

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22 Jan 2011, 2:34 am

kxmode wrote:
I'll let Jehovah speak to all of you in his own inspired words from his Bible. These words are directed to you:

(Romans 1:21) although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their unintelligent heart became darkened.

(Matthew 23:28) In that way YOU also, outwardly indeed, appear righteous to men, but inside YOU are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

(Matthew 13:15) For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes; that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back, and I heal them.’

(Zechariah 7:11,12) But they kept refusing to pay attention, and they kept giving a stubborn shoulder, and their ears they made too unresponsive to hear. And their heart they set as an emery stone to keep from obeying the law and the words that Jehovah of armies sent by his spirit

(2 Corinthians 4:3,4) If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

(2 Corinthians 3:15) In fact, down till today whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their hearts.

(Ephesians 4:18) while they are in darkness mentally, and alienated from the life that belongs to God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the insensibility of their hearts.

(1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons,

(2 Peter 3:3-6) For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation’s beginning.” For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God;

(Matthew 24:37-39) For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away

(Matthew 5:45) YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous.

(Ezekiel 33:11) “As I am alive,” is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, “I take delight, not in the death of the wicked one, but in that someone wicked turns back from his way and actually keeps living. Turn back, turn back from YOUR bad ways, for why is it that YOU should die

(2 Thessalonians 3:2) [unfortunately] faith is not a possession of all people...

(Hebrews 11:1) Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.

(John 4:24) God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.


So how do your disjointed quotes from the bible, a book which few of us actually believe in, add to your argument?



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22 Jan 2011, 4:48 am

Interesting. I was going to mention the whole Pyramids thing, but Nambo already explained that, so thanks.

I knew a Witness girl at school. She seemed very much brainwashed by the whole thing. I felt sorry for her that she didn't get to celebrate Christmas or birthdays with the rest of us, and that she got dragged round people's doorsteps on Sunday mornings.

I've also read stuff by ex-Witnesses that gives something of a disturbing picture. I recall one book - don't remember the author's name, sorry - where the woman, who'd grown up as a JW, met a non-JW man and fell in love with him. When her parents found out, they dragged both of them to the elders, or whatever they're called, to be thoroughly vetted and to more or less force the young chap into becoming a JW himself before they could get married. Because they'd been having a full relationship, this included both of them having to stand up in front of the congregation and tell them all, in detail, what 'sins' they'd committed in bed together.

She also mentioned, re Armageddon, that all the 'works of man' will be destroyed. It's not made absolutely clear from the video what this means, but what she said she was told was that nothing humans have done, made or achieved will survive. So, not a word of Shakespeare, not a note of Bach (or The Beatles for that matter), not one fragment of the Parthenon will remain - because all creative works, being made by corrupt mankind, were inherently worthless. That's over and above the destruction of hundreds of millions of actual human lives because they don't fit a particular set of beliefs, of course. Chilling.

As the demon Crowley says in Good Omens: "If that's your idea of a morally acceptable time..."


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22 Jan 2011, 5:32 am

The issue I have with JWs relates directly to their theology and claims relating to nature of my own faith. Many make claims, based on the same scripture as my own that directly contradict those same words. They then further claim that I am an apostate and that I will be destroyed; I find this totally abhorrent in relation to our mutual beliefs about the loving nature of God.

Also this idea that all works will be destroyed is a bit silly. I personally think one gets closest to the Devine in music and other forms of art. The moving speeches of Dr. King, the fortitude of St. Thomas More, all of these things are, at least to me, evidence of the Devine in mankind. Now I do not believe for a second that man is justified before the eyes of God for it's works, but we certainly show evidence for the love and trust God has for us.

Now there may one day be a new heaven and a new earth, I like to think that Beethoven will write the music, Da Vinci will paint the streets and Frank Lloyd Write will build the houses. That to me sounds a whole lot better than the destructive vision I am confronted with by JWs.


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07 May 2011, 10:45 pm

Seriously people. Do you have nothing else to do in your pathetic lives than hate on religion? You kind of people make me sick. Why not keep the peace? Let people live their own life they way they want. Also, half of you have spelled it wrong. Its JEHOVAH. Not Jehova.

Besides, half of the things you guys are saying about them isn't even true. Beleive me, I'd know. I was raised a witness, left for 3 or 4 years as a teenager, and now I am one again. It's not that thay aren't allowed to celebrate birthdays, etc... they also don't want to. Don't pity them because they aparently 'miss out' on fun, because they don't. We have lots of other fun. We live normal lives beleive it or not. We get married, we go to 'church' like millions ofother people do, we shop, we have parties, we listen to music, we have fun. We actually take the bible pretty seriously, and live by its standards, meaning, we dont sleep around, we dont do any harm to our body like excessive drinking or doing drugs, smoking, tattoos etc.


