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pgd
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23 Jan 2011, 10:48 am

It's pretty clear that the egg comes first - often a white, oval egg - and then, sooner or later, the eggshell is broken and out comes a chicken.

So the egg comes first, the chick second.

So there is no mystery to it unlike the idea that God is one person, two persons, three persons, four persons (a quartet) and so on/a God/a Goddess/Gods/gods/Goddesses/goddesses, etc.

---

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Riddles

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A man must believe in something. I believe I will have another rootbeer.

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naturalplastic
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23 Jan 2011, 11:03 am

But what laid the egg?



ryan93
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23 Jan 2011, 11:06 am

Yeah, in terms of evolution it's an easy problem to solve, but as a pure puzzle it is insoluble

X preceeds Y
Y preceeds X

Which came first? Insoluble


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Natty_Boh
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23 Jan 2011, 11:20 am

Objection 1. It would seem that the chicken came first, for were there no chicken to lay the egg, no egg could be laid.

Objection 2. Further, it has been argued that God could raise up children to Abraham from stones, and thus no progenator is strictly required. An egg could exist first. But the Scriptures are silent on the subject of chicken.

Objection 3. Further, many consider eggs to be the stuff of breakfast food and thus preceding the chicken that is eaten at dinner. But this fails to account for the Southern practice of "chicken and waffles", or the exemplary AM menu at Chick-fil-A.

Sed contra, it seems clear that it is not the beginning but the end that matters, as we are so frequently cautioned to concern ourselves with the latter and not the former. On a well-laden table, fried chicken and deviled egg may co-exist in simultaneous harmony, and both "go to the same place" as the saying of our fathers has it.



ryan93
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23 Jan 2011, 11:29 am

Quote:
On a well-laden table, fried chicken and deviled egg may co-exist in simultaneous harmony, and both "go to the same place" as the saying of our fathers has it.


Yes, the real question isn't "how did we get there?", but "where are we going? Is there a KFC? I like KFC"

In the vein of Saint Hero George W. Bush, I know the human being and chicken can live together peacefully"


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Philologos
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23 Jan 2011, 12:34 pm

The recapitulation alleged in the embryo proves nothing whatever it suggests.

Does yours?



Jonsi
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23 Jan 2011, 2:02 pm

Neither, the question is a paradox.



sartresue
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23 Jan 2011, 2:38 pm

Food for thought topic

I have myself lined up a living chicken and an egg, newly hatched from said chicken at the starting point of a racetrack and then shot off my starter pistol (not aimed at said chicken or egg).

Neither advanced much beyond the opening gate, and the chicken did not make it to the other side. :wink:


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naturalplastic
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23 Jan 2011, 2:47 pm

if you're a creationist the chicken came first.

If you're an evolutionist the egg came first.

The egg being laid by a prehistoric chicken-like fowl that had not yet fully evolved into a chicken.

Perhaps it was laid by a saber toothed chicken!

No, but seriously it wouldve been laid a south east asian jungle fowl that was evolving into a domesticated chicken.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 25 Jan 2011, 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Psiri
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24 Jan 2011, 8:20 pm

The word 'chicken' exists to distinguish between chickens and other animals. That is, between one line of descent and all the others. You can't use it to distinguish between adjacent members within a line of descent.

There never was a time when a non-chicken had a chicken child. On the other hand, all chickens are descended from non-chickens. Evolution is slow and continuous and any dividing line between generations would be arbitrary and meaningless.

Therefore we're stuck with the paradox.


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Maxima
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24 Jan 2011, 8:35 pm

A circle has no beginning.



Dantac
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24 Jan 2011, 8:48 pm

the chicken.

life started as single celled organism and worked its way up evolving into more complex forms.. therefore the first 'chicken' emerged from an egg laid by the creature it evolved from.



Sand
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24 Jan 2011, 10:04 pm

Obviously an angel announced to a virgin tyrannosaurus rex that God would manifest himself in her and she gave birth to a holy chicken.



simon_says
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24 Jan 2011, 11:25 pm

An egg laid by a proto-chicken that contained a chicken embryo was first. But as someone said above, that doesnt make it a chicken's egg and so it may not qualify as being first. The first adult chicken laid the first chicken egg.

But really, it's semantics on another level as what we call species is a pretty soft term anyway. Grizzly bears and polar bears are different species, yet they can still produce viable offspring in the wild. It's just rare. We still say they are different species.

Would the first chicken, born of a proto-chicken's egg, have had time to establish the distinctive range, habits and breeding patterns that would lead modern observers to split it from it's parent species immediately and give it it's own species of one? Probably not. Evolution is about populations.

Just as one redhead with a drinking problem doesnt get you Ireland.



Dantac
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25 Jan 2011, 11:02 am

Sand wrote:
Obviously an angel announced to a virgin tyrannosaurus rex that God would manifest himself in her and she gave birth to a holy chicken.


WIN! 8)



JNathanK
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27 Jan 2011, 3:33 am

The assumptions behind that question are too linear to be taken seriously.