Looking at one thing and seeing it broken up into components

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Verdandi
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20 Feb 2011, 11:26 pm

So I have this thing that happens somewhat often when I look at an unfamiliar thing or things I don't see routinely: I don't see the thing as what it apparently is, but rather something else that is generally broken up into parts, at which point my brain tries to interpret the parts as whatever they may most resemble.

For a recent example, I was in the Seattle Greyhound terminal today, and there's a colored neon sign for a pho restaurant (Pho Bac) inside the terminal itself. The sign was not lit at the time. Anyway, what I saw when I looked at the sign seemed like a bunch of rubber snakes twisted together before I realized they spelled out words and were not in fact snakes (after I'd looked at them individually without connecting them into a whole).

Another was a closeup of a typewriter with a piece of paper inserted (no keys visible) with the word "Hello" typed out. What I interpreted looked like a white wall with the word "Hello" on it, what looked like a pair of shoes propped against the wall, and a horizontal bar along said wall that one might find in a dance studio.

In both cases, it's not really a reflexive "this is another thing instead of what it is," but I don't see a coherent whole and try to intellectually understand what I'm looking at. What I come up with doesn't make sense in context, but I don't seem to get context at the same time I see something like this.

These are the most recent examples I can recall, but I spend the majority of my time in familiar places lately, which makes this much less likely to happen. It's not a hallucination, I'm not seeing things that aren't there, but failing to properly identify things that are.

On another visual note: Is it normal for vision to be filled with tiny colored dots* all over everything (especially bright white things)? It crossed my mind today by being excessively distracting while I was trying to read a book in that same Greyhound terminal. I don't usually think about it much, except it seems more visible at the moment. I made the mistake of going to a party (which did not go as planned, which meant instead of spending most of the party with someone else, I spent most of it alone, which made it so much worse), and have been overstimulated all weekend - which might have something to do with it?

* Not sure this is the correct word. Sort of like colored TV snow, but not obscuring? Do other people see this? Do NTs see this? I have no idea.



pensieve
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20 Feb 2011, 11:51 pm

That happens to me too. At first I'll look at something and at first see it as something else until the real object just jumps out at me. Could be an attention to detail thing? Not seeing the bigger picture? An associative thinking style?

I get the white noise thing too. But I do get these when I'm not feeling well. I'm not sure whether it is a migraine or a seizure. It could be photophobia. Lately my right eye has been feeling weak too. I was in the shower and at first didn't notice the shower faucet and another time one side my vision was blurred.

Anyway, next time the vision thing happens try to remember whether anything is different, like you have a headache or there's bright lights around.


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20 Feb 2011, 11:53 pm

I can relate to this stuff. To me, those components often feel more essential, like the pixels that form a screen, etc. I am a poet and for a long time, I would receive feedback that my poetry seemed to people like it was one of those things in a magazine where they give you a closeup of an orange or an ant or something and you have to guess what it is, then on the next page it zooms out an gives you the answer, and it's instantly obvious. They said my problem was that I didn't ever let anyone know what the object was. I see what you described as a gift in cases where that kind of logic really helps, like if the parts are behaving independently and doing their own special things. But the thing with the letters, the dots are all doing the same thing (which is forming a phrase or an advertisement). Just try not to get too caught up in it. I think one could spend a long time looking at that stuff and not get anywhere. I've often tried to piece together hidden meanings in things and realize I was "reading too much in."



Verdandi
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21 Feb 2011, 12:06 am

pensieve wrote:
That happens to me too. At first I'll look at something and at first see it as something else until the real object just jumps out at me. Could be an attention to detail thing? Not seeing the bigger picture? An associative thinking style?

I get the white noise thing too. But I do get these when I'm not feeling well. I'm not sure whether it is a migraine or a seizure. It could be photophobia. Lately my right eye has been feeling weak too. I was in the shower and at first didn't notice the shower faucet and another time one side my vision was blurred.

Anyway, next time the vision thing happens try to remember whether anything is different, like you have a headache or there's bright lights around.


I'm really annoyed because I had my phone (with camera) with me and didn't think to take a picture.

I wonder if it does have to do with associative thinking. I know I already have trouble linking up obvious context in many many cases, which also involves not seeing the bigger picture and sometimes attention to detail. Which is to say, I'm not sure where it lies, but I have issues with all three.

I mainly know that I was overstimulated and feeling dizzy from being surrounded by so many people and under fluorescent lights, and I'd unwisely removed my sunglasses to read the book I had with me. Also plenty of noise and a few strong smells. I'd been to a party on Friday night which I still haven't recovered from, and that also contributed.

