Did Moses really have two horns on his head?

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pgd
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02 Feb 2011, 11:30 am

Did Moses really have two horns on his head? There is a famous marble statue of Moses in Rome (by Michelangelo) which shows Moses with two horns.



ruveyn
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02 Feb 2011, 11:32 am

pgd wrote:
Did Moses really have two horns on his head? There is a famous marble statue of Moses in Rome (by Michelangelo) which shows Moses with two horns.


The "horns" of Moses is based on a sh*tty translation of scripture from the Hebrew. The Hebrew is "keren ohr" which means beams of light, not horns of light, in this context. Only you Gentiles could come up with something this silly.

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ryan93
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02 Feb 2011, 11:35 am

Quote:
The "horns" of Moses is based on a sh*tty translation of scripture from the Hebrew. The Hebrew is "keren ohr" which means beams of light, not horns of light, in this context. Only you Gentiles could come up with something this silly.


Much more sensible :D


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ruveyn
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02 Feb 2011, 11:36 am

ryan93 wrote:
Quote:
The "horns" of Moses is based on a sh*tty translation of scripture from the Hebrew. The Hebrew is "keren ohr" which means beams of light, not horns of light, in this context. Only you Gentiles could come up with something this silly.


Much more sensible :D


Of course. TNKH (what you heathen call the Old Testament) is a book by Jews for Jews.

ruveyn



waltur
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02 Feb 2011, 1:03 pm

ruveyn wrote:
pgd wrote:
Did Moses really have two horns on his head? There is a famous marble statue of Moses in Rome (by Michelangelo) which shows Moses with two horns.


The "horns" of Moses is based on a sh*tty translation of scripture from the Hebrew. The Hebrew is "keren ohr" which means beams of light, not horns of light, in this context. Only you Gentiles could come up with something this silly.

ruveyn


i've heard it claimed that michelangelo was aware of the mistranslation in the vulgate bible before he put the horns on moses. he might have thought he was being f***ing hilarious. i like to pretend i'm unaware of this when my wife's family drags me to mass and i ask them "why does that guy holding the ten commandments have horns?" you'd think the catholics would stop putting the damn moses-horns in stained glass. then again, why would i be surprised by that?


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DeaconBlues
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02 Feb 2011, 1:25 pm

No, no - those represent his emotional state.

You see, Moses himself admitted he was poorly spoken - apparently, he had a bad stammer. It's hard to impress the ladies if you can't speak clearly to them, as I'm sure many men in here can testify.

Those aren't "horns of light" - he was just horny! :)


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Philologos
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02 Feb 2011, 1:40 pm

That does not quite work.

One might enquire whether there is any kind or relationship between horns on Moses and horns on Alexander dhu-l-qarnayn.

Of course, given the representations of the halo - big time spirit glow - as a frisbee or a floating torus, would horns be a worse artistic handling of the phenomenon?



Philologos
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02 Feb 2011, 2:11 pm

Okay - ruveyn piqued my satiable curtiosity.

Oh, Jerome, my brother, what hast thou done? How are the mighty fallen.

I check the Hebrew Exodus 34 - yes, nice verb with the same root as the noun "horn" - we can discuss the issue of Mediterranean vocabulary another time.

Septuagint and Pshitta - Greek and Syriac - get it right. Jerome's Vulgate - he never did like Hebrew - mistranslates "horned". I have found a few places his scholarship slipped.

At least THIS one did not get perpetuated in English translations - unless it is in Rheims-Douay - anyone know?. Unlike some places Jerome translated correctly but ambiguously and tradition got it wtong and still does.



waltur
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02 Feb 2011, 3:07 pm

Philologos wrote:
Okay - ruveyn piqued my satiable curtiosity.

Oh, Jerome, my brother, what hast thou done? How are the mighty fallen.

I check the Hebrew Exodus 34 - yes, nice verb with the same root as the noun "horn" - we can discuss the issue of Mediterranean vocabulary another time.

Septuagint and Pshitta - Greek and Syriac - get it right. Jerome's Vulgate - he never did like Hebrew - mistranslates "horned". I have found a few places his scholarship slipped.

At least THIS one did not get perpetuated in English translations - unless it is in Rheims-Douay - anyone know?. Unlike some places Jerome translated correctly but ambiguously and tradition got it wtong and still does.


it may not have been perpetuated in english translations, but it has certainly been perpetuated in the stained glass of many modern catholic churches.


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Philologos
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02 Feb 2011, 4:43 pm

I could care less about stained glass, which even for those who enjoy the representations has no status as doctrine.

If carved on the side f my cathedral I see someone HOLDING a cathedral, I do not say, Oh, God empowered him to shrink buildings.

Tradition is tradition. Art is not immune. Consider the idiotic illustrated books portraying young Sambo as genetically African. But it is in the tradition, and except when challenged bu antidenigrators there he is.

Funny that it is insulting that a brave and resourceful boy be portrayed as sharing your ethnicity. My majority ancestors had no qualms about turning Jesus into a blond and Mary into an Italian lass.



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03 Feb 2011, 12:59 am

Philologos wrote:
At least THIS one did not get perpetuated in English translations - unless it is in Rheims-Douay - anyone know?. Unlike some places Jerome translated correctly but ambiguously and tradition got it wtong and still does.


"And when Moses came down from the mount Sinai, he held the two tables of the testimony, and he knew not that his face was horned from the conversation of the Lord." (Taken from this online version of the Doauy-Rheims.) They do add a clarifying footnote: "'Horned'... That is, shining, and sending forth rays of light like horns. "

What are some of the other spots you're thinking of?


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03 Feb 2011, 1:01 am

ruveyn wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
Quote:
The "horns" of Moses is based on a sh*tty translation of scripture from the Hebrew. The Hebrew is "keren ohr" which means beams of light, not horns of light, in this context. Only you Gentiles could come up with something this silly.


Much more sensible :D


Of course. TNKH (what you heathen call the Old Testament) is a book by Jews for Jews.

ruveyn


But it is a book that looks forward to a time when even Gentiles/heathens will seek instruction from it. Isaiah takes up that theme very often.


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Sand
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03 Feb 2011, 2:11 am

Natty_Boh wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
Quote:
The "horns" of Moses is based on a sh*tty translation of scripture from the Hebrew. The Hebrew is "keren ohr" which means beams of light, not horns of light, in this context. Only you Gentiles could come up with something this silly.


Much more sensible :D


Of course. TNKH (what you heathen call the Old Testament) is a book by Jews for Jews.

ruveyn


But it is a book that looks forward to a time when even Gentiles/heathens will seek instruction from it. Isaiah takes up that theme very often.


It is, of course, linguistic symbolism. Naturally, since Moses had been wandering in the desert for years without a girl friend he was horny.



ruveyn
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03 Feb 2011, 6:44 am

Natty_Boh wrote:

But it is a book that looks forward to a time when even Gentiles/heathens will seek instruction from it. Isaiah takes up that theme very often.


You don't need Isaiah. You just need to follow this rule: Never buy at retail.

ruveyn



Natty_Boh
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03 Feb 2011, 11:20 am

ruveyn wrote:
Natty_Boh wrote:

But it is a book that looks forward to a time when even Gentiles/heathens will seek instruction from it. Isaiah takes up that theme very often.


You don't need Isaiah. You just need to follow this rule: Never buy at retail.

ruveyn


:) God sayeth, "Shop at Aldi's?"


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