Matthew 24:14. Read it in you own bible. Tell me which religions actually are doing that? Its a tie between Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.

If you really wanna know what make Jehovah's Witnesses right, just message me. Or answer the door next time they come knocking.

Also, I do beleive Jehovah's Witnesses are the true religion, and I follow what the bible says about loving your neighbors, thats why I don't bash other religions, or races!



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08 May 2011, 12:27 am

ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:
She also mentioned, re Armageddon, that all the 'works of man' will be destroyed. It's not made absolutely clear from the video what this means, but what she said she was told was that nothing humans have done, made or achieved will survive. So, not a word of Shakespeare, not a note of Bach (or The Beatles for that matter), not one fragment of the Parthenon will remain - because all creative works, being made by corrupt mankind, were inherently worthless. That's over and above the destruction of hundreds of millions of actual human lives because they don't fit a particular set of beliefs, of course. Chilling.

As the demon Crowley says in Good Omens: "If that's your idea of a morally acceptable time..."


What about music produced by JW's themselves? Will there still be records by Micheal Jackson and the Jackson FIve?



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08 May 2011, 12:34 am

91. Long time no spot.

While agreeing at least in the parts of heaven I hang out I want Bach, NOT Beethoven, and Christopher Alexander, not the Archdruid. We can shake hands on Leonardo, though.


It sounds as if our resident Shuhuud are somewhat perturbed, not without some justification. Of course you and I and others we wot of could come out with objections to many points of their creed and exegesis [Matthew 24:14 is arguably not so to be read, and in any case the poster overlooks that Wycliffe and others are doing just that, and that Catholics and Anglicans - not beginning to scratch the surface - have preached and preached in places that have yet to hear iof the Watchtower].

But that is a far cry from certain ones with no interest in or awareness of any theology who fire spitballs at whatever part of any theist is in range.



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08 May 2011, 1:53 pm

rissadc wrote:
Also, half of you have spelled it wrong. Its JEHOVAH. Not Jehova.


Well that depends on where you live, even amongst the JW's






Image


rissadc wrote:
Also, I do beleive Jehovah's Witnesses are the true religion, and I follow what the bible says about loving your neighbors, thats why I don't bash other religions, or races!


My word, that a bit of a fib isnt it?

Here from your very own translation, is what JWs say about other religions:-

“She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a lurking place of every unclean exhalation and a lurking place of every unclean and hated bird!
4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. 6 Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice as much, yes, twice the number of the things she did; in the cup in which she put a mixture put twice as much of the mixture for her. 7 To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.’ 8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong.

Now if thats not bashing other religions, calling them Babylon the Great, I dont know what is?



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09 May 2011, 2:41 pm

Nambo wrote:
My word, that a bit of a fib isnt it?

Here from your very own translation, is what JWs say about other religions:-

“She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a lurking place of every unclean exhalation and a lurking place of every unclean and hated bird!
4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. 6 Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice as much, yes, twice the number of the things she did; in the cup in which she put a mixture put twice as much of the mixture for her. 7 To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.’ 8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong.

Now if thats not bashing other religions, calling them Babylon the Great, I dont know what is?


The Bible tells you exactly what Babylon the Great is if you would only listen.

The book of Revelation contains expressions that are not to be understood literally. (Revelation 1:1) For example, it mentions a woman with the name “Babylon the Great” written on her forehead. This woman is said to be sitting on “crowds and nations.” (Revelation 17:1, 5, 15) Since no literal woman could do this, Babylon the Great must be symbolic. So, what does this symbolic harlot represent?

At Revelation 17:18, the same figurative woman is described as “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” The term “city” indicates an organized group of people. Since this “great city” has control over “the kings of the earth,” the woman named Babylon the Great must be an influential organization that is international in scope. It can rightly be called a world empire. What kind of empire? A religious one. Notice how some related passages in the book of Revelation lead us to this conclusion.

An empire can be political, commercial, or religious. The woman named Babylon the Great is not a political empire because God’s Word states that “the kings of the earth,” or the political elements of this world, “committed fornication” with her. Her fornication refers to the alliances she has made with the rulers of this earth and explains why she is called “the great harlot.”—Revelation 17:1, 2; James 4:4.

Babylon the Great cannot be a commercial empire because the “merchants of the earth,” representing the commercial elements, will be mourning her at the time of her destruction. In fact, both kings and merchants are described as looking at Babylon the Great from “a distance.” (Revelation 18:3, 9, 10, 15-17) Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is, not a political or a commercial empire, but a religious one.

The religious identity of Babylon the Great is further confirmed by the statement that she misleads all the nations by means of her “spiritistic practice.” (Revelation 18:23) Since all forms of spiritism are demon-inspired, it is not surprising that the Bible calls Babylon the Great “a dwelling place of demons.” (Revelation 18:2; Deuteronomy 18:10-12) This empire is also described as being actively opposed to true religion, persecuting “prophets” and “holy ones.” (Revelation 18:24) In fact, Babylon the Great has such deep hatred for true religion that she violently persecutes and even murders “the witnesses of Jesus.” (Revelation 17:6) Hence, this woman named Babylon the Great clearly represents the world empire of false religion, which includes all religions that stand in opposition to Jehovah God.