It wasn't the same kind of dizziness I get from not eating or my migraine auras.

justarandomperson wrote:
I can relate to this stuff. To me, those components often feel more essential, like the pixels that form a screen, etc. I am a poet and for a long time, I would receive feedback that my poetry seemed to people like it was one of those things in a magazine where they give you a closeup of an orange or an ant or something and you have to guess what it is, then on the next page it zooms out an gives you the answer, and it's instantly obvious. They said my problem was that I didn't ever let anyone know what the object was. I see what you described as a gift in cases where that kind of logic really helps, like if the parts are behaving independently and doing their own special things. But the thing with the letters, the dots are all doing the same thing (which is forming a phrase or an advertisement). Just try not to get too caught up in it. I think one could spend a long time looking at that stuff and not get anywhere. I've often tried to piece together hidden meanings in things and realize I was "reading too much in."


That's interesting, about your poetry.

The dots are more in the way than anything else. This isn't the first time they've been in the way, but I tend not to think about them when they're not.

The breaking up of objects into components is something that lasts for a bit before I resolve what it actually is. Sometimes it happens over and over again - like that typewriter photo, I usually have to translate it, but it's already unusual for being a part of a larger object.



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21 Feb 2011, 1:02 am

The difficulty in identifying objects is sometimes called visual aphasia. It can be caused by thyroid problems, epilepsy, migraines, certain types of brain damage, a few other medical conditions, certain processing disorder, and schizophrenia, to name a few things.

As for the dots, they sound like phosphenes. The human vision system has noise. Most people just don't notice it unless they rub their eyes hard or stare at a blank wall or into darkness for a while, because it has always been there.

Never the less, it wouldn't hurt to have your eyes examined.



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21 Feb 2011, 1:34 am

I do this frequently. I see in shapes and light and shadow and it's as if my brain searches for a shape to match to a particular object that I see and then applies that shape to my thinking (example, when I see the shape of a mailbox and think 'woah a giant possum!' because my brain has interpreted this combination of colors and light and darkness in front of me as a live animal and not as a box for incoming and outgoing mail). This applies to other ways of methodical thinking and interpretation also.

Just a few days ago I tried to grab a beam of light from my tabletop thinking it was a pencil.

Not sure if that makes any sense or not. :oops:


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Verdandi
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21 Feb 2011, 1:53 am

Chronos wrote:
The difficulty in identifying objects is sometimes called visual aphasia. It can be caused by thyroid problems, epilepsy, migraines, certain types of brain damage, a few other medical conditions, certain processing disorder, and schizophrenia, to name a few things.


Thyroid? No. Epilepsy? I don't think so. Migraines? I get those but didn't today. Brain damage? No. Schizophrenia? No. Processing disorders? Sensory PD? Or others as well?

Visual aphasia is alexia is acquired through brain injury inability to interpret text? This doesn't usually affect my ability to interpret text. In this one case there were several tubes making up the words, and I saw the tubes but not what they composed.

Quote:
As for the dots, they sound like phosphenes. The human vision system has noise. Most people just don't notice it unless they rub their eyes hard or stare at a blank wall or into darkness for a while, because it has always been there.

Never the less, it wouldn't hurt to have your eyes examined.


That'll be happening anyway on account of identification of my sensory processing issues as a problem.

Apparently what I'm talking about is called visual snow, although I can't find anything that firmly suggests whether it is associated with autism or not (that is, it may be, but it may be migraine related or other things).

And a picture: http://www.visualsnow.com/examples/pict ... -full.html

That's more intense than what I'm seeing but the right idea.

Also found comments linking it to tinnitus, which I also have.



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21 Feb 2011, 2:36 am

Some of the component parts things strikes me as familiar but I can't think of a single example at the moment. Bad memory maybe.

I don't know if I have tinnitus but I do periodically (~1 month) get what sounds like an insect walking on my eardrum. A kind of rhythmic thrumming, as if many little feet were marching along. Tends to happen when lying down iirc. It lasts for less than 10-15 minutes iirc.

Ah, yeah, and my father has 70%-80% of the symptoms of AS and he has Meniere's syndrome, an inner ear condition that includes tinnitus.



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21 Feb 2011, 3:27 am

it is well documented that autistic people see details to big picture. I see things exactly like that all the time. Even familiar things if they get hit by a different light will have to process from the tiniest piece up to the actual item. It took me four full sessions (during my shrink time) to process his office as it was so filled with stuff and I had to map everything in.



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21 Feb 2011, 3:48 am

kfisherx wrote:
it is well documented that autistic people see details to big picture. I see things exactly like that all the time. Even familiar things if they get hit by a different light will have to process from the tiniest piece up to the actual item. It took me four full sessions (during my shrink time) to process his office as it was so filled with stuff and I had to map everything in.


Thank you, yes, that's it.



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21 Feb 2011, 3:50 am

Some symptoms of a brain injury can be apart of AS/autism or other brain disorders.

I have tinnitus. Actually yesterday I was having problems in both ears. My left ears was doing its usual ringing and the right ear had a blowing sensation in it.
I have had migraines and I do have epilepsy or at least something that mimics every symptom of TLE, myoclonus and clonic tonic.
I do think I have a mild form of visual aphasia. Sometimes it takes time for written words to make much sense to me. And not just in comprehension but in recognising letters. It is extremely mild though.