Source: http://watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_12.htm

So naturally if someone doesn't want to share in Babylon the Great's fate they would heed the words of Revelation 18:4 "Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues." Why? Verse 5 explains: "For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind."


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Last edited by kxmode on 09 May 2011, 2:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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09 May 2011, 2:50 pm

How in the Ineffable Name do your translators get "spiritistic practices" out of pharmakeia?

Never mind. You may well not know, and I can at least reconstruct a scenario.

The Italians said it.



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09 May 2011, 3:21 pm

kxmode wrote:
Nambo wrote:
My word, that a bit of a fib isnt it?

Here from your very own translation, is what JWs say about other religions:-

“She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a lurking place of every unclean exhalation and a lurking place of every unclean and hated bird!
4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. 6 Render to her even as she herself rendered, and do to her twice as much, yes, twice the number of the things she did; in the cup in which she put a mixture put twice as much of the mixture for her. 7 To the extent that she glorified herself and lived in shameless luxury, to that extent give her torment and mourning. For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.’ 8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because Jehovah God, who judged her, is strong.

Now if thats not bashing other religions, calling them Babylon the Great, I dont know what is?


The Bible tells you exactly what Babylon the Great is if you would only listen.

The book of Revelation contains expressions that are not to be understood literally. (Revelation 1:1) For example, it mentions a woman with the name “Babylon the Great” written on her forehead. This woman is said to be sitting on “crowds and nations.” (Revelation 17:1, 5, 15) Since no literal woman could do this, Babylon the Great must be symbolic. So, what does this symbolic harlot represent?

At Revelation 17:18, the same figurative woman is described as “the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” The term “city” indicates an organized group of people. Since this “great city” has control over “the kings of the earth,” the woman named Babylon the Great must be an influential organization that is international in scope. It can rightly be called a world empire. What kind of empire? A religious one. Notice how some related passages in the book of Revelation lead us to this conclusion.

An empire can be political, commercial, or religious. The woman named Babylon the Great is not a political empire because God’s Word states that “the kings of the earth,” or the political elements of this world, “committed fornication” with her. Her fornication refers to the alliances she has made with the rulers of this earth and explains why she is called “the great harlot.”—Revelation 17:1, 2; James 4:4.

Babylon the Great cannot be a commercial empire because the “merchants of the earth,” representing the commercial elements, will be mourning her at the time of her destruction. In fact, both kings and merchants are described as looking at Babylon the Great from “a distance.” (Revelation 18:3, 9, 10, 15-17) Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that Babylon the Great is, not a political or a commercial empire, but a religious one.

The religious identity of Babylon the Great is further confirmed by the statement that she misleads all the nations by means of her “spiritistic practice.” (Revelation 18:23) Since all forms of spiritism are demon-inspired, it is not surprising that the Bible calls Babylon the Great “a dwelling place of demons.” (Revelation 18:2; Deuteronomy 18:10-12) This empire is also described as being actively opposed to true religion, persecuting “prophets” and “holy ones.” (Revelation 18:24) In fact, Babylon the Great has such deep hatred for true religion that she violently persecutes and even murders “the witnesses of Jesus.” (Revelation 17:6) Hence, this woman named Babylon the Great clearly represents the world empire of false religion, which includes all religions that stand in opposition to Jehovah God.

Source: http://watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_12.htm


Back in the days when the Catholic Church pretty much ruled Europe, the following scripture seemed to show that BTG was indeed the Catholic church, 18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

However, when John was transported to the period of relevance to the book of Revelation, it wasnt in the middle ages it was in "The Lords Day" as Iam sure you know. And as you also know, "The Lords day" is now upon us, so who now has a Kingdom over the Kings of the Earth?

The Prime Minister of Britian is the grandson of a Jewish Banker
The leader of the opposition is a Jew, the Speaker is a Jew, 80% of the two main politicol parties are members of "Friends of Israel.
Barroness Tonge, who is in the 3rd party, the Liberals, said in the chamber that both parties are controlled by Israel and she wouldnt be suprised if her own party was also.
David Lloyd George at the turn of the last century stated that the most powerfull man in Britain was Lord Rothschild.
In the previous government the most influencial person was Peter Mandalson, a Jew who holidays every year with the Rothschilds, he was on 80 commitees.

Google members of the American Senate who hold dual Israeli nationalities.
Why do you think no politition ever stops the genecide against the Palestinians?

You wont find many Catholics this days, the Lords Day, that are ruling over the governmnets of the world.

Jesus himself identifies who BTG is, here at Matthew 22 he is talking to the Jewish elite of the dya when he put the following blood guilt on them:-

31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth,

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets

Take note of that sentance, "upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth,
and compare with the discription of BTG at the end of Revelation 18
24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Note its the same blood guilt?, and when did the Catholic church ever stone the prophets?

Now I know you will say false religion is covered by both, so how about the rest of revelation 18 concerning what happens to the worlds economy when BTG is destroyed:-

11 “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore—

14 “They will say, ‘The fruit you longed for is gone from you. All your luxury and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered.’ 15 The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They will weep and mourn 16 and cry out:

“Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off. 18 When they see the smoke of her burning, they will exclaim, ‘Was there ever a city like this great city?’ 19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with weeping and mourning cry out:

“‘Woe! Woe to you, great city,
where all who had ships on the sea
became rich through her wealth!

Now the JWs say that when BTG falls, people will no longer send each other Chistmas cards and this will do the worlds economy great harm, will it? People dont even believe in religion and they still celebrate, they will just call it the winter festival or something, besides, you will still be able to buy a new car or telly or house if religion is banned, the worlds economy will still keep turning.

How much better though do these scriptures apply to the great Jewish Global banking system, all apart from thge Muslims now, run and owned by the likes of the Rithschilds, when that is destroyed, there will be no banks, no money, then the merchants will have cause to weep, the great economies and industrialised nations have all grown wealthy from Jewish banking money.

“Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”

Other Bible say a Harlot, in a Biblical sense a Harlot wasnt so much a prostitute, as one who is married who commits adultery with other men.
Now Iam sure you can recall from your Bible readinng all the times the Jews where described by God as a Harlot?
In one scripture God tells how Israel was a Harlot yet her sister Judah committed even greater acts of Harlotry.
You will remember when ever Israel made alligences with the likes of the King of Egypt for protection, God accused her of commiting fornication.

The truth is, Israel was literally in a marriage covernant with God, the Catholic church and the like where never anything to do with God, they therefore cannot commit adultery against God.

The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.
Whilst Rome may well sit on seven hills, so does Jerusalem.

Revelation 18:- In her heart she boasts,
‘I sit enthroned as queen.
I am not a widow;[c]
I will never mourn.’

You will find a similar claim in Jeremiah I think, applied to Israel.

Revelation 18 “‘Come out of her, my people,’[b]
so that you will not share in her sins,

God people where the Jews.

If you research for yourself, rather than Idolise men who put themselves in the position of Priest between God and man, a position that belongs to Jesus, you will find that today the world is controlled by Jewish banking money and thier mystery Kabbalah religion/ Babylonian Tulmad, that fits the description of who Babylon the great is far more than the teachings of men long dead.

Even Peter when he was going to Jersualem said he was going to "Babylon", for the Jewsih religion had become the Babylonian mystery religion the Jews learned during thier 70 year spell in Babylon itself.

Revelation 2 I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

You might also want to research who is behind the setting up of the "New World Order", which is the One World Government described in Revelation 13 and is a mirror image of its gof, Satan as described in Revelation 12.



AngelRho
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09 May 2011, 9:17 pm

Nambo wrote:
Even Peter when he was going to Jersualem said he was going to "Babylon", for the Jewsih religion had become the Babylonian mystery religion the Jews learned during thier 70 year spell in Babylon itself.

I'm not so sure, Nambo. I think we need to be slow to "blame the Jews." As Yahweh's covenant people, I don't begrudge them a certain amount of entitlement, not even now after the appearance of our Savior Christ. Part of the blessing promised them is they will "lend and never borrow" for as long as they live in obedience. Assuming that you're right and they do have a lot of political and economic power, I say "Good for them!"

One question, though, because I'm unfamiliar with that passage. Where is it written that Peter said he was going to Babylon?

Nambo wrote:
Revelation 2 I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

But this is not written against Jews as a whole. What happened in Smyrna was that a local synagogue was making blasphemous charges against Christians such that they were thrown in jail or killed. They were ethnic Jews alright. But they weren't circumcised "in the heart." Consider Romans 2:28-29: For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, and true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh. On the contrary, a person is a Jew who s one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart--by the Spirit, not the letter. His praise is not from men but from God.

Nambo wrote:
You might also want to research who is behind the setting up of the "New World Order", which is the One World Government described in Revelation 13 and is a mirror image of its gof, Satan as described in Revelation 12.

I dunno, Nambo. Conspiracy theories generally tend to be pretty hokey. Revelation 12 and 13 give no indication of who the founder(s) of the NWO are. If those two chapters indicate Jews are in any way involved, you need to point exactly where it says that or how you've come to that conclusion.



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09 May 2011, 9:26 pm

Unless he means 1 Peter 5 13, "The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son." -but THAT would be quite an exegetical stretch.