The noise I see in my vision is coloured and it there quite a lot. But during the odd TLE symptoms they show up more and take on a wave like structure. I did say I was having hallucinations.

eudaimonia wrote:
Just a few days ago I tried to grab a beam of light from my tabletop thinking it was a pencil.

Not sure if that makes any sense or not. :oops:

I do this too.


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21 Feb 2011, 9:20 am

kfisherx wrote:
it is well documented that autistic people see details to big picture. I see things exactly like that all the time. Even familiar things if they get hit by a different light will have to process from the tiniest piece up to the actual item. It took me four full sessions (during my shrink time) to process his office as it was so filled with stuff and I had to map everything in.



Very interesting. I do experience "this" (as in Verandi's O.P.) but not to this degree^, and wow.

As a side note: Maybe this is how we ( as infants would see) the world, and I've always believed this was a virtue or an asset in life. I mean it's an ability to look at things 'anew' (for the first time again) without all the filters that people acquire on their timeline of life. "They" get stuck on a static track of thinking, and reality isn't merely a concept, it's the real deal, and there isn't anything existing outside of this box.

I remember hearing a negative comment when growing up," everyday seems like it's your first day on earth." True, I wake up to a new world everyday.



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21 Feb 2011, 9:49 am

Quote:
On another visual note: Is it normal for vision to be filled with tiny colored dots* all over everything (especially bright white things)? It crossed my mind today by being excessively distracting while I was trying to read a book in that same Greyhound terminal. I don't usually think about it much, except it seems more visible at the moment. I made the mistake of going to a party (which did not go as planned, which meant instead of spending most of the party with someone else, I spent most of it alone, which made it so much worse), and have been overstimulated all weekend - which might have something to do with it?

* Not sure this is the correct word. Sort of like colored TV snow, but not obscuring? Do other people see this? Do NTs see this? I have no idea.


Funny you should this because I had someone give me a plausible explanation for it.
I can see different shades of purples and red in what others see as a pitch black night sky.
Puzzled me for years, it's not just the night sky, it is indiscriminate as to what is pixelated at times, I used to suffer a sensory overload from this and get distracted trying to work out what it was.
Anyway I was talking to somebody (an acquaintance) about it and he suggested the possibility that it might just be me being oversensitive to the light and the pixelation is created by the light hitting blood vessels in the eyes or that some light receptors in the eye appear more sensitive than others, and giving me the impression that it's bitty, pixelated, or off colour.
So a white sheet of paper might look like it has grey patches, and the white appears really gritty like sandpaper.

I don't know if this is true but it is the best explanation I've had.



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21 Feb 2011, 10:25 am

I can relate. A recent example for me was a sign I had looked at countless times. It's on the corner where the road to my place meets a main road. I was so focused on the parts, that I mistook the big picture. I thought it was some kind of automotive part.A few weeks ago, I realized that it was a generic human figure riding a motorcycle. :-/



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21 Feb 2011, 10:32 am

Mdyar wrote:
kfisherx wrote:
it is well documented that autistic people see details to big picture. I see things exactly like that all the time. Even familiar things if they get hit by a different light will have to process from the tiniest piece up to the actual item. It took me four full sessions (during my shrink time) to process his office as it was so filled with stuff and I had to map everything in.



Very interesting. I do experience "this" (as in Verandi's O.P.) but not to this degree^, and wow.


It is good and bad. In my job, I am able to see super detail and on one job could see "out" (AKA bad) pixel clusters on screens that were less than 5 large (normal people cannot see anything less than 5 normally). I could find defects in the pictures and the way our projectors where outputting. Same thing with audio. The super hypersensitivity helped me in many of my jobs.

That said, it is also the thing of overload and meltdowns. Besides taking me 4 sessions to look around in my shrink's office, I will often just freeze in stores as I try to map things in. I am confused in visually busy places all the time. That is one of the reason we (as a people) insist on routine and sameness. It save us from having to process everything.

I also know that not all Aspies are the same wrt the amounts of detail we see. My kid (the one I am mentoring who is 13-years old) does not see to quite the same level as me without great effort. He can see the bigger pictures a lot easier.



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21 Feb 2011, 10:45 am

Yes, I have trouble working out the meanings behind the details. I think it was Frith who first called it a problem of "jigsawing together the pieces." I often see shots on TV that make no sense to me at all. And I've studied lots of subjects carefully, yet had no feeling of really understanding them, even though when asked questions about it I can usually demonstrate that I know the stuff.......I presume that's because for me the subject is a string of unrelated observations, so when I try to check my understanding by asking myself "what's the subject all about?" then I have no answer. If I were able to create an overview of the subject as I studied it, I'd have a set of cues and I'd be able to use them to reconstruct the knowledge in a properly organised form.